161 replies to this topic

[Maethos]

Alaric Wolf Kerensky, on 19 August 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

In my opinion (which is fact and truth, of course!) PvE is a waste of resources, and cannot match the thrill and adrenaline of PvP in the slightest. Why face dumb AI instead of a truly capable opponent? Also, the idea of randomly having Clan 'Mechs drop into random matches does not sound fun to me. It does not match anything that would have been in canon and seems more like a cheap gimmick of GoW's Horde mode. The Clans should not be relegated to some XP grind. They are meant to be scary, and the only way to do that properly is to put human pilots at the controls. AND, "random?" really? Since when do the Clans not offer Batchall?

I hope cannon dose not get in the way of game balance and success. i've seen how cannon has killed or held back games(SWG,STO & SWTOR) the eddless fourm bashing,nerf calls. etc. If cannon is the end all to measured by then all our fates are written in stone, the winner and lossers are already set and that would reduce the game to just a battle sim with all our efforts meaning nothing.

The fact it has already been said we could have minor influence on factions suggest that the dev's know that pure cannon is great for books,tv and movies, but for mmo's its not so. Game mechanics and fun factor must be part of it.

Yes cannon must be the base, but a little flexabillity wont hurt. I also feel that looking at what would make the game over all better and more appealing to many playersis important. I hope that the devs do what ever it takes to make it right and i'll support them all the way. No must from me, just wants and what I think would help the membership grow. In the end we all want the same thing a great MWO exp.

[Deceptor]

^ For sure. This can't be tabletop online.

"Purists of all kinds must first understand that the world is not pure." -wise man

[DDTT4]

It would be called solaris wouldn't it

[Hennessey]

Wow! This thread has really taken on a life of it's own! I'm pleased by the discussion I've seen so far, and can't wait to see if anything comes of any of these ideas. There are a lot of points that I would like to reitterate (don't have time to quote them all, but you know who you are).

1. I think it's been generally agreed by posters that no changes to current game mechanics would be necessary to implement any form of PVE, therefore, inclusion of scripted events should not affect PVP with balance issues (since both players and AIs would have to follow the same rules based on equipment anyway).

2. Introduction of Clans via AI seems to be a far more solid expectation than I would have thought, even from people who don't care about a campaign style game.

3. 'Boss' mechs/fortresses/dropships... Especially dropships, don't seem to be that disturbing to the current systems 'canon' if you will, and would, as pointed out above, give (possibly) up to 32 players a chance to take down something really epic, in scale and difficulty.

4. The fears of PVP suffering from lack of attention seem unfounded on the grounds that once the game is released, there really doesn't seem to be a whole lot that would need serious developement (aside from the obvious bug-fixes/balance issues).

5. PVE content, being additional planets, scenarios, and dare I say it: raids (what would you call it in BT universe? Invasions?), will inevitably rake in more cash (this may be an unfair assumption, however it's based on the precipice that at some point the only thing you'll really be buying for PVP is more in game currency to buy gear, or the gear/mechs themselves).

6. PVE may not be make or break for MW:O, but it seems to be generally agreed (based on the thread) that it could very well affect the longetivity.

7. Many have stated they would like to see mechs/currency seperated if there were inclussion of PVE, and this seems generally accepted as a decent and appropriate solution to 'farming' issues.

8. There has been some speak of 'Just wait for MechWarrior 5', or 'They'll make a seperate expansion for PVE. Let them finish PVP!!!', and while I don't think these statements are innapropriate to the discussion, I do think that even a little taste of PVE in the current game as it plays now, would be a very large boon to people just getting into the franchise, or those of us who do occasionally get bored of grudge-matching (the very simple and small escort quest or 'wave' survival mini-game offer very good examples of so called 'afterthought' PVE that would still be engaging and a change of pace).

That's all I have at the moment, but keep it up all! I really appreciate the feedback, and the civil tone that seems to be lingering in this discussion.

[Vhal]

Thumbs up to the OP. I agree fully that there needs to be a PVE side to this game. Ive played Battletech and MechWarrior from TT to Beta testing Solaris on AOL all those years ago to all the MW2 PC games as well as the novels. With that being said the one thing that Battletech has is rich in depth story. PVE and PVP can coexist well on this game. Hell theres the Universes greatest PVP planet already made up Solaris. Aside from that, the clan front will open up a rich enviroment for both PVE and PVP. Just my two cents for the moment.

[Bortz]

The fact that this post is as long as it is should let anyone who reads it know that PvE is something most of us want. In two days there have been 86 post that for the most part support the idea. I am sure that the developers have this on the slate as they have stated.

