23 replies to this topic

[Yanker]

So after scouting in another free online war game involving armored combat of the 1900s, I feel pretty under appreciated and obsolete. I must be crazy to volunteer to jump in a lightly armored vehicle and blitz towards the enemy advance sacrificing my self to the intelligence gods for that second of spotting bliss or just to sit there in a bush along the flank hoping and praying that something comes along (but hopefully not too close to see me) to make my existence worth while. Can't I effectively do the same thing, toss some shots out, and survive in a heavier vehicle?

This is the tragic reality I face when I'm cruising with my top down on my paper thin scout vehicle. I don't mind that it's armor is almost non existent although I do have to say I’m surprised when I survive a heavy shot. What does bother me is my lack of active scouting options that involve living. Dodging, ducking, dipping, dancing, and dodging only gets me so far before my luck bar is out of juice. On that note this is where I beg you to put in substantial weapon leading mechanics and travel times for the sake of us little guys trying to tempt fate and survive.

Survival for the recon mech should be based around speed, stealth (low heat and radar sig as well as good bush squatting ability), and the gadgets! BAP, ECM, TAG, and even NARC while not powerful on their own are indispensable for the rest of the team. These all pretty much go with out saying but some other ideas I had are an insulated reactor type deal to reduce heat sig, light mech friendly terrain, and a good spread of mechs in a match that will give us a better chance of prolonged survival.

Much of this has probably already been considered but just remember to save some glory and an effective worth while niche for the little guy!

[Agent CraZy DiP]

Yanker, get back in your Chaffee.

[LionOne]

Quote

Squating in the bushes for extended periods is not fun scouting.

No, but it is realistic.

Your paper thin vehicle is hidden on the reverse slope of a hill. You = in a bush.

All kidding aside, there is a huge difference between reality and what makes for a playable video game. I can't see dismounted scouts doing a lot, unless they can spot for artillery, etc.

[DaZur]

Yanker, on 10 February 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

So after scouting in another free online war game involving armored combat of the 1900s, I feel pretty under appreciated and obsolete. I must be crazy to volunteer to jump in a lightly armored vehicle and blitz towards the enemy advance sacrificing my self to the intelligence gods for that second of spotting bliss or just to sit there in a bush along the flank hoping and praying that something comes along (but hopefully not too close to see me) to make my existence worth while. Can't I effectively do the same thing, toss some shots out, and survive in a heavier vehicle?

This is the tragic reality I face when I'm cruising with my top down on my paper thin scout vehicle. I don't mind that it's armor is almost non existent although I do have to say I’m surprised when I survive a heavy shot. What does bother me is my lack of active scouting options that involve living. Dodging, ducking, dipping, dancing, and dodging only gets me so far before my luck bar is out of juice. On that note this is where I beg you to put in substantial weapon leading mechanics and travel times for the sake of us little guys trying to tempt fate and survive.

Survival for the recon mech should be based around speed, stealth (low heat and radar sig as well as good bush squatting ability), and the gadgets! BAP, ECM, TAG, and even NARC while not powerful on their own are indispensable for the rest of the team. These all pretty much go with out saying but some other ideas I had are an insulated reactor type deal to reduce heat sig, light mech friendly terrain, and a good spread of mechs in a match that will give us a better chance of prolonged survival.

Much of this has probably already been considered but just remember to save some glory and an effective worth while niche for the little guy!

WHEW! For a moment I thought your were starting a discussion about being frustrated with how long it took to have a bowel movement in the wilderness!

Kidding aside... I think if the pay-out justifies the means, it will be more tolerable. As PGI has noted, virtually everything you do within the context of your role garners you XP... Where as this "other" game it sounds like you do the dirty work while the other players benefit from it with no compensation for a good job.

[Aegis Kleais]

If you're hiding a lot as a Scout, I think you may be doing it right. Though hiding is a part of Scouting play, moving is even more crucial. Ask a good sniper, even they don't stay in the same place (those who do get flanked and overrun).

