69 replies to this topic

[Grithis]

I could see this being a good idea if they ever impliment PvE. Like perhaps a lance or company dropping in to capture/ destroy some experimental tech being worked on by an enemy house and, oops, one or two are up and running. Kind of like a boss fight in many other mmos. Putting something like this in the hands of players for PvP slug-fests just seems wrong.

And before I get flamed, yes there are discussions about putting in PvE, eventually. The devs say they'd like to get a stable game going before exploring that possibility, though. Personally, I'm hoping there's enough player interest to make it possible, even as just training missions or challenges, or something.

[Dataman]

there's only one experimental colossal class mech. pilot with 3 man with different role. gunner, pilot, engineer

Ares if I'm not wrong

Edited by Dataman, 07 February 2012 - 02:11 AM.

[Jack Gallows]

Petroff Northrup, on 06 February 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

So in a recent Jihad book detailing much of the end of that era many things were introduced or reintroduced such as battlemech drones and LAMs, one thing which really caught my eye though, were the Super-heavies, there are basically now rules and full canonical status for mechs over 100 tons allowing for mechs to go all the way up to 200 tons now. The technology is far from perfect and there are still quirks but they do exist and are quite brutal. My question is this though, if this game reaches the point were super-heavies become viable would you want them implemented?

Dark Age can burn. It needs to be avoided at all costs.

Also, the Ares itself is a bad idea overall. It has to cost more to produce something like that, the locomotive function of three legs has to be awkward compared to bipedal or quad and cause speed problems, and having three pilots means you need three times the mechwarrior/training to field ONE unit...that's unsound. I don't want to lose three mechwarriors to one machine dying when I can have three 'mechs that each individually have better weaponry and can think independently or as a team when needed.

Super-heavies are rather senseless.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 07 February 2012 - 05:53 AM.

[Tadakuma]

Petroff Northrup, on 06 February 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

So in a recent Jihad book detailing much of the end of that era many things were introduced or reintroduced such as battlemech drones and LAMs, one thing which really caught my eye though, were the Super-heavies, there are basically now rules and full canonical status for mechs over 100 tons allowing for mechs to go all the way up to 200 tons now. The technology is far from perfect and there are still quirks but they do exist and are quite brutal. My question is this though, if this game reaches the point were super-heavies become viable would you want them implemented?

This is one of the reasons why I'm not impressed with the Jihad Story arc.

Catalyst has stopped using the story to push the series and is now using Supertech gimmicks and shiny toys to replace well thought out story arcs and plots.

I can honestly say that the day super heavy 'mechs, or anything with a plasma rifle, comes out in MWO is the day I'll be leaving the community.

[CoffiNail]

Get your jihad out of my Clan Invasion!

[Opus]

"I don't get it, whats fun about this? I mean who wants to play with a Building?"

Guess the movie that line came from, and it really applies here.......

I mobile command center yes, perhaps,, dunno...

a 200ton moving target, with a ton of C-bills being wasted on orbital bombardment?

yeah right...

[Jack Gallows]

Opus, on 07 February 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

"I don't get it, whats fun about this? I mean who wants to play with a Building?"

Guess the movie that line came from, and it really applies here.......

I mobile command center yes, perhaps,, dunno...

a 200ton moving target, with a ton of C-bills being wasted on orbital bombardment?

yeah right...

Yea, there's a reason battleships stopped being as viable as they were decades ago....the Super-heavy is going to have the same problem, so it's a waste of C-bills and pilot lives.

[Petroff Northrup]

Jack Gallows, on 07 February 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

Dark Age can burn. It needs to be avoided at all costs.

Also, the Ares itself is a bad idea overall. It has to cost more to produce something like that, the locomotive function of three legs has to be awkward compared to bipedal or quad and cause speed problems, and having three pilots means you need three times the mechwarrior/training to field ONE unit...that's unsound. I don't want to lose three mechwarriors to one machine dying when I can have three 'mechs that each individually have better weaponry and can think independently or as a team when needed.

Super-heavies are rather senseless.

i am talking about the Omega, not the Ares, it is a late Jihad era 150 tonner with 1 pilot and some experimental technology mixed with conventional tech,

[Petroff Northrup]

Jack Gallows, on 07 February 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

Yea, there's a reason battleships stopped being as viable as they were decades ago....the Super-heavy is going to have the same problem, so it's a waste of C-bills and pilot lives.

Well, the battleship lost viability as air power became more dominant and subs became the main force sinking surface vessels.