[SuperBall]

I agree, there should be some PVE to help broaden the player base. Not all players want to PVP ALL the time.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Maethos, on 19 August 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

I hope cannon dose not get in the way of game balance and success. i've seen how cannon has killed or held back games(SWG,STO & SWTOR) the eddless fourm bashing,nerf calls. etc. If cannon is the end all to measured by then all our fates are written in stone, the winner and lossers are already set and that would reduce the game to just a battle sim with all our efforts meaning nothing.

The fact it has already been said we could have minor influence on factions suggest that the dev's know that pure cannon is great for books,tv and movies, but for mmo's its not so. Game mechanics and fun factor must be part of it.

Yes cannon must be the base, but a little flexabillity wont hurt. I also feel that looking at what would make the game over all better and more appealing to many playersis important. I hope that the devs do what ever it takes to make it right and i'll support them all the way. No must from me, just wants and what I think would help the membership grow. In the end we all want the same thing a great MWO exp.

If people want a "Great MWO (MechWarrior ONLINE) experience", then why are some calling for an OFFLINE component?

I was not trying to say that we should follow canon precisely, although the flavor of canon should be preserved. If the Clans are going to be in the game, have them brought in as a full-fledged faction, fighting the way they were meant to be, and not relegated to some sort of gimmicky random-PvE element.

Would you like to see Davion made into a PvE force simply because some people view them as an overly aggressive faction? I doubt it based on your profile picture.

Edited by Alaric Wolf Kerensky, 19 August 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

SuperBall, on 19 August 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

I agree, there should be some PVE to help broaden the player base. Not all players want to PVP ALL the time.

PvE is just PvP against dumber opponents. It is simply an easy way out for people struggling in full PvP. I understand it is hard to have fun when there is a massive challenge, although for me it makes the victories far more satisfying. For example, my first air-to-air kill in Rise of Flight took 5 failures beforehand to achieve, but after I nearly jumped out of my seat in joy. My personal reaction to PvE is "wow... I beat a full lance of AI assaults.... again. "

Edited by Alaric Wolf Kerensky, 19 August 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[bikerbass77]

Alaric Wolf Kerensky, on 19 August 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

PvE is just PvP against dumber opponents. It is simply an easy way out for people struggling in full PvP. I understand it is hard to have fun when there is a massive challenge, although for me it makes the victories far more satisfying. For example, my first air-to-air kill in Rise of Flight took 5 failures beforehand to achieve, but after I nearly jumped out of my seat in joy. My personal reaction to PvE is "wow... I beat a full lance of AI assaults.... again. "

I have to say I couldn't disagree more with your outlook. PVE is a way for new players to learn the game without worrying about some noob bashing 14 year old making a mockery of them in front of their entire unit. I personally played through Starcraft 2 and came unstuck on the PVP content. Did I get help in learning the difference in how to play? Did I get understanding as a learner?

No, I got called a noob and worse. Not just once, but in every PVP match I went into. Funnily enough I don't play that game anymore.

Also there are many who do not like PVP very much. I have played many games that had great PVP gameplay. The reason I didn't stick with them is that going PVP in the same old maps and missions is inherently boring. At some stage you need a story line to keep the quest alive. This is where a lot of MMO's fall down in my opinion.

[verybad]

I want PvE Tanks and Elementals. Being jumped by a bunch of 8 foot guys in powered armor might be scary. Infantry would also be cool, with 31st centuiry RPGs, chemical lasers, and so forth. It would give flamers and MGs a good reason for existing, then opf course Fighters, Turrets on Dropships or bunkers, and scripted events ingame would all be coo.

Edited by verybad, 19 August 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[Oxford]

Alaric Wolf Kerensky, on 19 August 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

PvE is just PvP against dumber opponents. It is simply an easy way out for people struggling in full PvP. I understand it is hard to have fun when there is a massive challenge, although for me it makes the victories far more satisfying. For example, my first air-to-air kill in Rise of Flight took 5 failures beforehand to achieve, but after I nearly jumped out of my seat in joy. My personal reaction to PvE is "wow... I beat a full lance of AI assaults.... again. "

It's also against a group of opponents who aren't going to whine and ***** at you either.

I've played games in Warhammer 40K tournaments where I absolutely slaughtered my opponent and I didn't enjoy it at all because the guy was acting like a 3 yr old. Every time I'd kill some of his miniatures he would get a sour expression on his face, pick them up off the table and hurl them back into his carry case like they had done something wrong.
Some people may find that amusing but I didn't.
Alternately, I faced another guy who I could see from the outset I didn't have a hope against but I decided I was going to make him pay for every inch of tabletop and it was one of the best matches of 40K I've ever played.

