55 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

Liam, on 07 February 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

I'm trying to imagine ... but difficult, what if a enemy team will camp on each your mission objectives?
Something similar to base defense or convoy defense:
long convoy, 10 defending mechs. and 4 attacking fast mechs ...
or base defense split the base in 3 far enough from each other 10 defenders 3 attackers

I get the hell out of there, not worth ruining my mech over. Don't like it? Plenty of other peeps wanting me to do dirty work. Whats that got more jobs? heh. pft. Thought so.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 February 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Omigir]

You know, people do this sort of thing in Moder Warfare 3, they are called Team killers. : \

Ironically, they are called the same thing in WoT and in BF3...

if you dont want to be apart of a team, why are you playing a game based on team tactics? Roll Warfare and Objective play.

To me it sounds like you want to be in a FFA, which there may be that game type. Otherwise, without having NPC's it makes 0 sens to have a lone wolf go off on a mission by himself, A, the other team out numbers him and he will die, fast. Or B, there is no other team and he is just running in there and doing it.

Edited by Omigir, 08 February 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[ManDaisy]

I will refrain from replying to this thread as my point is duplicated on the other thread I posted.

[FireNova]

This thread makes me think of the STALKER games where you could join certain factions or simply be a lone merc (aka lone wolf). Like for instance if you saw Duty and Freedom fighting it out somewhere you could either join in the fight for a certain faction or just walk on by like its nobody's business and continue with whatever tasks that were assigned to you.

Another interesting (and fun) concept for lone wolves is, say, for example, Operation Bulldog. The Jaguars are struggling for survival against heavy odds and the lone wolves could sense an opportunity to sneak in and mess with the Bulldog forces whilst they are focused on Jaguar forces, thereby slowing or possibly even delaying their forces by stealing supplies, crippling mechs, etc. Course similar situations could also happen against the Jaguars, Davions, Wolves, and other factions in other events as well, thereby keeping it fun for casual players who want to make slight, but not major differences in battles.

Lots of WoW players are complaining like crazy about MoP (Mists of Pandaria), but thats the hardcore talking. WoW subscriptions have actually dropped ever since Cataclysm and now Blizzard is returning the (casual) fun back into the game. Hopefully Blizzard will be wise about this and continue this trend and stop catering to the thickheaded hardcores that love to rage about anything even related with fun.

I think the lone wolf option and the gameplay behind it is a pretty good option for those who want to have the freedom to choose how to play. Oh noz I said it again: THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE.....something BattleTech/MechWarrior needs more and more of every day that passes here....

[Mautty the Bobcat]

=Outlaw=, on 07 February 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

I don't see any ground to complain here as a lone wolf. What are you expecting as a lone wolf really? A single player game crafted around just you?

As lone wolf, you get placed where you can. They'll add lone wolf specific content in the eventually, but it better not interfere with the core of this game, which is a TEAM oriented game about killing mechs. Who cares what side you are on, as long as you get to kill mehcs right? What I don't want to see is essentially a 'third' team in a match thats messing around somewhere, not contributing to the team because their out doing their own "lone wolf mission". F-that.

I can't seem to find anywhere else that this game is purely a TEAM oriented game... I think you just have a hard time with change personally. As for the Lone Wolf suggestion, you either obviously misunderstood, or are actually just that stupid. The point was that the player/players (probably just 1) wouldn't be part of either team. They would instead get objectives randomly (or depending on the current team's in the case of multi-objective missions) that they were graded on by completing, being indifferent to which team it hurt/helped. These objectives could also be opposed to both teams at once, such as creating a false target (drawing fire), interfering with both sides (create diversions) and more.

This would ultimately create a more open MW/BT universe feel instead of a 2 sided fight that more often than not end up looking like dirty clan batchalls where both teams group up in a single blow and fight one another. Not that I'm AGAINST a 2 team fight, I do enjoy them, it just doesn't happen EVERY single time.

You really want your Team VS Team oriented game? Then the multiplayer should be limited to only supporting games with teams that have multiples of 4 (5*) to simulate the use of actual Mech Lances (Clan Stars*) in the game and prevent all this 3v3, 6v6, 10v10 bullshit. Not complaining so much now, huh?

