179 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

i want the mechwarrior 2/3 critical and tonnage system with logical restrictions, and weapon type restrictions similar to the mechwarrior 4 system.

A blend of all 3 will work well i think.

[Xaks]

No mech lab, no Xaks.

This is non-negotiable. And not just a couple variants, either. If I can't refit on my terms (and not free, either, with restrictions and a cost) then I won't sub.

[Yeach]

ThunderFox, on 01 November 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:

I'm not saying "kill choice" but if it existed at all I would like to see it as a realistic mechanic, not just a system to buy your mech-avatar and do whatever with it. MW4's slot system was slightly better but you still rarely saw people use stock designs. I'd rather have a system where the Stock mechs had a purpose beyond dust collection.

Im thinking why people rarely used stock mechs is the over-nerfing of the medium laser in MW4 as a response to MW3. Small laser in MW4 essential useless and in MW3 overpowered.

I think stock mechs do have their uses as most stock mechs have a balance damage profile.
Take the Centurion or the MadCat; both have a damage profile for all range
LRMs for long-range
Large Lasers / Autocannon for mid-range
Lasers / machine guns for close range

I think in order to have stock mechs (with balance loadouts) to have more useage is
1. Have a higher penalty (ie payout, customization cost) for customizing a mech
2. Randomize terrain for vs matches; city vs open maps; do you gamble and focus on one-range or do you go for the jack-of-all trades mech?

And to a pervious poster, boats already exist in Battletech
ie Nova, Supernova (laser boats)
Jagermech, Rifleman (gunboats)
Longbow, Archer (to a degree) (missile-boats)

[IS Wolf]

BatWing, on 01 November 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

BOATS are bad in general. They can be laser, cannons or missiles. if they are boats to me they are wrong. mechlab should seriously limit the possibility to create boats. Doesnt matter about Omni configs. they should have serious limits as well.

The Charger (CGR-1A1) is a Laser boat, the Javelin is either a Missile (JVN-10N, JVN-10P) or a Laser boat (JVN-10F, JVN-11A).
The Stinger could be a Laser boat (STG-3G, STG-3Gb). So could the Jenner (JR7-F and JR7-A). The Wolfhound was always a Laser boat (WLF-1 and WLF-2). The Catapult (CPLT-A1) is a Missile Boat.

So saying that boats are wrong, even while there are numerous canon examples seems rather off.

BatWing, on 01 November 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

A Catapult is a Catapult. To me, removing the missile launchers to replace with PPCs or ACs or LL is an abomination. I don t care if someone did it in the past. The original Battletech didn t have that ****. You should be able to modify missile settings, smaller or bigger racks, that make sense. Artemis or LRM or SRM that make sense.

Following this example, each one Chassis should maintain its "character".

CPLT-K2, no LRM15s, but 2 PPCs instead, also 2 machine guns, next to the medium lasers. (Record Sheets: 3039, p. 149)

Again, a canon machine.
So your claim that the Tabletop Battletech didn't have such machines is incorrect.

It's like saying that a Hunchback is only a Hunchback if it has an Autocannon, while the HBK-4P (Record Sheets: 3039, p. 128) and HBK-4SP (Record Sheets: 3039, p. 129), and HBK-5P (Master Unit List: Battle Values, p. 111) are examples to the contrary.

[Mousehold]

Adhering to the design of any past Mechwarrior game, or to the Battletech board game, is just begging to flop. I grew up playing the games and was a huge fan through middle school and high school, but they were designed decades ago and they just don't hold up today. They are, quite frankly, awful games once you look past the veil of nostalgia.

"Should we have a mech lab?" This is not the right question to ask.The mech lab is not an important issue. It's tangential to the real issue: creating a Mechwarrior game with a diverse array of interesting mechs to pilot.

Far more important than a mech lab is making sure every mech in the game has a unique role that makes it worth using. If there is never a reason to use an Uller instead of a Mad Cat, never any reason to use a Hunchback instead of an Atlas, then we might as well not even bother having anything but Mad Cats and Atlases in the game.

