67 replies to this topic

[Pvt Dancer]

All I have to say is THANK GOD! Been fighting with some guys here who have been pew pewing close combat because they feel it has no part in Mechwarrior. Some of these people also feel that there is no link between Mechwarrior and BattleTech too *rolls eyes*.

This means that with DFA and Charging, close combat is half way there! All that is left is incoperating the kick and the punch... and I don't see that as being that hard (but what do I know). I still see this being a huge step towards that direction and I know the Devs want it at some point and time.

Hellllo Hatchman and Axeman!

[IxxxI]

Alex Wolfe, on 04 February 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Dat BOSS pistol .


I assume you have a lot of experience with charging? You do realize that on a collision, the same amount of energy is transferred to both bodies (mechs, in this case). In such case it's up to the attacker to position their body in such a way to minimize the damage, so that it becomes a tackle, not a crash.

Also, the pilot being used to ramming may have better control over the mech's balance through the neurohelmet, so that he doesn't fall prone with the enemy.

Too much assumptions. Better neurohelmet would result not only in stupid collision. KInd of punch is still closer to what you've said, than to charge. I can accept your point of view, it has some reason behind it, but that doesn't change my hope for better physical model of collisions and close combat.

Edited by IxxxI, 04 February 2012 - 04:09 AM.

[Paladin Brewer]

Quote

I would think that there would be a difference between simply ramming an opponent ("full-throttle and go") and a charging attack (probably something like a body check, where there are "right" and "wrong" ways to do it - the right ways minimize damage to the attacking 'Mech, and the wrong ways don't).

Your thoughts?

I feel like I'd rather that be something a pilot has to consciously do (IE control your mech to say, put your shoulder into it, keep your head down, etc), than not have to even think about it because you have a magical skill point.

[Thorolf Kylesson]

IxxxI, on 04 February 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

My opinion is that Charging isn't worth a skill point in Assault tree, as Palading Brewer said, full throttle is all you need to charge, hypotetical damage reduction is f...ing RPG. I would like to see some similar skill, let's say 'Kicking skill', which would really require some pilots mastery to implement (something like warrior Joanna from Jade Falcons mastered). Such a talant is of better use, 'cause it allows to throw down your opponent in critical situation and finish him with shots.

Where do you get that Joanna was a master kicker? Kicking is just a piloting skill, mostly if you can stand afterword not to hit. I do think that charging should be something of a skill to take less damage and not fall yourself. Anyone can run into something, but how mwny can do it with style?

[Elizander]

They could make charging reduce damage from other mechs charging you and it would then become a defensive ability as well.

Edited by Elizander, 04 February 2012 - 04:48 AM.

[IxxxI]

Thorolf Kylesson, on 04 February 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

Where do you get that Joanna was a master kicker? Kicking is just a piloting skill, mostly if you can stand afterword not to hit. I do think that charging should be something of a skill to take less damage and not fall yourself. Anyone can run into something, but how mwny can do it with style?

Master-kicker - I like it, lol. Elite pilot skill. I never meant that, mate. I could hardly remeber from some book(s), I've read long time ago, that Joanna used that trick quite frequently, I can't remeber the novel's name, sorry.

Edited by IxxxI, 04 February 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Thorolf Kylesson]

IxxxI, on 04 February 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Master-kiicker - I like it, lol. Elite pilot skill. I never meant that, mate. I could hardly remeber from some book(s), I've read long time ago, that Joanna used that trick quite frequently, I can't remeber the novel's name, sorry.

The only one I remember her doing any fancy foot work was in "I Am Jade Falcon" when she lift the foot of her prone mech and used the jump jet to fry her opponents cockpit. If you have read the book I am sorry. If you have not, do not! It was terrible.

[Kargush]

IxxxI, on 04 February 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

My opinion is that Charging isn't worth a skill point in Assault tree, as Palading Brewer said, full throttle is all you need to charge, hypotetical damage reduction is f...ing RPG. I would like to see some similar skill, let's say 'Kicking skill', which would really require some pilots mastery to implement (something like warrior Joanna from Jade Falcons mastered). Such a talant is of better use, 'cause it allows to throw down your opponent in critical situation and finish him with shots.

People who learn the sort of driving skills used by the Secret Service learn to ram other vehicles out of the way without ruining their own.

This is the same sort of set-up, with mechs instead of cars.

[renegade mitchell]

First punching, then kicking, followed by this charging. What is next, figure skating on the ice world? Damn.

[IxxxI]

Renegade Mitchell, on 04 February 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

First punching, then kicking, followed by this charging. What is next, figure skating on the ice world? Damn.

This tread is all about speculation, it's too early to get dissapointed.

[Opus]

Durant Carlyle, on 03 February 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

Charging causes damage to both 'Mechs. You spend a point so that when you charge, your own 'Mech takes less damage than normal.

Not if your mech is built for Hand to Hand combat.... oh hell yes I went there

[KageRyuu]

God of War, on 04 February 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

i would prefer the Berserker with MASC and TSM! A 40dmg Hatchet to one location with shooting is way more sexy
than 80dmg clustered, no weapon fire, a good chance of not even reaching your target and taking dmg myself.

Can't Mix MASC and TSM. However you can mix a Super Charger with TSM, or MASC, if you want to for some ungodly reason.

Paladin Brewer, on 04 February 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

I feel like I'd rather that be something a pilot has to consciously do (IE control your mech to say, put your shoulder into it, keep your head down, etc), than not have to even think about it because you have a magical skill point.