An effective Scout can provide information about enemy location in a large map in order to move team forces into place to bring weapons to bear upon it. When the assault commences, the Scout can spot-assist team LRM capable Mechs to start providing fire support down on the enemy from maximum range. They can scan the enemy and report back crucial information to those who have sensors that aren't as powerful, in order to better target weak areas of the Mech.

And there will be times where Scouts have to perform countermeasures against other Scouts. This is where they can request assistance from heavies or assaults and then lead the enemy Scout to their team's position. For a good Scout, I think only another good Scout is going to be a direct threat; otherwise the Scout can have a solid understanding of where enemies are and keep themselves from harm while directing with the Commander to coordinate attacks.

[MaddMaxx]

And from the Role Warfare Blog it appears a Scout will not be 4-5Km out and relaying vital data. No idea what the range will be but they seem to indicate the Commander has to be "in range" to receive and then re-distribute said Intel.

Add to that, the Commander should be guarded, so if you are feeling some heat, go squat behind the Command Mech until the threat dies or goes away mad.

[Felicitatem Parco]

So far, with the Mechs they've released, Scouts only have to fear the Dragon. Traditionally, Mech forces are equipped with fast-moving Medium Mechs that carry enough speed and firepower to nail the enemy Scouts as they are discovered, but the only anti-scout Mech we have so far is the Dragon and even then it's not fast enough to fulfill this forward-screening role.

The Scout-role might tempt you to stay in the brush and wait, but I think the Devs are designing this game in such a way that Scouts are encouraged to keep moving at all times. Eventually, when they release some electronics-rich Scout Mechs and fast Mediums, a careless Scout that sits in the brush is a Scout that can be TAGed unawares by an opposing Scout and then pummeled by opposing artillery or outflanked by a pair of fast Mediums.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 10 February 2012 - 01:09 PM.

[Morashtak]

Imagining myself as a commander I'd be pretty upset if I found my recon hiding in a shrubbery. I need the info. And the way to get it is to move. Peek and move. Pop and move. Launch and move. With degrading target info the more "info return" hits I am given the better I can estimate enemy movement and intentions. And that includes visual info as well.

I can see a light, fast mover weaving far to the left and right using their speed to enlarge their info area of opportunity. Their support, a medium, is a bit slower so they are weaving not as far but alternating sides with the Light. The slower Heavies and Assaults are therefore not left too far behind so they can close and support the scouts retreat when needed.

This gives the commander the greatest number of opportunities to collect data, analyze it and guide the Lances into the best firing positions.

TL:DR - Move it, Scout! I ain't paying you to make water.

[Maximilian Thorn]

Yanker, on 10 February 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

...just remember to save some glory and an effective worth while niche for the little guy!

I will always think fondly of the 'little guy'... ...even after I have vaporized him with my Assault Mech (Assault Role for me).

[Black Mamba]

This game you speak comes differently to BT universe in terms of weapon damage. A light mech can sport weapons a heavier mech can use and vice versa, however in this other online war game you speak of you cannot do the same as the light vehicles have puny guns compared to a heavier one thus unable to do any sort of damage.

[Mautty the Bobcat]

Honestly the OP sounds like more of an "I don't like scouting, make it less like scouting so I can fight."

I personally love to scout, the thrill of ducking, dodging, weaving and harassing my opponents while giving positional data to me lance mates. I want them to not change scouting at all, as this is what makes it scouting. If you're personally opposed to scouting, then take a light/medium mech that is oriented towards combat. We don't have the full lineup of mechs that are going to be included in the launch, so its possible that the inclusion of them are yet to come.

My opinion? Work on the electronics packages, the way radar works, make scouting BETTER, not change it completely.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

...

Its called UAV's your a scout its luck as for the guy who posted about his assault ... a lance of scout size can take out an assault ... a single scout can take out an assault with either A. lucky shot, B. good shot.

Dont play down on the lights

[Doolie]

The "other" game really did poorly by scouts. Mediums were better scouts than the scouts. I'm really hoping all the extra modules and gizmos really give the scouts some teeth in that they get points for identifying, tagging, hounding, and supporting their larger comrades.

