205 replies to this topic

[IceNine]

I could see stomping being the only real option. If you look at the designs of the mechs and from what I have noticed in past games, their limbs do not have a lot of motion and doing these "melee" maneuvers would leave them open more than anything. Just my .02

[Reoh]

Stomp is Death From Above right? Does anyone else hear the bagpipes playing?!

[Neutron IX]

Well, for myself I'd vote "Melee Weapon", if simply for the fact that then we could see more mech types that have traditionally had to be left out of previous iterations, like the Hatchetman, etc.

[Lusankya]

Melee Weapon for me. I would love to use a Hatchetman and smash someones in.

[Bowrrl]

It would be excellent for melee combat to be implemented. Especially because many mechs from the tabletop that I would absolutely love to pilot wield melee weaponry and because of that have been left out of the games up to this point. Not to mention that I would love to see a Berserker done in the style of the mech art MWO has released so far.

Personally, though it would make me very happy, I don't expect Punching or Kicking but Charging, Death From Above and Weapon attacks specific to mechs that wield melee weapons would add a lot more to the game than just an additional way to deal damage.

As for the poll, Melee Weapon.

IceNine, on 01 November 2011 - 11:19 PM, said:

If you look at the designs of the mechs and from what I have noticed in past games, their limbs do not have a lot of motion and doing these "melee" maneuvers would leave them open more than anything. Just my .02

That is more due to the age of the Mechwarrior games and technology constraints than fluff. In the lore mechs use artificial muscles and essentially move like living creatures of that size would. I think somewhere it says that an extremely skilled pilot can make an Atlas do a handstand.

Edited by Bowrrl, 02 November 2011 - 06:56 AM.

[Majesteria]

Wait a sec ... were is DFA!

[Stahlseele]

Wat, no Ramming/DFA?

[ice trey]

While I would love for Melee combat to be included in the game, I just can't viably see how they could include melee combat in a way that would be intuitive or easy to access.

I once played a beta homebrewed game called "Battletech Simulator" which tried to recreate the tabletop game rules in a simulator style. While there were some glitches, to be sure, another problem was that kicks and punches could only be done with the Function keys - hardly an easy-to-push button in the heat of battle.

[Halflight]

No Death-From-Above?!

*Grasshopper tears*

[Roh]

They already stated that melee will not be in release. And as that is something a game should really be built to support from the ground up it would surprise me if it ever goes in MWO without being accompanied by a huge engine update or something down the road a long ways.

Still it would be nice. I'd go with melee weapons as.. well. Seems like anything else should have a solid chance of harming your own mech. Punching and kicking would be great and all but I doubt I would use it unless my other weapons where completely gone. Now a melee weapon of some kind meant for that purpose? I could see changing my gameplay style to accommodate that!

[Red Beard]

Melee attacks in a mech game are a ton of fun. Other than the "fun" of bashing an opponent, think of the psychological effect that can have on the enemy. If you are piloting a mech that can melee attack, that is a whole new factor to consider for your opponent. Also, it can be a very strategic way to finish off an enemy mech. Melee attack for the kill, saving ammo and heat in the process. If you have ever, (cannot believe I am about to reference this title) played Iron Soldier for the Atari Jaguar(really dating myself here), than you can see how a mele attack can be done in good taste.

[Havoc2]

Dunno how anyone can mention melee attacks and not think of a Hatamoto-Chi laying into an Atlas with a Samurai sword.

[Stahlseele]

}{avoc, on 03 November 2011 - 08:48 AM, said:

Dunno how anyone can mention melee attacks and not think of a Hatamoto-Chi laying into an Atlas with a Samurai sword.

Because this:

Edited by stahlseele, 03 November 2011 - 11:17 AM.

[MagnusEffect]

Chances are good melee won't make it into launch, but...

POINT #4) IT IS TIME FOR PHYSICAL ATTACKS!: Put those mech hands to work! BattleMech fights in the Inner Sphere are brutal affairs and this would only strengthen that experience. People have been wanting this one for a long time and it would definitely increase the intensity of city battles, but this needs to be done carefully.

• Battlemechs are relatively slow, clumsy things. What we don't want to see is lightning fast physical attacks similar to Armored Core or some other Japanese mecha game. Attacks should require some windup and follow through before a mech can swing another punch/kick. ( maybe about 3 seconds between attacks?)
  
• Physical attacks could also cause mechs to be knocked down (one or both parties involved) depending on previously mentioned idea of pilot experience in piloting certain mech classes. Higher experience means less chance of falling. (this should be the same for when pilots receive ranged damage as well; more damage = greater chance of falling)
  
• Mechs should struggle a little bit more to stand back up than in previous games.
  
• A punch from a battlemech needs to feel BRUTAL. It needs to convey a sense of 15 tons of armored fist impacting and crushing another mech's skull. Bits of twisted metal or broken glass needs to be seen exploding off the impact. A physical strike of any sort should at the very least cause the mech that was struck to stagger back a few steps (distance depending on weight).
  
• Weight should also play a LARGE part in this based on the scale of the two mechs involved. An assault mech should be able to lay a 20ton mech out far more easily than another assault mech. A light mech should deal far less damage to any target than an asssault mech.
  
