28 replies to this topic

[Yeach]

Could possibly be for suggestion forum
But how would you make it s the game so that is fair using either a joystick or keyboard/mouse combo (or possibly console controller?)

MW3 multiplayer was so weight against the joystick that I reverted going back to the keyboard/mouse.
MW4 mulitplayer was good for the joystick user because the speed you could move using a mouse was limited to the mech torso speed limt and not the mouse itself.

Maybe the MWO developers have got it down pat but I'm just wondering what they would do to even the playing field as it were.

[The Cheese]

So far, there's been no mention of a "floating reticle" like there was in MW3 (mouse control), which moved the arms rather than the torso.

The mouse should control the motions of the mech at the same speed that a joystick will, as it did in MW4. I imagine that it will be the same for gamepads, if there's support for them.

[Fluffinator]

It wouldn't be mechwarrior if it didn't support joysticks and game pads

[FACEman Peck]

Fluffinator, on 19 February 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

It wouldn't be mechwarrior if it didn't support joysticks and game pads

Agreed. Plus, you can get finer adjustments with a joystick than keyboard and most DEFIANTLY better everything than a console. (Xbox sucks!)

[Tannhauser Gate]

uh, what?? A mouse is far more precise than a joystick or a gamepad. I prefer a joystick myself (for immersion and feel) but a skilled kb and mouse player almost always shoots more accurately and faster. Imo, a gamepad is just crap because they were built around aim-assist and even though aim assist isnt used much anymore, the games made for gamepads still condense the controls into abbreviated arcade-style options. That doesnt mean they arent fun but gamepads are not the right unput devices for a complex, immersive sim. .. my 2 cents.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 19 February 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[Yeach]

As i thought, this thread being lost in the anals of the hardware accessorie forum.

MWO should support joysticks.
The question is would keyboard/mouse combo be superior/same/inferior than a joystick; and how will they accomplish that.

[Catamount]

The mouse and keyboard will be more accurate; that's a simple fact. I seriously feel bad for anyone not using a mouse that's at least better than a joystick.

On the same token, a joystick is vastly more accurate than a gamepad, which basically uses joysticks with far less room for fine adjustment (you can make smaller movements on a real stick, because you grab it farther from the base), which also means gamepads aren't going to be made for that kind of sensitivity in the first place.


Are they balanced? A gamepad should basically be a non-option. People claim to use them in MW4, but I just can't see that competing with a real joystick (or why you'd want to do it? Maybe I'm missing something there). Is a mouse balanced vs a joystick?

Insofar as MW4 is concerned, It's my experience that even though a mouse is superior for aiming, it's inferior for agility. I find that quicker up-close brawling type mechs (the dash at your enemy and make them go away with autocannons types) really benefit from joystick use. Longer-rage laser or PPC-based mechs really benefit from mouse use.


It's not unlike when I play BF3. The joystick is vastly better for both jets and choppers. You get more axes of movement in a single controller, and the ability to give a constant movement command by simply leaning the stick in one direction, instead of having to repeatedly "drag" (flying a BF3 jet on a mouse = instafail, imo). Would I use a stick for a tank or infantry, which almost all aiming? Not in a million years.


I'd like the joystick to be the end-all, be all of controllers, because I feel that's more what you'd have piloting a mech. I don't think "piloting" when I see a mouse.

There's room for both though, imo, and both seem advantageous in different situations, so I may well end up using both, depending on what mech I'm using.

Edited by Catamount, 21 February 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[DeltaForce95]

I feel that joysticks are too much, you have to set them up in a way that if used in real life would cause the machine to either not respond quickly enough or too much. You need the forces that are imparted on you to tell you the chassis is moving and etc that goes along with forces, kind of like reverse motion sickness, you need to motions to be able to operate. For any game really except a flight simulator like MFS a mouse and keyboard combo is fine.

[Seth Deathstalker]

I don't really know what the big deal is. Use a joystick in your left hand for movement. You get forward/backward, turning right/left, torso turning, looking up/down, jump jets control, crouch, stand up. What else do you want more. With the mouse in the right hand you get aiming, shooting, firing solution. That leaves the keyboard for the rest.