[Odin]

A Mechlab is a musthave feature.
But! to keep this game alive, it should be very limited.

[Comstar]

Well I would like the full customisation system as this is what for me made Battletech then onto the Mechwarrior games as well.

I agree from game balance this could lead to min maxing on mechs but the customised parts could be fragile in game and become unserviceable with less damage than would normally be the case, this could be done on how much modification your Frankenstein has ie removing two small lasers and fitting a medium instead would be ok but taking them out and replacing with a large laser then swapping other things out then it would have more conversion points that would cause issues in game play 'glass cannon' like.

But as there are canon variants they could be available as well as a more reliable fix in other words a normal mech 'x' has a medium laser and an srm2 in one arm with ammo but another variant has a large laser so swapping the arm over would be a normal conversion but the other arm would be the same as the original design so custom with cutting away the arm to fit so a low conversion factor so less likely to go down in game play!

Well that was a bit of a ramble but well see what they do! what ever they do some people are going to be upset!

Oh just thought of another one you could have a Solaris set up just for heavily custom mechs so that may be another option so normal game play be limited then for crazy stuff go to the arena for a fight!

Cheers Matt

[Venkman]

One thing that I think we have to realize is that a game like this gets constantly rebalanced. I'm right there with all the other people who's gut reaction to mech modification is horrified memories of nothing but boated out Shadowcats in MW3. But even if that turns out to be a viable design in this game, we have to expect that the devs are going to nerf it pretty quickly.

Personally I like the idea of a limited and/or costly Mechlab.

[Sgt V3n0m]

I think that there should be a Mechlab, but it should be like Iron Grip: Marauders meets World of Tanks, where you need to win battles to get the materials and C-Bills and the like, but awful long time to research the new equipment. But because it's a F2P, make it where you can pay to have a 20% bonus or something to loot, resources, research time and the like.

Just try to not make it where you can buy ungodly uberpwn weapons and mechs. That would make me sad face.

Thoughts?

Edited by Sgt_V3n0m, 01 November 2011 - 04:26 PM.

[avatar]

As some people noted, it could well be possible to tie the Mechlab into factory planets. You managed to get your hands to a totally sweet assault chassis and want to modify it to your tastes? Well, all fine, just pay to move to Hesperus (or some other world with advanced factories) and pay for the refit. Of course, some stuff can be done on the field, some at the dropship, so you do have customization ability on the field (and preferably, a theorycrafting option to play with dream fits), but the more serious modifications could require a factory.

One big hurdle for PGI is the visual fidelity. At least in the way old trailer they wished for things like muzzle glow after PPC shots. What if that Warhammer is a -6R retrofit into large lasers? Model change? Of course, I expect that no true FrankenMechs can be made, i.e. you cannot have a Wolfman hybrid (part Wolverine, part Rifleman) type 'Mechs. We'll see what the magical people known as devs have in store, though guessing, of course, is fun.

[redreaper]

id prefer it to be like mw4 if it is in the game

[Aneirin]

Definitely need a mechlab, also need a "mission" for testing out the variants before taking them against other players. Something like a ffa on solaris vii would be perfect.

[fearfactory]

Drop the mechlab. Too much min/maxing leads to bad things real quick (ie Laser/PPC boats).

[Phoenixfire]

LIke the limited hard points for specific type of weaponry but should have more detail like choosing CASE and where you put the ammo and heat sinks like MW3. Lets you tweak your mech performance until it feels just right.

And while I am not a big fan of any boat, there are examples of boats being used in the canon. Aiden Pryde used a missle boat Thor(Summoner) in one of his Bloodname battles. The battles themselves need to lend to using a diverse mech configuration ala better terrain for cover(almost all maps in MW4 were pretty flat and had no cover to speak of), longer time to acheive lock, easier loss of lock, LRM's that act as individual missles so some in a volley can miss while others hit and LRM's that can't make a 90 degree turn in Midair so they can be dodged(MW4 missles seemed like they could turn completly around and hit you in the rear if they missed the first time and were guaranteed hits even if you made a quick turn once lock was acheived). Rarely in the books does a full missle volley actually hit the opposing mech.