*Taking into account the addition of the Clan Invasion at some point since the game's timeline moves with real time...if it lives long enough to last to that point in terms of technological advancement.

Omigir, on 08 February 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

You know, people do this sort of thing in Moder Warfare 3, they are called Team killers. : \

Ironically, they are called the same thing in WoT and in BF3...

if you dont want to be apart of a team, why are you playing a game based on team tactics? Roll Warfare and Objective play.

To me it sounds like you want to be in a FFA, which there may be that game type. Otherwise, without having NPC's it makes 0 sens to have a lone wolf go off on a mission by himself, A, the other team out numbers him and he will die, fast. Or B, there is no other team and he is just running in there and doing it.

No, Team killers are people on the SAME team who kill their team mates to either be a Dbag, or to help the other team cause they have friends on it.

A Lone Wolf would be helping/hindering both sides indifferently based upon a THIRD and their OWN set of objectives.

On top of the the Lone Wolf suggestion was adding a THIRD party into battles. I'm pretty sure you COMPLETELY missed that part.

Edited by Mautty the Bobcat, 09 February 2012 - 01:06 AM.

[Captain Hat]

Mautty- The problem is not the intended role. The problem is what people will actually use it for, which is something entirely different. This has been gone over at great length in another thread already: http://mwomercs.com/...nment-solution/

The key issue is not that the idea is a bad one as long as people keep to the spirit of it: The problem is that people will not keep to the spirit of it. This is a potential feature that is rife with opportunities to be a complete arse, and my experience with online gaming is that people almost never fail to take an opportunity to be a complete arse.

Edited by Captain Hat, 09 February 2012 - 03:18 AM.

[Mautty the Bobcat]

Okay, and because that person has been ignoring their objectives this whole time, they are then scored/graded poorly as a Lone Wolf. This causes them to maybe lose benefits, be unable to take higher tonned mechs, possibly if its a repeated offense the admins may even look into it and ban them at worst case. But hey, its not like the Lone Wolf will know who they're shooting at though. Granted, there will ALWAYS be abuse of multiplayer systems no matter what. You think we won't see some team killing F***tards even in team vs team here?

[Captain Hat]

If you'd actually read the other thread you would have understood- the major issue is that this mechanism offers a much greater scope for griefing- particularly for griefing and getting away with it- than if people are confined to the known and displayed OOB. People will do it regardless, but any mechanism which makes it easier for them to do so, and on a competitive level anything that can be unfairly exploited by the more organised units is inherently a bad thing for an online game. This, unfortunately (unfortunately because it would otherwise be a really cool idea) falls into both of those categories.

And people will do it in spite of whatever penalties you apply to them.

Given that this game is F2P, IP spoofing is easy and email addresses are free, even having an account banned won't be that big a problem for the determined ********. People do it in WoT in spite of the auto-ban system for consistet TKers.

[Mautty the Bobcat]

So you're saying that there is not an equal chance of them placing one of their members (or any random that would've become a lone wolf anyways) on the opposite team to grief them in a normal fashion? I took this into account, and griefing WILL happen.

Personally, while this idea is pretty cool in concept and I would love it, especially if you could take an entire merc lance and do the same thing. Unfortunately, its not a very plausible idea and would take coding and testing resources that would be applied much better elsewhere.

Such as planet free roam (I wish), LoneWolf/Lance story/co-op missions with AI. Even battles with AI units involved would be really awesome to play.

[Havoc2]

Know what would be really cool?


If people would stop making posts complaining that a team based game (which MechWarrior has ALWAYS been. Maybe less so in the board games but MW has always been lance vs. lance, company vs. company etc) makes you be a part of a team.

Mercs could be considered "lone wolves" but they still travel in a pack. No one person would be able to pay technicians, repair their 'Mech etc etc.

Canon and common sense not withstanding, the game is what it is.
Online.
Multiplayer.
6-7 months from scheduled release.

[Dihm]

This game is not Lone Wolf focused, the only reason Lone Wolves are around is because PGI is throwing players who haven't/can't decide on a faction or merc unit a bone, and using them as filler as needed. You can be part of a faction and play by yourself and be anti-social all you want, being in a faction will put no constraints on your play time, and no one in a faction can tell you what to do. You can still be a "loner" as much as you like and you can still get Loyalty Points and get rewards. You can't and never will be able to get any rewards as a Lone Wolf.

