67 replies to this topic

[Mourning Shadows]

I agree melee mechs/"chargers" should have some logevity as they are purpose built.
This is a game, but many elements of the game have always been geared to reflect some amount of realisim. My main point was to highlight the discrepancy between those elements that would try to simulate the current laws of physics and the idea that a skill could reduce the amount of damage that would inherently occur during a collision.
I'm all for making 60 ton paper weights with jump jets and a realy wide footprint for the purpose of crushing scouts but to say that some skill my pilot has learned would allow my mech to take less damage is a bit on the silly side even for hypothetical nuke powered walking tanks. ;p

[Burned_Follower]

Ok this is the first i ever heard about charging but i've only been hooked on BT related stuff since MW4 Vengeance so go figure. I just want to make sure that i understand what "charging" is supposed to simulate in a TT session of BT:

Could this be an accurate example:
In the Grey Death Trilogy, i remember reading about a pilot who i believe was muslim. He was with Grayson Caryle and this pilot ambushed another mech. Using his element of surprise he rushed the mech and literally chopped the enemie's cockpit in half by using one of his mech's hands while screaming "allah akbah!"
...Personally this sounds more like a surprise melee attack.

Or could this be an example:
I'm in an Atlas. You are in another assault mech of equal size/strength. Instead of running straight into your mech by pointing my Atlas in your general direction and putting the petal to the floor, instead i run at you full speed, then use one of my shoulders to ram you(since Atlas are known for having huge shoulder armor plates) almost like a football player thus knocking you over causing minimal damage. But if you were in anything lighter it would cause more damage.

If what you all are defining as "charging" doesn't fit one of these examples, can you give me a better example? I'm just trying to comprehend it since i never heard this term before in a MW related discussion.

[Orzorn]

XxDRxDEATHxX, on 08 February 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

I'm in an Atlas. You are in another assault mech of equal size/strength. Instead of running straight into your mech by pointing my Atlas in your general direction and putting the petal to the floor, instead i run at you full speed, then use one of my shoulders to ram you(since Atlas are known for having huge shoulder armor plates) almost like a football player thus knocking you over causing minimal damage. But if you were in anything lighter it would cause more damage.

If what you all are defining as "charging" doesn't fit one of these examples, can you give me a better example? I'm just trying to comprehend it since i never heard this term before in a MW related discussion.

No, that's pretty much what I imagined it as, and what I hope it will be depicted as in MWO. It makes sense, physically and gameplay wise, to have a mech charge like that.

As an aside guys, its not as if the rules don't take attacker damage into account:
If the attack succeeds, both units take damage from the collision. The defender takes 1 point of damage for every 10 tons that the charging unit weighs, multiplied by the number of hexes moved by the attacker in the Movement Phase, rounding fractions up (the hexes moved do not count the hex containing the target). The charging unit takes 1 point of damage for every 10 tons the target weighs (round fractions up).

Edited by Orzorn, 08 February 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[The Cheese]

Paladin Brewer, on 03 February 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

I don't understand why Charging is something we would use a skill point on. Full Throttle and go, ta-da

It takes mad skills to push your throttle ALL THE WAY TO 11!

[Orzorn]

The Cheese, on 08 February 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

It takes mad skills to push your throttle ALL THE WAY TO 11!

The enemy Charger just went off the radar sir.

It...it's gone plaid!

[Mourning Shadows]

The Cheese, on 08 February 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

It takes mad skills to push your throttle ALL THE WAY TO 11!

Heh it's not that hard. You just turn off all the safety's, run the reactor up to full output, throttle up to full and then lean forward a bit. The reactor will spike as the drive system pulls more power to add speed to compensate for the leaning. Just make sure you reach your target before you blow up, or fall over.

[The Cheese]

I can imagine it it now:

safeties off,
full throttle,
leaning into target,
trip on a pebble and go critical.

[Kooroush Azartash]

Perhaps the 'Charging' skill is more like acquiring/installing an algorithm which causes your mech to articulate into the optimal position to reduce damage during contact. Mechs already have algorithms to take sensor reading to prevent arms from just smacking into objects while walking. Perhaps this would work the same way.

[Alan Grant]

Orcinus, on 03 February 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Au contraire.

This!!!

I want to run off a ledge and stomp on some poor B*****ds face. I would definitly spend a skill point on that.

I really like that picture, also really sums charging and all that stuff up for me. Practical or not, look at that picture and you know its WIN.

[Damocles]

Quickdraw all standin there like; "Whaaa O_o"

[BerserX]

Alex Wolfe, on 04 February 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Dat BOSS pistol .


I assume you have a lot of experience with charging? You do realize that on a collision, the same amount of energy is transferred to both bodies (mechs, in this case). In such case it's up to the attacker to position their body in such a way to minimize the damage, so that it becomes a tackle, not a crash.

Also, the pilot being used to ramming may have better control over the mech's balance through the neurohelmet, so that he doesn't fall prone with the enemy.

I think you have the right idea. Anyone can charge an enemy, but only a good pilot can tackle/body-slam 'em. I think the "Charge" skill should simply give you better stability upon impact; but it should be upgradeable so that you are able to "Body Slam," "Tackle," and "Kick," in a realistic skill progression. It would be awesome to be able to actually "tuck your shoulder" and slam an enemy into a wall; or be able to jump off a cliff and kick your opponent in the face!

Orcinus, on 03 February 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Au contraire.