• There is really only one effective way to do it: Assign ONE attack button that is CONTEXT SENSITIVE! (Conker's Bad Fur Day reference)
  
  • Aiming your reticle high will give a punch which may or may not strike the head.
    
  • Aiming low gives a kick, but due to clumsiness of mechs, this can only be done when the mech is moving at a slow speed or standing still. Kick 'em while their down! : )
    
  • Punching a target while charging directly at full speed instead causes a shove which does less concentrated damage in itself, but has an increased chance of knocking the mech over.
    
  • When prone, the “action button” could be used to stand your mech up again, but you should still be allowed to fire from a prone position (depending on how you are facing).
    
  • If you fail to connect with the attack, there is a chance you could lose your balance and fall (again, depending on mech class piloting skill)
    
  • Maybe trigger a button mashing grapple fight sequence when two mechs attack eachother at the same time. The victor would shove their opponent to the ground... just a thought.
    
  • Another idea... (assuming you have hands) using the action near rubble or fallen mechs will allow you to break/snap/shoot off limbs or girders and use them as makeshift clubs

• Actuators:

• Mechs with hand actuators deal more punching damage than those without.
  
• Mechs with just elbows deal half the damage (Warhammer) and if that arm is used there is a chance of damaging weapons in that arm. I would say at least 25% chance.
  
• Mechs with no elbows (Catapult) cannot punch at all, but can still charge and kick.
  
• The benefit of not having hand actuators could be the use of larger sized weapons in the arms depending on the size of the mech (assault mechs should still be able to use all but maybe AC/20s in the arms and still have hand actuators).
  
• Possibly allow mechs without elbows to reverse their arms to fire backwards using a rear camera... just a thought.

• After all this, if you REALLY want to earn some brownie points, give us mech hatchets (hello hatchetman/axeman). Emphasize the brutality of such an attack. That would be epic. Probably would be best if they can be fitted to any mech with hand actuators.

Obviously, some or all of this will be impractical to fit into the game, but a streamlined version of something like this is totally possible if you ask me.

Edited by MagnusEffect, 03 November 2011 - 11:41 AM.

[AJC]

Someone mentioned some mech's with hands actually having fine enough controls to do handstands.

That same fluff also says that only happens in closely controlled and monitored situation.

It can do it but it's not really intended to do it.

Melee if it ever gets put in should be secondary to shooting since even the melee dedicated mech's primary weapons were not the melee weapons it was there for pragmatic reasons.

[Stahlseele]

No, Handstands are impossible, because you can only lift 20% of the Mechs Weight, if you have TSM in there. Else it's 10%.
Which is less than the rest of the MECH weights . . . but really fine motor control of mech hands is possible. Getting a pilot out of a mech cockpit without killing him for example. Even punching another Mech with a Person in the Hand without the person becoming fine red paste.

[Lorebot]

Melee combat is something I really want to see in this game. But remember, without a melee weapon you're often going to do damage to your own mech with a melee attack and Kicks should be very dangerous to employ. Remember, you're piloting a Mech, not a Gundam, the response times and weights involved with what you're in make it dangerous to not have proper footing at all times. Lifting the Mech's leg to kick something could very easily knock you off balance instead, also remember that mass has a really big component in the physics of any melee combat. A 60 ton mech kicking an 80 ton mech is going to be a severe disadvantage, he may deal some damage from the impact of the kick, but it's gonna be like kicking a brick wall and without an extreme response time from the myomers in the legs that 60ton mech is probably going to end up on its back. Punching and stomping I can see being more useful, but still dangerous because you're going to damage your mech's arm or leg so without a melee weapon it should be a last resort unless you severely outweigh your target and have the armor to spare. And if you're gonna throw a punch with a weapon pod you'd better be prepared to lose that weapon for the rest of the fight when the barrel deforms or the control systems dislodge themselves from the impact. Melee without a weapon should always be a last resort, but that also means it should be there to be your last resort

Grasper combat is something else entirely. I'd love to be able to grab and throw an enemy or an object, or even just grab and topple an enemy mech. I doubt there's any smooth way to implement that in the game at this time though. So I'll just hold out hope for future expansions and updates that add it as a feature.

I'd also like to point out that melee combat is one of the great ways the Inner Sphere fought back against the Clans. The Clans hate melee combat, it's dirty, barbaric, and dishonorable in their eyes and when Inner Sphere pilots forced them into melee they had no training or defense against it. It's one of the few advantages the Inner Sphere had during the invasions, they were willing to get in close to get things done. So if you're going to add the clans in at some point then you need to give the Inner Sphere the weapons they need to fight back against them. It's dirty and underhanded, but it's what we've got so it needs to be there for us to use

[Grimjax]

AJC, on 03 November 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

Melee if it ever gets put in should be secondary to shooting since even the melee dedicated mech's primary weapons were not the melee weapons it was there for pragmatic reasons.

Actually while it was not it's only weapon, the Hatchetman was designed primarily to use that hatchet, especially in an Urban setting. .

[mbt201188]

As interesting as melee is it just sounds wierd to me. No mech that I've seen really looks capable of melee, unless it was built with it specifically in mind like the hatchetman. Idk it could be cool

[verybad]

I've always though melee fighting when you've got superpowerful weapons was kind of silly. Should have included a vote for no melee voting IMO because that makes more sense.

If I want a boxing game I'll get a boxing game.