If you don't think PvE is a challenge then don't play it. In the scenarios we've been discussing the AI will already have the advantage of Clan tech. If the mission was something like attack a dropship, what is a human player in a grounded dropship going to do anyway?

Edited by Oxford, 19 August 2012 - 04:54 PM.

[Fred Selous]

I think, in 2 or so years time, MWO should look like this gamemode-wise

Random Pubber Battles, that dropship mode and Team Deathmatch.

PvE scenarios, sorta like the basic Missions in Mechwarrior, 2 lances of Mechs vs a large variety of enemies in different situations, with a moderately hard structure, so that every mission survived is a major success.

PvEP Scenarios, kinda like those DotA games (Which i haven't had the chance to indulge in) in which two companies face each other with substantial AI support in the form of crawlers and infantry.


Something else I think would be cool is a "Random Event" generator, that allows individual lances to join battles in progress and ruffle some feathers (only if both parties allow these events before the game), or maybe allow house units to hire Lances of Merc's that hot-drop in halfway through the battle.

[snafubar usmc]

Thumbs up +1 to the OP

Implementing any sort of variety would be great

[light487]

I agree in that I would love to see another Single-Player (or maybe even co-op) campaign.... but I have no problem with the current PvP setup of MWO.. have to start somewhere..

[Lege]

Yeah, lets get some clan technology from 16 mech raids ...









or not and say we didn't

[Metatron]

I agree I liked the first MW5 movies.

Its was AWESOME <--- want PVE co-op 4 player.

[Deceptor]

Fred Selous, on 19 August 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

I think, in 2 or so years time, MWO should look like this gamemode-wise

Random Pubber Battles, that dropship mode and Team Deathmatch.

PvE scenarios, sorta like the basic Missions in Mechwarrior, 2 lances of Mechs vs a large variety of enemies in different situations, with a moderately hard structure, so that every mission survived is a major success.

PvEP Scenarios, kinda like those DotA games (Which i haven't had the chance to indulge in) in which two companies face each other with substantial AI support in the form of crawlers and infantry.


Something else I think would be cool is a "Random Event" generator, that allows individual lances to join battles in progress and ruffle some feathers (only if both parties allow these events before the game), or maybe allow house units to hire Lances of Merc's that hot-drop in halfway through the battle.

+1. You just can't make real people battles as varying and complex as you can the AI ones. You think they'll be easier? Why then, for example, did you play through all the 007 missions back in the day on 64?

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Hans Davion, on 19 August 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Also there are many who do not like PVP very much. I have played many games that had great PVP gameplay. The reason I didn't stick with them is that going PVP in the same old maps and missions is inherently boring. At some stage you need a story line to keep the quest alive. This is where a lot of MMO's fall down in my opinion.

The same could be said of PvE content. It is the same thing over and over again, except without the natural unpredictability of human opponents. I would prefer to add variety by spending developer resources on developing new maps and adding every single possible 'Mech into the game. I do not see how PvE would necessarily add a deeper story line to the game.

Oxford, on 19 August 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

It's also against a group of opponents who aren't going to whine and ***** at you either.

I've played games in Warhammer 40K tournaments where I absolutely slaughtered my opponent and I didn't enjoy it at all because the guy was acting like a 3 yr old. Every time I'd kill some of his miniatures he would get a sour expression on his face, pick them up off the table and hurl them back into his carry case like they had done something wrong.
Some people may find that amusing but I didn't.
Alternately, I faced another guy who I could see from the outset I didn't have a hope against but I decided I was going to make him pay for every inch of tabletop and it was one of the best matches of 40K I've ever played.

You hit on the same key I was trying to say. It is the challenging aspect that makes it fun. You had a blast fighting the challenging opponent, while the easy battle was not very fun. Therein lies my point. PvE, (which I find to be easy) is not fun.

[Aodr Arnarson]

Oxford, on 17 August 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Well you could have missions in the area around the FRR where a group of co-op players try to hold back the clan advance.
Maybe that would shut the Mad Cat fans up too.

I'll jump on that bandwagon. There will definitely be a lot of action in and around the FRR. That said, how exactly will that work? PvE raises a good question; is this game just going to be like MechAssault 2's multiplayer where we just load up matches nand what-not? In which case location wouldn't matter as it would just devolve into any other shooter-game but with mechs... How the hell is this all gonna work???