[Imperfect]

I used to have an old sidewinder (i forget which version it wasnt the first one). After finding this game, I have been so excited that I beat MechWarrior 4 Mercenaries twice in one day. I couldn't find my old sidewinder joystick, so I bought a logitech extreme 3D pro. The 3D pro has a lot more buttons and movements, but it is an okay joystick. I could only get so far with am mouse before I longed for my joystick. I went out and bought it after almost being the game for the first time.

[DeltaForce95]

honestly looking at the console controller it looks like it has potential.
Left stick for movement control
Right for Aiming control/loose weapon movement(cause i have no idea about canon if some weapons can move around cause im more knowledgeable about gundam than I am about battletech)
left and right bumper(or upper bumpers for Ps3) for twisting the chassis
left trigger(or lower bumper for PS3) for left weapon
right trigger(or lower bumper) for right one
Y/triangle for jump jets
A/X for crouching
X/Square for locking on
B/Circle for erm...whatever else you'd need? set the range on your guns? Run through 100yards/meters/whatever measurement is used to 1000 or beyond in 100 or 200 unit intervals?
D-Pad for module activation(cause i have no idea what they're doing but im assuming there are some you need to activate)

My point being just because consoles have brought down/held back the gaming industry because of hardware restrictions, doesn't mean the controller's themselves are bad. I can dogfight with the guys that use their complex Saitek 52s with the throttle quandrants and sub minute of angle joystick sensitivity(ok that last part might have been made up xP)
Edit post script to my point:In certain games, such as BF3 ArmA etc where flight is very much dumbed down for convenience and gameplay value. In such a thing like Microsoft Flight Simulator War edition(whatever it might be called) I have a feeling getting off the ground will be my biggest issue, though I don't see why I couldn't do decently once in the air.

Edited by DeltaForce95, 22 February 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[Morgana]

LakeDaemon, on 19 February 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

uh, what?? A mouse is far more precise than a joystick or a gamepad. I prefer a joystick myself (for immersion and feel) but a skilled kb and mouse player almost always shoots more accurately and faster.

From my MW III experience (4-5 years), mouse/keyboard players ruled. And for that matter, wired mouse beat wireless (less hardware lag). Although knowing this, I did invest in several joysticks (primarily the SideWinder) due to the fact I wore them out! I should have owned stock in them lol. Since then, Gaming Keyboards were created and added a whole new realm to things. I purchesed a Logitech G15 Gaming keyboard, and was able to set up any macros that I previously was able to set up on a joystick. And I never kept the default Keyboard function layouts (ASWD), but reconfigured to arrow keys and surrounding keys, which aleviated hand and finger cramping.

I imagine I'll probably try both, as I still have a Saitek Cyborg joystick in a box, just to get the old "feel" back.

[Gremlich Johns]

I have an xbox PC/USB controller but I do NOT use it because a KB/Mouse/JS is better to use.

[FinnMcKool]

There was something on Twiter that says they are working with some hardware companies to put out some MWO branded hardware.

[Phos]

The mouse is at least as good as the joystick if not better, but there's no way one would be able to be built into the cockpit of a mech. The form factor and function of a mouse are very intertwined. That has me thinking that there's potentially merit to setting up controls in such a way to make the joystick the better option, such as mouse controls functioning as a "virtual" joystick. Anyone have a view on this?