Edited by Phoenixfire, 01 November 2011 - 04:59 PM.

[Aleksandr]

"Cons
leads to min/max mech designs"

To me that is a huge plus. Who wants to have battles with 4 different mech types across 100 models? Let's get some variability.

[Redtail]

I would support a version of the 'mechlab even more limited than that of MechWarrior 4.
Field refits with extremely limited space and function alottments would add more of an element of operating skill to the game, particularly as it's been said before if players have to purchase or salvage weapons.

Your 'mech's LBX AC10 just got trashed?
You've got a salvaged AC5 that might fit in the socket and there's a tiny bot of extra space for some more ammo, but not the right shape to fit that SRM4 or the right power supply for a laser of any kind. It's better than nothing.

[Marauder3D]

Well, for instant action, I would impose a limited mech lab.

Until we get Omnis, full weapon swaps should be out.

From the TRO's you see up to like 5 variants for each mech type. So these variants should be offered.

If a variant doesn't suit someone, then let them BUY changes in a mech lab. Custom mechs shouldn't be able to mess with engine or armor, and should make sensible changes to weapons. Furthermore, custom mechs should have an expense multiplier.

Want a Warhammer D? 6 Million Cbills. Want your custom non variant Warhammer? 8 million.

Canon-freaks like myself are satisfied, and folks who want a mech lab are satisfied. If you can pay through the nose to have custom variants, have at it I say. Just no Atlases with Paper armor and 3 Ac20's.

[Pht]

Wow. Ok, hate to re-dupe posts I've got elsewhere, but this thread and the other seem to have taken lives on apart from themselves; and this one, while having less posts, is showing as a hot topic on the front page where the other one isn't.







"Blue" is mislabeled. It should be "equipment" which mostly means you can put heatsinks there, maybe ammo.

Should be pretty straight forwards.

Uses the TT for sizing criticals and weights, uses the mw4 hardpoint concept (modified) to keep 'Mechs unique while allowing for a maximum of customization without turning mechs into different visuals for smiliar sized gun-cabinets on legs (like mw3 did), and some restrictions to stop out-right min-max munchkinization.
And it's intiutive to understand.

Things that those familiar with the MW4 lab and the parent game won't see so obviously:

Don't allow internal structure type to be changed - don't allow engines to be changed (instead, look to the things in Tac Ops, like sprinting, for a wide 'Mech performance envelope). cockpit, gyro, and actuators (hip, arm joints) should not be allowed to be messed with (with the single exclusion of omnimechs with omni arms removing the hand and I think the lower actuators for using ppcs and gauss?).

Omnimechs can't modify their armor or otherwise do anything that would cross over from non-omni areas into omni-slots - otherwise, they're no longer modular, in addition to the above restrictions.

This gives a quick way to resolve penetrating hits and allows for the armor/damage behaviors to be ported with ease in a way that fits the fluidity of a VG with ease, and it stops (as much as the original mechs meant to!) munchkins from lunacy.

Omnimechs might have to be somehow restricted in number, because they'll be (as they should be and as the Lore blurbs them) scary, as far as loadouts are concerned.

One of the other things this would necessarily bring with it is that all the variant chassis of a base chassis (non-omnimech chassis, that is) would actually have to be in the game. There would be a large field to choose from - which would be even more fun if they managed to get the combat setup where they could handle the 'Mech quirks (marauder is supposed to be deadly in combat, that sort of thing).

[xR1pp3Rx]

i liked mw3 mechlab.. and even better were the mobile repair bays

[tyrone dunkirk]

Wow, I'd would really like to see the option to have the mechlab ala MW4 but with a little more free reign.
Or another alternative that I think would be pretty cool is to have factory worlds, where you are able to actually go and place an order for a type of mech you want. Like if you wanted a stock mech you would order from the factory world for X amount of C-Bills and X amount of time, but then, if you wanted to customize that mech, you would order it custom for XX amount of C-Bills, and it would take XX amount of time to get there.
Just an idea....