Ever heard of a little thing called muscle memory? Don't believe it? Well you should see me roll out of bed, slap on my plates and go before I even wake up. The Neurohelmet works off your subconscious, and "muscle memory" is learned subconsciously through repetition. So consider the point in Charging, to be the time and effort you put into learning how to charge properly without damaging your mech to the point that you can do so in your sleep. Though I suppose it'll be more difficult then simply full throttle and steering. At least I hope so.

I know it requires imagination and perhaps even a little role playing, but if your not going to play as a MechWarrior in the BattleTech universe, what's the point in playing a MechWarrior game in the first place?

Edited by KageRyuu, 08 February 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[VYCanis]

i think charging shouldn't simply be a damage reduction from what you'd get from just bumping into someone, but should be an actual attack, with it's own animations that just happens to include a damage reduction.

like if there was some key you could hold down when you hit max speed that'd change your running animation to show you kinda sorta "shouldering in" and leaning forwards a bit, increases speed slightly, but kills your ability to slow down or turn properly, and disables weapons, and bob's your view more.

that way people could immediately identify that a mech is charging, and it looks more natural as an intentional ramming attack. but also makes it a hard thing to do, since you can easily overshoot a target and smash into an obstacle.

Edited by VYCanis, 08 February 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Mourning Shadows]

First things first, no mechwarrior in their right mind is going to go into a battle intendng to charge/dfa somone, unles they have a giant bankroll, and have created an armored up bucket solely for that purpose.

The mechs are your tools, if your guns work you use them. If your wrench works you dont use it like a hammer unless you have exausted all other options.

I have never objectively seen a mechwarrior situation computer game/board game, or otherwise, where somone perfomed a dfa/carge attack, and expected to come out unscathed. You know you will be damageing your stsyems in this action as a foregone conclusion.

Second, I can understand the concept of having charging/dfa as an action that you can perform in game, it does add alot to close combat and realy keeps the excitement up when you round a corner and feel like your are to close to loose that ppc carging on your arm.

Lastly, The idea of melee clas mechs is a wonderfull and fun mechanic. I have had some of the most hilarios moments when two mechs begin "the dance". I would love to see some melee class mechs in this game. That bieng said. There should be a system in place that would make this kind of combat a reasonable thig to do before we start talking about doing it. What I mean by this is, when you impact another mech both mechs take damage, and that damage can, and in most cases due to the severity of the bludgeoning type damage, will destroy or damage internal systems.
So this is the crux of it, no amount of skill, or perks or, piloting jargon is going to prevent the mechs systems from taking this damage. The only thing you as pilot can controll is where the damage is applied. If you have a melee weapon desigend to dish out and recive this kind of damage, that weapon will get damaged over time. If you dfa somone your leg actuators will be at the very least out of alignment ie, no more top speed. To charge into another mech and say shoulder them for instance. I would think you would have to consider that your shoulder joint affects the aim and overall usefullness of everything attached below it on the arm. Unless im out of ammo for a gun on that arm and it serves no other purpose I personaly would not want to risk damageing the mobility of the whole arm on the chance that a shoulder charge would do more damage to them than to me.
So it would make sense to think of melee not as a role specific trait, but a last ditch effort that anyone with the mobility or tools can do, but not something that even a melee class mech is going to want to depend on.

Sorry for the rant, I just think it would be a shame for melee to become some cheap mechanic to be abused by min/maxers until ultimately nerfed into obscurity. Beter that it be a well balanced and fun part of gameplay, and stay that way.

Edited by Mourning Shadows, 08 February 2012 - 04:57 PM.

[Orzorn]

Mourning Shadows, on 08 February 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

have created an armored up bucket solely for that purpose.

Yes, it's called a Charger.

And it does its job with ruthless effeciency.

[VYCanis]

i don't think anyone here is saying that melee-ing should come at no cost to the melee-er, least of all DFAs or charges.

hell, the irony of most DFAs and charges is that the point where you are usually desperate enough to attempt to do one, is usually when you are in bad enough shape where it's likely to be suicidal to attempt it, but you you're too out of options to care.

as for punches and kicks, while not really supported in the official rules, it would make sense that doing too much punching and kicking should damage the puncher/kicker. Literally breaking your foot from kicking too many *****, or punching so much your hands become gnarled stumps, or if no hands, or only stumps left, risking busting or jamming the weapon in that arm.

hatchets though should have a lot of longevity though, considering the tonnage costs paid for it.

[Makaveli]

Elizander, on 04 February 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

They could make charging reduce damage from other mechs charging you and it would then become a defensive ability as well.

I like how you think.

And F*S people, they are trying to make a game that is not one dimensional. Not every idea has to be picked apart down to its bone. Guess what, MECHS DONT EXIST either! Let that sink in, this is a game of hypothetical combat in a giant robot.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I want to see a two-handed Heavy Mech walk to behind an other Mech and twist its head off, then shake the pilot out.

[Tatius Pryde]

Prosperity Park, on 08 February 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

I want to see a two-handed Heavy Mech walk to behind an other Mech and twist its head off, then shake the pilot out.

HA! thats gold. maybe make it a mini game of it. right left left left *now shake pilot out* up down up down.

back on topic. the skill would be a muscle memory thing like previously stated. try charging down a hill or over a frozen lake without the skill and risk falling before the charge has connected.

i like that its a skill. and not a full throttle context-sensitive based system.

[Lorcan Lladd]

But...
...Present Neurohelmet technology is used exclusively to balance the 'Mech.
It has no other bearing on any other functions.

There is certainly another explanation for this.
Or not, but that's okay.