[knighthawk666]

DeltaForce95, on 22 February 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

honestly looking at the console controller it looks like it has potential.
Left stick for movement control
Right for Aiming control/loose weapon movement(cause i have no idea about canon if some weapons can move around cause im more knowledgeable about gundam than I am about battletech)
left and right bumper(or upper bumpers for Ps3) for twisting the chassis
left trigger(or lower bumper for PS3) for left weapon
right trigger(or lower bumper) for right one
Y/triangle for jump jets
A/X for crouching
X/Square for locking on
B/Circle for erm...whatever else you'd need? set the range on your guns? Run through 100yards/meters/whatever measurement is used to 1000 or beyond in 100 or 200 unit intervals?
D-Pad for module activation(cause i have no idea what they're doing but im assuming there are some you need to activate)

My point being just because consoles have brought down/held back the gaming industry because of hardware restrictions, doesn't mean the controller's themselves are bad. I can dogfight with the guys that use their complex Saitek 52s with the throttle quandrants and sub minute of angle joystick sensitivity(ok that last part might have been made up xP)
Edit post script to my point:In certain games, such as BF3 ArmA etc where flight is very much dumbed down for convenience and gameplay value. In such a thing like Microsoft Flight Simulator War edition(whatever it might be called) I have a feeling getting off the ground will be my biggest issue, though I don't see why I couldn't do decently once in the air.

I Like your ideas for the console controller use to pliot the mech I hope u can do it.

[Hayashi]

Using the Lachesis here. For all piloting applications from MW4 to space sims and such I've always found the keyboard-mouse system exponentially more precise than any joystick could deliver, and the joystick far superior to the analogue sticks on controllers. There's a lot to be said for immersion and all that, some people just prefer the feel of the joystick.

Depends really on what kind of control system you're used to. If you just want max precision then go for keyboard/mouse. Keyboard wise, you'll want a gaming keyboard that has no limit on simultaneous keypresses. As the owner of a Lycosa, I'll strongly discourage getting it... the mechanical Steelseries equivalents are superior, in my opinion. But mouse wise, it's generally rather safe to go Razer.

Also, though not mentioned in your post, you'll want a very good sound system, failing which, a stereo headphone/IEM set. After enough time, while precision is determined by visual aiming, response time is dictated almost completely by sound; I find it very important to locate where your target is without having to look.

[Catamount]

@Hayashi
I mouse is more precise, undeniably, but there's are two really caveats there.

First, a mouse is more precise on two axes. By their very nature, mice cannot track on anything more than that, because they 2 dimensionally read a flat surface. A joystick, on the other hand, is capable of Pitch, Roll, and Yaw. This creates cases where a joystick is far more advantageous, because sometimes middling accuracy on 3 axes is vastly better than stellar accuracy on two axes. As an example, I stand by my earlier citation of BF3 Jets. I can't aim as accurately as mouse fliers, but because of the limited agility of the jets, I can come close enough, and more importantly, I have quick access to yaw, which gives me a distinct maneuverability advantage. I very, very, very rarely lose fair battles in that game.

In BF2142, the gunships made even better use of all three axes, because they were hybrids of chopper and jet mechanics.


The second caveat is that mice are really accurate, for small movements. This is the second reason I rarely lose jet battles with my Force Feedback 2 when dealing with a mouse flying. Whereas they have to repeatedly drag the mouse over and over for a repeated movement, which introduces its own control errors, the joystick can consistently send a command continously to any number of axes for as long as one likes.

Mouse/Keyboard wise, I agree on the keyboard. My Sidewinder has such a feature (MS has a good page where you can test your keyboard's anti-ghosting, here), and I rather like that feature. Mouse-wise, there a ton of good mice these days. I personally think the Logitech G500/G700 are probably the best overall for straight up accurate pointing devices.

[Nasty9]

I disagree about the mouse/keyboard being always better than a joystick. I'm a long time joystick player who recently had to use the M/K combo while my new joystick was on the way. Sure it was easier for the finer adjustments while shooting but this only applied to what the mouse was controlling. In this instance where you had to turn the chassis, you lost that fine precision due to the keyboard. Due to this, piloting was practically impossible: I found myself turned around and bumping into things all the time. I won't even speak about brawling either, that just wasn't possible.

Joysticks can be precise, but you need better hardware. Most people have no problem putting down $$ for a good mouse because its a very used and versatile tool. Putting down $$$ for a joystick doesn't always make sense because of its specialized nature.

[Scar]

Joystick can be precise, but it can't be precise and fast at the same time, as mouse can be.