558 replies to this topic

[Tifalia]

Personally I am against 'legging' and have always viewed it as being a dishonourable means of playing. What is the point in even strapping yourself to a walking fusion reactor at 4 in the A.M. if you cannot even take a little heat when things start to go bad?
Go back to the Somerset Military Academy, because no one can call themselves a true MechWarrior by opting for the cheating way out of a tough fight.

[Ted Striker]

IMO it basically comes to a balance.

If you have no armor on your legs (0.1 in MW:4 I think was min) and I notice this via a shot to the torso make your torso yellow but legs red, I'm definately going legs.

That said, if you put enough armor on your legs that they seem reasonably strong, I'm going to go where your armor is weaker.

[Felbombling]

The dev team has to figure this out somehow, as I am sure they will. Points to consider as they try to translate a board game into a sim...

• Table Top had random chances to hit the legs during each round of game play.
  
• Most sims everyone here has ever played have pinpoint accurate targetting. A cone of direct fire weapons, if you will, concentrated on a single location on the pull of the trigger.
  
• Three sections could generally be hit if you aim center mass on the torso area, whereas a leg is a leg, so-to-speak, if aiming there.
  
• While a side torso in the table top game can generally hold the same amount of armour [front and back combined] as a leg can, the hit chances were again random.

I am in favour of two things... a leg with two hit boxes, same armour values for each. Top box [thigh] has the Hip and upper leg actuators, while the bottom box [shin] contains the lower leg and foot actuators, along with the two empty equipment damage locations as in the table top game. This way, even if someone tries to leg you, they've got a 50-50 chance to hit the same damage box on the legs, and thus it turns into a crap-shoot as to if it is a useful tactic.

The second thing I am in favour of would be a little icon riding over your head with a broken leg icon, and wording to the effect of... "StaggerCheck has killed 73% of his opponents by legging." I'd be such a social misfit after awhile, I'd need to change my ways.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Tifalia, on 02 February 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Personally I am against 'legging' and have always viewed it as being a dishonourable means of playing. What is the point in even strapping yourself to a walking fusion reactor at 4 in the A.M. if you cannot even take a little heat when things start to go bad?

Putting the emphasis on "walking" causes your argument to stumble over itself in the heat of things.

It's a game based on WALKING Mechs. If you hate legging, then either play a game that's not based on walking Mechs or play a game that doesn't break your character down into damagable bodypart sections. There are plenty of games that cause instantaneous death if you get shot in the tip of your finger with a high-powered rifle, unlike MechWarrior where getting shot in certain bodparts affects those specific bodyparts.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 02 February 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[Omigir]

This is like what? the 3rd legging thread?

I said it once and I will say it again, legging should be hard. Moving legs are not easy to hit. On top of that, there is nothing wrong. If some one makes it easy for you, take it. Hell, if you were boxing and your opponent kept lifting his arms up and exposing his rips, you punch him! Likewaise, if some one takes off *all* the armor off their legs, they deserve a wheel chair. or an electric chair. Either way I am happy.

[Ravn]

StaggerCheck, on 02 February 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

The second thing I am in favour of would be a little icon riding over your head with a broken leg icon, and wording to the effect of... "StaggerCheck has killed 73% of his opponents by legging." I'd be such a social misfit after awhile, I'd need to change my ways.

Not if you were killing 25% more opponents than pilots killing 0% of their opponents by legging. Also, leggers seem to cluster into tiny a-hole teams, and it would become a cultural norm within your group. That being said, if there is a weakness, I'm gonna be an a-hole.

[Kenyon Burguess]

shooting a leg off is a part of TT and the video games. i'd be upset if it wasnt. its the second best way to gain extra salvage short of a pit kill.
i have high hopes that enviroment will help deter some of them but if they dont, its not gonna send me into a rage. the devs seem pretty well on top of concerns people have on the forums. I'm sure they are doing the best they can to balance alpha strikes, boats, legs, pit kills, and broken hula girl springs the best they can

[Orzorn]

Tifalia, on 02 February 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Personally I am against 'legging' and have always viewed it as being a dishonourable means of playing. What is the point in even strapping yourself to a walking fusion reactor at 4 in the A.M. if you cannot even take a little heat when things start to go bad?
Go back to the Somerset Military Academy, because no one can call themselves a true MechWarrior by opting for the cheating way out of a tough fight.

Sounds to me like you can't take the heat when the chips are down and they fire at your legs. How can you call yourself a true Mechwarrior if you can't adapt?

Would you have everyone automatically fire at the center torso like a bunch of rubes?

[joemomma]

I think we need a realistic (preferably physics based) falling and standing model. If a leg gets destroyed you fall over, depending on how you fall you can try to push yourself up into a semi-firing position to at least get some weapons back into the fight. Asking a lot on the coding side I'm sure, but the other options of "your leg's destroyed, you die" or "your leg should be destroyed, but we're not going to blow it off because they're indestructible" really don't make any sense.

