214 replies to this topic

[Melcyna]

Technically if we want to argue on the merit of electromagnetic devices (including ECM and ECCM)

then PGI's whole idea of ECM concept (and most battletech for that matter) as it works in MWO is flat out wrong since any ECM that jams something through a signal generator can't really obscure the targets detected by the radar or other electromagnetic wave detection mechanism completely, the best they can do is scramble the distance measurement. (which does ****** ALL NOTHING for MWO or any battletech setting for that matter given the short distance in which we fight

[Topsytervy]

hemm sounds good. however the roles recone/pursuit, fire/support, assault/command can be applied to any weight class.

[Vassago Rain]

Are we ever gonna see any of this in the actual game?

[SixstringSamurai]

Vassago Rain, on 28 January 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Are we ever gonna see any of this in the actual game?

Probably not? Since mechs don't even have custom tech trees. Maybe some of it will come with CW but who knows. Unless they do something big in the next month I'm probably just going to step away from this game for a long while. Since stuff like this never matches with anything they put out. It's not that this is a bad game, it has potential, but the game is reaching a stale state really fast.

[The Trice]

Great just great , Hurry it up then

[Buckminster]

Vassago Rain, on 28 January 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Are we ever gonna see any of this in the actual game?

I think part of it is that they are trying to get the actual gameplay down before they really work on what it is that makes "role warfare" work. There are still clearly a lot of bugs in the way the game itself actually runs.

I also think it's becoming clear that the initial idea (role warfare through modules) isn't really working, as modules are prohibitively expensive and only of limited use. Aside from the "capture faster" module, none of them really do anything special that isn't combat related.

[Damien Matashy]

I would not count on the role warfare looking anything like it was described here. The information on the pilot trees to out to be nothing like they were described. so I would not hold my breath.

[CoreHunter]

role warfare... ECM mech or not ECM mech. Choose your role.

[Sayyid]

Buckminster, on 28 January 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

I think part of it is that they are trying to get the actual gameplay down before they really work on what it is that makes "role warfare" work. There are still clearly a lot of bugs in the way the game itself actually runs.

I also think it's becoming clear that the initial idea (role warfare through modules) isn't really working, as modules are prohibitively expensive and only of limited use. Aside from the "capture faster" module, none of them really do anything special that isn't combat related.

I hate to sound like a *****, but to be brutally honest I doubt we will ever see true role warfare, or community warfare for that matter.

The current rate of development and the "problems" incountered by PGI on every patch has not only slowed development it has actually put it behind where it should be at this point.

[Buckminster]

I dunno, maybe I'm the eternal optimist, but I think it's coming. No time soon, as there are some fundamental changes that need to happen before the roles will really work. Looking at the roles as first described:

Scouting – Gathering information as a reconnaissance/stealth unit that gets relayed back to the rest of the friendly force.

For this to really happen we need a few changes. Maps need to be bigger, so that scouting is more than reaching a ridge 15 seconds before the rest of the force. Communication also needs to improve, because (especially in pugs) people don't want to leave themselves vulnerable to type out what they see. Sure, some people coordinate through team speak, but it really needs to be in game, and available to everyone on a given team.

Defense – The defender holds the ground gained by the offensive forces and protects those in need.

Assault – The assault role is for the tactical forward units whose primary role is to seek and destroy.

The problem here is that defense and assault end up as the same thing. We have small maps that really encourage fighting en masse, so you always seem to end up with two mech herds looking for each other. There is no true offense or defense in the games as they typically pan out. You'll occasionally get the small group that rushes to cap, or the team that decides to huddle up at base, but for the most part it's the rush to the fight. A lot of that has to do with the two game styles we have - both teams have objectives that they need to cap *and* defend.

Command – The command role is split into two different levels, lance and company. Lance command falls to those in charge of up to 3 other players and assist in coordinated attacks on key targets. The company commander utilizes the 2 other lance commanders and all information being relayed back to him to make global calls on the battlefield.

Command also needs better in-game communication to be a viable role. Right now you can't easily command other non-teamspeak players, going back to the fact that a lot of players don't want to take the time to type away during a fight. The small maps don't really help here either, as it doesn't really give much time to plan or coordinate. Generally, "commanding" equates to a quick one or two sentence plan at the beginning of a match, and you hope people do it. Once combat starts, all bets are off. And I certainly don't know anyone that's going to sit there vulnerable while they stare at the battlemap to command once the match is going. Again, I think bigger maps and better comms will help.

I also think command would be helped with extra abilities. Allow him to call in an artillery strike. Or maybe to have a mobile repair unit airlifted in. Something to make the tonnage and space of that command console worthwhile.

I certainly hope that MWO gets to the point where it actually has role warfare. I love the idea of a game where you have 12 mechs assaulting a base - an Atlas in the back keeping an eye on everyone, as a pair of Ravens sneak up to get an eye on the defenses. A couple Catapults move up and rain missiles down while a Cataphract or two starts unloading directly with autocannons. This is the MWO game I hope to see.

Edited by Buckminster, 31 January 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[shotokan5]

The concept of scouting is different than in other mech game. Before it was a very important role but in this game it is no where as important. The best role for light and fast is to protect larger mechs against either smaller fast or distract larger mechs from ganging up on the larger ones. This when used is the most important role I have seen to date. Also an ecm raven can create a shield around larger mechs till they are in much closer range to the enemy thus making a blitz attack very effective taking the missle boats out of the equazion. this tactic can be used with any ECM mech. With the range of the bubble increasing the need for scouting in no more important. A player with experience has a good idea where the attack will come from and being under the shield they can wait and base their response on what is seen.

[DC1]

Glad to see that most of the things that people have been talking about are be looked at and implemented. This is just one example of a much anticipated addition.

[DocBach]

ForestGnome, on 10 May 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

and here we are, 5.10.13 and:

Scouting - Pointless, you'll just be one shot by an alphawarrior. Better just back cap.
Defense - Sure if you want your whole team to call you a f@gg0t (and probably get TK'd next round by who ever blamed you for the loss)
Assault - Are you stacking PPC's? Good.
Commander - A big "TK ME!" sticker when people fight over who gets to be commander, which is silly because 80% of the pugs have no reason to listen to the commander anyways and will carry on their own business. It's kind of like trying to command the monkeys at the zoo. You really just hope they head in the general direction you want and don't throw sh^t at you.



It's funny, most games don't devolve from their design concepts, this one sure has.

Forest, what about the LRM fire support role? What place does that have post-ECM?

[Damien Matashy]

DocBach, on 11 May 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Forest, what about the LRM fire support role? What place does that have post-ECM?

To be honest, none... there is no real LRM support role. I have pug'd as a LRM founders Cat, for i think over 100,000 mech xp. unless you have another ecm mech that is smart enough to block the enemy ecm. or team mate that will accuality target mechs and not just quicly roll through them. that is if you even get a team that will target units for you. Most times i have to tell my team that i am an LRM mech and to please target them so that i can get a lock. Also it does not help that LRMs no longer do 1 point of damage per missle any more. they did just nerf that down again did they not ? I really think that you will se less and less LRM mechs when CW comes out and more and more people use competive mech builds.

[FupDup]

ForestGnome, on 10 May 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

-
Scouting - Pointless, you'll just be one shot by an alphawarrior. Better just back cap.
-

B-b-b-b-b-but I thought it was a totally useful role to tell my team that the enemy team is still behind the ridge like they have been since forever?

Edited by FupDup, 11 May 2013 - 07:11 PM.