Lone Wolves aren't going to get all this special development time and mechanics, it just isn't going to happen. This game is about the conflict between the factions, and the upcoming conflict between the Inner Sphere and the Clans. It is a 12 vs 12 team oriented multiplayer game, best get used to it.

[Captain Hat]

Mautty the Bobcat, on 09 February 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

So you're saying that there is not an equal chance of them placing one of their members (or any random that would've become a lone wolf anyways) on the opposite team to grief them in a normal fashion? I took this into account, and griefing WILL happen.

Pretty much, yeah. Not because the initial population of the game will have a higher proportion of griefers than anywhere else, but because once people latch onto this mechanic, a couple of things will start happening. Firstly, existing players who intend to grief will deliberately pick the lone wolf missions because it will offer them a chance to do more harm, and secondly random online gamers who mostly play games so they can troll the rest of the playerbase will hear that you can grief people really well in this game if you go lone wolf, and people will start playing MWO specifically to go lone wolf and grief people. I've seen people (and by "people" I mean "entire forum populations") do exactly that with other games, and since this will be F2P, the barriers to entry for potential griefers are pretty low.

As a result, you will end up with most of the griefers being Lone Wolves and also have a higher population of deliberate griefers than you would have done otherwise, most of whom will choose lone wolf missions.

So yes, if you implement something like this I would expect most of the griefers to be lone wolves, and I would expect a higher population of griefers than you would get if you didn't implement the feature. Its what people are like, and much as it would be fun to have these features, it would cause far more problems than it would be worth.

In addition to which, Dihm is exactly right. The whole thing about role warfare is, it only works when you're part of a team. A scout is useless if there's nobody there for him to scout for, a fire support 'mech without anything to support with fire is dead in the water and even an assault 'mech without screening forces will go down quickly. In most MW games they have solved this by giving you AI lancemates, but in this one your lancemates will be real people- and so will the guys coming after you. That's the whole point. Even individual mercs with no affiliations will be "hired" to act as part of a larger combat team, not just to go off on their own.

Some form of PVE content may be interesting- maybe that's how the Clans will first arrive, I don't know- but the idea of single-player content in a multiplayer environment just doesn't work in the MechWarrior paradigm, particularly (and unfortunately) not in the manner outlined in this thread.

[Shar]

Well it looks like I started something, wasn't really trying to. I was just suggesting a way to broaden the game and make it more interesting the a point blank blast fest. However, the introduction of this subject has really upset some people on this forum. This thread and some others have made it very clear that Lonewolves are not welcome except as filler cannon fodder(ie.. redshirts). In my opinionthe largest amount of griefing will come from faction teams as they will see the lonewolf with little value and thus expendable. To solve this issue the developers should simply dissallow loneeolves entirely. If a team needs some extra wieght to even out a match then they should be computer controlled NPC's, kinda like pets in WOW and LOTRO. Thus everyone that wants to play has to be on a team no matter what. Problem solved.

Personally my interest in mechwarrior online has nothing to do with the various computer/online games put out, but rather an interest and love for the game universe itself. I been playing battletech since it came out as a boardgame. However, given the way MW online is going, team only. It would make little since to play. So I'm signing off.

[jbone]

Being a Lonewolf requires a few things..

1 your independently wealthy on the megacorp scale, or your a Goliath Scorpion Seeker

Here's why

1. Buy your mech, that's a few million c-bills right there.
2. buy your mechanics and engineers to maintain your mech.
3. buy support vehicles, reactor mass, and supplies for paint, and tools.
4. Buy a dropship or hire one, either way both aren't cheap, even a Leopard is extremely pricey.
5. pay transit fees to jumpships
6. Go get yourself registered by the MLBC, and since your a solo your going to have a very impressive F rating (Bang out enough tickets and such you might get up to a D- or a D but since your a solo outfit your never going to climb above a D).
7. Find contracts for solo jobs, most of these would be site security, policing actions, and suicide missions.