My ideal is the scout lurking, and enabling the fire support mechs to launch indirectly, and the skittering off to set up again and direct incoming fire. All the while earning points for the damage done thru his targeting. I'd love to play either side of that equation.

-D

[whiskey tango foxtrot]

Rabbit Blacksun, on 11 February 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

...

Its called UAV's your a scout its luck as for the guy who posted about his assault ... a lance of scout size can take out an assault ... a single scout can take out an assault with either A. lucky shot, B. good shot.

Dont play down on the lights

Wise words , I've seen light pilots jump and do head shots many times.......never count out the little guys.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Fast mediums can give you the best of both worlds for scouting and keeping opposition lights away.

Edited by Nik Van Rhijn, 11 February 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[Damocles]

Ill keep my scouts mobile for quick strikes and setting up ambushes via bait.

Stationary scout = failscout

[Mautty the Bobcat]

I'd like to top this off as well with something.

Speaking of MW4, scouts were horribly under appreciated by the game itself due to super-accuracy that all weapons converging perfectly on your reticule at any moment caused. At 800m+ you could get hit perfectly if you broke their crosshairs for a split second. Hopefully MWOs convergence mechanic will allow for some inaccuracy that the previous MW installments never took into account, EVER.

[Yanker]

Doolie, on 11 February 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

The "other" game really did poorly by scouts. Mediums were better scouts than the scouts. I'm really hoping all the extra modules and gizmos really give the scouts some teeth in that they get points for identifying, tagging, hounding, and supporting their larger comrades.

My ideal is the scout lurking, and enabling the fire support mechs to launch indirectly, and the skittering off to set up again and direct incoming fire. All the while earning points for the damage done thru his targeting. I'd love to play either side of that equation.

-D

The lurking concept is exactly it. Don't get me wrong I don't mind watching the rear and sitting in a bush along a map edge to make sure our flank is clear but actually skirting the enemy trying to stay undetected while repositioning, jamming, and transmitting intel is what I am craving. Think of it this way, your assault mech is more like Rambo and the scout is more like James Bond. Staying in the shadows, investigating situations, busting out the cool gadgets, making daring escapes, and getting love from the ladies is what the scout mech is all about.

Mautty the Bobcat, on 11 February 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

Honestly the OP sounds like more of an "I don't like scouting, make it less like scouting so I can fight."

My opinion? Work on the electronics packages, the way radar works, make scouting BETTER, not change it completely.

I love scouting and I'm not saying that I need bigger gunz to kill noobz with but what I am asking is while the light mech does not pack the tonnage that an assault mech does please don't diminish its importance to the team. I'm not asking for a scouting verson of the Wolfhound and to be even more honest I could care less about even having guns on my mech. Sitting shut down in a bush trying to keep your heat and radar sig down so I can keep my eyes glued down one possible approach is not fun scouting. Now dont get me wrong I don't mind doing that if I have to but if that is the cold reality of scouting from game to game I'm going to loose intrest and run as something else or just quit.

As far as your last point goes, its right on.

Nik Van Rhijn, on 11 February 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Fast mediums can give you the best of both worlds for scouting and keeping opposition lights away.

THIS is what I am talking about. Dont let the fast mediums render lights obsolete.

[MetalKid]

I wonder if each dropzone is going to have a tonnage limit. Sure, it might be 12 on 12, but you only get 500 or 600 tons or something total. That'll make those lights a bit more appealing.

[MetalKid]

Aegis Kleais™, on 13 February 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

I sure hope not. That would be the epitome of unfair, and force a lot of players to have to pick a chassis in which they have absolutely no experience, leading to a lackluster gaming experience, IMO.

True, but the other extreme is just as bad. An attacking force is made up of mostly mediums and heavies because that is what they have been piloting. Then they attack some planet that is a lance of only Atlases that are sitting there defending some target in the middle of town. I don't see how a few Catapults and Dragon's are going to take on 12 Atluses...