...and, it would definitely take the irritation out of being stopped in the streets by a 30-ton Osiris, when you're piloting an 80-ton Victor. It would add a sorta' pleasure to the prospect...

*Here, little 'Mechy - *whistle* - here boy; c'mon!*

[VYCanis]

you know what would be sweet...

ever watch videos of like a train or truck catching a smaller vehicle in front of it and just dragging the poor fortune cookied vehicle along for the ride?

what if you could do something akin to that when you have a major tonnage advantage.

Bob in his atlas is cruising at a stately 54kph

Alice in her jenner rounds the wrong corner without looking both ways and gets tboned by Bob's Atlas.

Bob decides to keep plodding along.

Alice's Jenner is pushed along and jostled by the atlas for some 50 meters before finally falling over and getting trampled or slips off past the sides.

Bob's atlas sustains some scuffing and dents. Alice's Jenner is messed up.

Edited by VYCanis, 09 February 2012 - 06:20 PM.

[Yeach]

This could also be a DFA attack.

I believe TT rules states that jumping from a higher level to lower level can also be similar to a DFA attack.

[Orzorn]

VYCanis, on 09 February 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

you know what would be sweet...

ever watch videos of like a train or truck catching a smaller vehicle in front of it and just dragging the poor fortune cookied vehicle along for the ride?

what if you could do something akin to that when you have a major tonnage advantage.

Bob in his atlas is cruising at a stately 54kph

Alice in her jenner rounds the wrong corner without looking both ways and gets tboned by Bob's Atlas.

Bob decides to keep plodding along.

Alice's Jenner is pushed along and jostled by the atlas for some 50 meters before finally falling over and getting trampled or slips off past the sides.

Bob's atlas sustains some scuffing and dents. Alice's Jenner is messed up.

Makes sense. In the rules, a mech that is successfully charged is pushed back on hex (if possible).

In addition to all of this, to help balance charging out, and if knockback is similar to Mechwarrior 4, then getting hit with enough "knock" to successfully cause a mech to fall over should cause a charging mech to fail their charge and instead start skidding and trip. Of course, getting hit by this mech would still hurt, so you should move out of the way (in the TT rules, a skidding mech, if it enters the same hex as another unit, must make a charge roll against that unit).

This would help balance out charging so that it you would really want to think about it before doing it. Charging a mech that can knock you over is a bad idea, because you'll go skidding and kiss the pavement.

Quote

I believe TT rules states that jumping from a higher level to lower level can also be similar to a DFA attack.

No, but the rules do change how a unit does physical attacks depending on the height an enemy is standing at:

Standing ’Mech 1 level higher
Charge, Punch (Kick Table), Club (Kick Table), Physical Weapon (Kick Table)

Standing ’Mech 1 level lower
Charge, Kick (Punch Table), Club (Punch Table), Physical Weapon (Punch Table)

Prone ’Mech, ProtoMech, Vehicle
or infantry 1 level higher
Punch, Club, Physical Weapon

Prone ’Mech, ProtoMech, Vehicle
or infantry 1 level lower
None

Most notable, in my opinion, being the kick that uses the punch table, meaning your mech is high enough that when you kick it will hit their upper body. Its extremely devestating because it gives your kick a chance to hit their cockpit, which is nasty.

Edited by Orzorn, 09 February 2012 - 08:21 PM.

[Name136774]

Renegade Mitchell, on 04 February 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

First punching, then kicking, followed by this charging. What is next, figure skating on the ice world? Damn.

Agreed. I think this melee stuff is kind of sick for simulator (yea, maybe an action simulator) - I know, its maybe the part of BT universe and so. I just hope the devs have enough courage to do things by their way and remove any kind of the "hand to hand" combat between mechs. Not just blindly followed BT universe canon.

Edited by eRSkaarj, 26 March 2012 - 05:34 AM.

[Xyph3r]

as long as i´m able to Jump on my opp´s roof when my mech is nearly done, I´m fine with the Charging, too xD

[Togg Bott]

Renegade Mitchell, on 04 February 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

First punching, then kicking, followed by this charging. What is next, figure skating on the ice world? Damn.

NO... that particular skill is reserved for full throttal Locust pilots changing course on concrete

[Gigaton]

eRSkaarj, on 26 March 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

Agreed. I think this melee stuff is kind of sick for simulator (yea, maybe an action simulator) - I know, its maybe the part of BT universe and so. I just hope the devs have enough courage to do things by their way and remove any kind of the "hand to hand" combat between mechs. Not just blindly followed BT universe canon.

Every BT game focused on piloting has been action sim so far. Certainly they fall short of my defination of a simulation. I'd even say that truly realistic sim is flat out impossible given the unrealistic nature of tech in BT. DFA and melee don't bother me any more than the fact Jenner and Atlas can be given same degree of external protection with 5 tons of armour dispite Atlas having like 5 times (or more) the surface area.

With that said, I'm personally hoping for charging, DFA (ie. jump jet charge) and melee with proper animations and depth (eg. pilot ability needed to get a knockdown, or prevent getting knocked over yourself in the process, possibility to go for localized damage with the downside of getting localized damage yourself eg. to your arm, and so forth). These things have been more or less entirely absent from MW games so far (haven't played Crecent Hawks or MW:1, though they are featured in Titans of Steel even if not BT per se).

Edited by Gigaton, 26 March 2012 - 06:48 AM.

[metro]

charge me, and I will leg and gyro you, leaving you for salvage.

[BarHaid]