There are some exceptions, The Bounty Hunter is one of them, but you have to remember he's a play on The Dread Pirate Roberts, if interested let me tell you about franchise opportunities. He's also a plot device meant to tell a story. Another is those rich video gamers who made a merc company to get more "realistic" they are a laughing joke.

Solo merc's don't last long at all, they either get killed, go bankrupt, or join up with another company fast to help offset their costs and gain insurance against losing everything on a bad mission.

Yes there are gunslinger's out there who sell their services to merc companies and houses on tickets, but they are nearly always multi mission tickets, never a solo job except as maybe a trial run.

Does that mean you won't succeed, no, but the odds are extremely stacked against you.

The other side of that coin is a Goliath Scorpion Seeker, but they have the resources of a clan behind their holy quest. And crazy religious zealot clanners haven't gotten to the sphere yet.

If I ran a merc company would I give a lone wolf a shot, yes, but under the terms if it works he's signing up for more than a one shot mission after he's proven his/her skills, and I'd have assurances they weren't going to screw me, i.e. all those support assets are goignto be held under my authority until we are all back in our hangers, or there is a very sizable bond your putting up incase you decide to turn coat.

[ManDaisy]

or you could just rent or have some of the stuff you need provided by your contractor such as a dropship etc.

[Dihm]

Shar, on 09 February 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Well it looks like I started something, wasn't really trying to. I was just suggesting a way to broaden the game and make it more interesting the a point blank blast fest. However, the introduction of this subject has really upset some people on this forum. This thread and some others have made it very clear that Lonewolves are not welcome except as filler cannon fodder(ie.. redshirts). In my opinionthe largest amount of griefing will come from faction teams as they will see the lonewolf with little value and thus expendable. To solve this issue the developers should simply dissallow loneeolves entirely. If a team needs some extra wieght to even out a match then they should be computer controlled NPC's, kinda like pets in WOW and LOTRO. Thus everyone that wants to play has to be on a team no matter what. Problem solved.

Personally my interest in mechwarrior online has nothing to do with the various computer/online games put out, but rather an interest and love for the game universe itself. I been playing battletech since it came out as a boardgame. However, given the way MW online is going, team only. It would make little since to play. So I'm signing off.

The already proposed meta-game is exactly what you're talking about. Join a faction and fight for planetary control. There you go, it meshes with the universe and gives it more than depth tha being just a "point blank blast fest." No need for special Lone Wolf development. Lone Wolves don't exactly exist in the lore, so as someone coming from the background of loving the game universe, I'm surprised you'd want to increase their presense.

Edited by Dihm, 09 February 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[jbone]

Remember that old clear and present danger movie with harrison ford... I'm paraphrasing

How much is the helicopter?
Two million Dollars
How much to rent it for a couple hours?
Two Million Dollars.

Do you take a company check?

New on the scene lone wolves don't' have a solid rating because they are unknown factors and your going to be paying very hefty rental fees for a dropship and equipment and such. Also when your talking about ancillary services like dropships and stuff being supplied but he employer, if you screw them your stranded. At least you can sell your mech off to get home.

I'm not saying no to lone wolves, but the game should be difficult for them if they want to keep begin solo, if they are very good then they are going to be in demand as a go to gunslinger who's worth every c-bill

[Harrow]

Shar, on 07 February 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Personally, I don't like the idea of being forced to be part of a team. I should be able toplay my character/game the way Ilike to. There is no reason that they(the developers) can't create missions for Lonewolf players.

Considering this game is designed from the ground up to be a team game, perhaps it just isn't the game for you. And no one is forcing you to play it. Or you could try to find at least three other folks you can get a long with as a team and enjoy playing with.

Shar, on 07 February 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Let's say that a faction is about to start a game and they haven't enough players, they either have to drop with players who they may not trust and who may not trust them. After all it very likely that a faction would sacrifice a lonewolf in place of a fellow faction player, just a much as the lonewolf might sacrifice the faction or goal.

Lone wolf would have ended up dead or not paid. Keep in mind that the devs are creating a game based on an established universe. Keeping with that theme. Lets say you /were/ a solo mercenary. You literally just own your own mech and are offering your services to the highest bidder. You wouldn't sacrifice the objectives/mission of the guy who is paying you as a mercenary. In fact its safe to say you most likely want to see those objectives met more so than the House units do in some cases.