[Felbombling]

Ravn, on 02 February 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Not if you were killing 25% more opponents than pilots killing 0% of their opponents by legging. Also, leggers seem to cluster into tiny a-hole teams, and it would become a cultural norm within your group. That being said, if there is a weakness, I'm gonna be an a-hole.

OK, you've left me 2%. I'll take those in the form of lucky head shots and floating critical hits.

[EDMW CSN]

If it has armor, you can shoot it. If you chose to sacrifice leg or rear torso armor so you can mount more shiny bling bling, accept the downside that it comes with it.

Legging will always happen whether by accident or deliberate, so get used to it. Whether be it your legs are armored by papier mache while you shoehorn that large laser in or properly armor dem legs and squeeze less guns / gadgets on your mech.

/thread.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 03 February 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[Tifalia]

Orzorn, on 02 February 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

Sounds to me like you can't take the heat when the chips are down and they fire at your legs. How can you call yourself a true Mechwarrior if you can't adapt?

Those that leg all the time are the players who really demonstrate their poor combat skills.

Edited by Tifalia, 03 February 2012 - 12:48 AM.

[EDMW CSN]

Tifalia, on 03 February 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Those that leg all the time are the players who really demonstrate their poor combat skills.

If you are piloting a large arse heavy or assault and refused to put a shred on armor on your legs, you deserved to be stomped by a light mech scout pilot who happened to hit your leg with a medium laser.

Hell I would laugh if MWO allowed Thunder mines for LRM. It would be hilarious watching Mechs that lose their feet to land mines because they refuse to armor it.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

I guess the tabletop rules about legging are the best. Pity they weren't mentioned in the starter topic.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

As far as I am concerned taking out a leg shouldn't kill a mech. Other than that no problems, if you take the armour off your legs -your problem. The other point is this talk of better salvage. This is a reboot, and so far no one has said whether we will have salvage rether than C-bills. It would need a lot of wotk on the part of the devs including markets etc and we are launching with MVP. It could well be that there is no salvage.

[zverofaust]

Legging in MWLL was hilarious fun and I did it all the time -- 5 ERLBL Novacat yes please. However in MWLL a legged pilot can still bail out of his Mech and run around in his little Battle Armour being a nuisance. Also the game's nature -- where your wallet is refilled every time you die and you can buy many Mechs over the course of a game -- doesn't make it that bad. But in a game like this, where when you die, you die and don't come back, this can be problematic.

I'd still like to see legging occur, but at a much more lenient rate (for the one being legged). Start off by slowing down movement on that leg the more it's damaged, then have it seize up occasionally (but repair itself eventually a la WoT?), and only after concerted effort on the part of the attacker will it ever be blown completely off, and effectively destroy the Mech.

[Mchawkeye]

This again?

I figure it's a personal call. If we are both rocking up in Atlases, then I'm going to be an honerable warrior and just try to blow your smelly face clean off.

If I'm in something, anything, smaller, I'll take your legs out from under you.

Because you deserve death and I do not.

Edited by Mchawkeye, 03 February 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[Moorecroft]

- Once a leg takes structural damage, you slow down/limp.
- Destroy a leg, fall down.
- Destroy both legs.. still on the ground. definitely no legs.
- Up-Armour legs until they are still a viable target, just not at the expense of all other targets. Break BT canon to achieve this, since the people that had these mechs (in BT universe) would have done this. Whatever balance works in game is what it should be in canon, not the other way around. Juggle armour weights/percentages as required.

Also note that, ideally, destroying both legs shouldnt destroy the mech, just frak it the frak up. You should still have to explode its engine/ammo to blow it up. You will probably need to have some level of arm control so that the mech can still shoot/aim from on its on face. Party time. If they cant do this because of design/technological limitations, then w/e. Two legs = exploded is fine too.


TL;DR

UP ARMOUR THE LEGS.

[Leonardo Monteiro]

Me? Ill do whatever it takes (and whatever is allowed) to get a fast, clean, efficient kill - if its by legging, then legging it is.... unless, there is no obvious advantage in it:


Here enters the armor balancing, were legs, although "leggable", are quite armored - if you don't like the prospect of being legged, armor your legs... sure, you'lll be cored faster, but that's life

[Omaha]

And here I was thinking this thread was about women's leg wear.....

She's got legs, she knows how to use them.
She never begs, she knows how to choose them.
She's holdin' leg wonderin' how to feel them.
Would you get behind them if you could only find them?
She's my baby, she's my baby,
Yeah, it's alright. Leg, Away!

If it makes you unable to move, or move slower. That will be a priority.

Whats next a thread about cold starting, or even campers?

Edited by Omaha, 03 February 2012 - 04:36 AM.