[Ranger207]

Petroff Northrup, on 07 February 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Well, the battleship lost viability as air power became more dominant and subs became the main force sinking surface vessels.

Exactly. The battleship was outgunned by smaller, faster units. It just couldn't keep up. If you got, say, an equal value (in C-Bills) of some light 'Mech with a lot of firepower, I'd say the super-heavy is going to lose. Poor Lyrans...

[Blackfire1]

Please god no. Atleast not in the hands of players. Not unless there is a huge training time like the Titans in EvE.

[Jack Gallows]

Ranger207, on 07 February 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Exactly. The battleship was outgunned by smaller, faster units. It just couldn't keep up. If you got, say, an equal value (in C-Bills) of some light 'Mech with a lot of firepower, I'd say the super-heavy is going to lose. Poor Lyrans...

Exactly this. The machine's lack of mobility and ease of being able to be taken down completely make it a walking target and waste of money. You get more bang for your buck with regular 'mechs using the same cost to produce, and they're far less susceptible to bombardments from orbit, Arrow batteries, etc.

Bigger doesn't always = better.

[Wolf Hreda]

I would see that Super-Heavy as a big, slow moving, landing pad for any mech with Jump Jets. All that firepower is irrelevant if you can't shoot targets off of your back.

[Kael Tropheus]

This doesnt appear until until 50 years after the game timeline. Provided they keep the timeline togther and progressing like the fluff, I will be 80 something when a superheavy reaches the game. I think by that point we will be on MWO20 something and likely playing with virtual reality with head jacked computers. Likely I will have more important things to do than play MWO20 something by then.

[CoffiNail]

Kael Tropheus, on 07 February 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Likely I will have more important things to do than play MWO20 something by then.

You sir, are no MechWarrior!

[Arctic Fox]

Even if the game's timeline does reach the Jihad, I don't think these things make too much sense to have in the game. Aside from their actual usefulness, which is quite limited, there's currently only one canonical design which was produced in extremely limited numbers by a single factory which was destroyed by the end of the only battle it participated in.

[Ian MacLeary]

Opus, on 07 February 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

"I don't get it, whats fun about this? I mean who wants to play with a Building?"

Guess the movie that line came from, and it really applies here.......

Appropriately enough, it's from "Big".

[El Loco]

After a brief search through sarna.net I retreived this on the topic of "Project Omega" (I searched for 'colossal' and ended up on a non-canonical 200t 'Mech named "Orca"):

"Canonicity

The Project Omega document was an April Fools joke by Dave McCulloch and Warner Doles uploaded to the official classicbattletech.com site. Pertaining to be an official Technical Readout-style document within the BattleTech universe (a report within Word of Blake), it described the super-heavy Orca-class BattleMech, complete with combat history and variants.
Although clearly marked as non-canonical, the design gained notoriety among fans similar to the Gausszilla. Within the document it was classified as a "Dreadnought"; 'Mechs massing above 100 tons are otherwise known as collossal 'Mechs."

Was that the document you referred to, Petroff Northrup? The only canonical colossal 'Mech I know of is the Ares of the DarkAge timeline... a design I consider ridiculous (waste of resources... and I don't mean in game).

I wouldn't want to see 105t+ 'Mechs implemented into the game not because they aren't part of the original BT TT. I often wondered why it was impossible for the wiser forefathers to build machines beyond the 100t (the more so as I couldn't find an explanation of the mass cap). Why I wouldn't wnat them in the game is for another reason... they aren't necessary. From 20t to 100t you have a wide range of 'Mechs suitable for all kinds of aspects of mobile warfare (from scouting to ambushing, from hunting down to sniping to brawling to defending). The heaviest of these 'Mechs are extremely slow... so slow that anything slower could be considered standing still. And what's standing still? Turrets, defensive towers, artillery, etc. etc.

[Arctic Fox]

No, 'Project Omega' was indeed an April Fools joke, but he's referring to the 150-ton Omega BattleMech that appears in Jihad: Final Reckoning (Along with the Super-Heavy construction and gameplay rules). So far that's the only canon 'Mech above 100 tons, at least until the BattleTech timeline catches up with the Dark Age and we see what the Ares amounts to in the board game.

And yes, Super-Heavies are little more than very expensive walking bunkers. That's why right now they pretty much only exist as yet another highly impractical Word of Blake weapon.

Edited by Arctic Fox, 07 February 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[Opus]

This need to have bigger and bigger killing machines reaches a limit; that's what is killing Eve; everybody wants a dreadnought...