Shar, on 07 February 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

The developers should put in place a system that allows a lone wolf player to be a part of or bid on secondary or teritary goals. Thus they are part of the battle the faction is fighting but have minimal impact on the main mission as this is the focus of the faction players but can still tip the balance by completeing these missions.

While your lack of team ethic is at the very least intriguing, the odds are is that there will be inherent 'penalties' for 'lone wolfing' things in the sense you mean. Again, considering it is a team vs team game, why would the developer want to reward people who don't want to be team players? Perhaps they might put in solo missions, but I doubt they will implement rewards in team matches for people doing their own thing.

Shar, on 07 February 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Finally I would like to state that LOTR did the same thing with their instances, forcing players to go as a team or be unable to complete these mission and gain special items needed. They ended up having to go back and make a very large majority of these instances scaleable so that solo players(lonewolves) or small groups coild complete them, as well as, having to revamp the entire rewards system after much player complaint.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. One is a team based first person MMO 'G' and the other is a third person solo or party based MMO 'RPG'. But to indulge, I played LoTRo since open beta and have a lifetime membership. And I will never play the game again because their developers refuse to put out quality content any more. The reason this is important is that many many other people felt the same way and stopped playing the game. Because of this. It became hard to find groups at lower levels since everyone was either at end game level cap or leveling an alt and didn't want to group up since they were only interested in capping and had already seen all the party content. The only reason they went back and revamped that content as you say, is because they knew they were switching to a free to play model and they wanted to be able to hook people with the story again and convert them into paying subscribers by allowing them to do solo content until they reached a point where they would naturally want to keep going. The point at which most people say to themselves, "I might be here a while so let me find a guild and group of folks to play with now." In the end LoTRo's business model is all about wooing the person who isn't paying for the game and ignoring the people who pay and did pay for years. Just look at when all their changes were made. They ignored much of the player community for years. They never balanced PvMP. They never balanced their raids. They refused to limit the grind requirements for tier gear. In fact their whole concept of adding value was adding more grind. Until they lost so many subscribers they were forced into a FtP model and major revamp after selling themselves cheap to Warner Bros. And you want PGI to take lessons from those idiots? Seriously?

Shar, on 07 February 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

So I would say to the developer staff please don't do this to the Lonewolves. It will only frustrate players and cause them not to play. Saying that some stuff will be comihng for the lonewolves latter just won't cut as this only says to the Lonewold player that you don't value them at all. Rather than go through this you just shouldn't allow lonewolf players at all.

Requiring team based play in a team based game? Its a team based game, wether you're in a faction or not, and has been stated already. Just like public server battles. You still have to complete objectives that the team gets credit for. You still have to support the other players on your temporary side in order to get xp, credits, <insert reward here>. Your post is very confusing. Its like you want a team game as long as you don't have to contribute to the team or interact with other players. Perhaps some clarification is needed...

[Harrow]

ManDaisy, on 07 February 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

I get the hell out of there, not worth ruining my mech over. Don't like it? Plenty of other peeps wanting me to do dirty work. Whats that got more jobs? heh. pft. Thought so.

Now THIS quote gives me a GREAT idea for lones wolves and mercenary players in general. A mechanism in game so we can see how many matches they 'dropped' for no reason. I.E. how many times were they a deserter, how many times they disobeyed orders, how many times they didn't show up for the job (afk/idled) during a match. Oh yeah.

We definitely need a Mercenary Guild style Hiring Hall like the ones on Outreach and Galatea.

Then the quote will be:

"What? no more jobs?!?! But how am I going to make my mech payment? What do you mean they actually wanted me to fight? No, I don't need the number for a used mech dealer...well, do you have their card?"

[ManDaisy]

now that... that would be a great stat to have next to any mercenary. But if I was a merc and out gunned 5 to 1 would I run in like some suicidal kuritan? Nope. In all reality a players whos "good" would also be the most knee deep in dept cause they don't know when to cut their loses.

Edited by ManDaisy, 09 February 2012 - 11:53 AM.