56 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

Coralld, on 24 February 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

Because most form of religions or faiths don't revolve around self mutilation.

No, it's more like self-harm. You force yourself to do something that has no real function and can only harm you.

But let's not discuss this further, NOD is not like real-life religions.


P.S. Funny fact. As much as I love GDI, I first played NOD (because I was a little kid and they had those cool burrowing units) and my bro played GDI. Now it is reverse and trust me, there's nothing worse than having a fanatic next to you while you're destroying Sarayevo.

[Catamount]

I played NOD initially too, but only because I only had teh NOD disk for a long time

[Coralld]

Adridos, on 24 February 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

P.S. Funny fact. As much as I love GDI, I first played NOD (because I was a little kid and they had those cool burrowing units) and my bro played GDI. Now it is reverse and trust me, there's nothing worse than having a fanatic next to you while you're destroying Sarayevo.

I know what you mean, same thing with my brother and I. He attacks my base with Specters, I retaliate and attack his with Juggernauts, he hits me with Vertigo Bombers, I in turn Bomb him with Fire Hawks, and then we Nuke and ION blast each other into dust which is then fallowed by us yelling at each other to "go 'F' your self."

Edited by Coralld, 24 February 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[guardian wolf]

I think that the only good thing that Kane did was actually get rid of the stuff, at the end of Command and Conquer 4 Tiberium Twilight. Other then that, it was a whole BS campaign to me for a dictator.

[Polymorphyne]

Actually the reason why public morale stayed high in WW2 and not in vietnam/afghanistan/iraq was due to several factors:
1# The invention of television. Before television and the War Reporting News cameraman, the war was a distant, abstract thing. Nowadays, the public gets to see the full horror of the war on the daily news.
2# Progression of public attitudes towards sacrifice. During WW2, the loss of 100 soldiers was normal in combat and not even reported to the public. In the modern world, the loss of 10 soldiers is considered a tragedy and a huge failure on the part of the military. The public used to be able to tolerate thousands of body bags- now they cant even tolerate a hundred.
3# Asymmetrical warfare. Its easy to back America when they are fighting highly industrialised superpowers, but its very hard to be sympathetic towards the military that is sending jets to carry out air strikes against poorly armed peasants.

I do not think the NOD would "win" the war, but neither would the GDI. No nation in the GDIs position has EVER won against guerilla/terrorist factions, with the exception of the ones that eradicated the entire population that the terrorists came from.

Examples:
Rome vs Britan- Occupied Britain, fighting never stopped. Eventually built a wall to try and keep the british out. Eventually pulled out completely and left britain for the british.
British vs India- Occupied India, eventually forced out by revolts.
Turkish vs Arabia- Arabia was part of their empire, eventually the arabians forced them out with british aid (and aid from major lawrence). When the Turks and british left, the Arabians immediatly started killing each other again. This has never really stopped.
British vs IRA- IRA still active, Ireland still troubled by infighting.
America vs Vietnam- Eventually withdrew, failing to stop the North Vietnamese from taking South Vietnam.
America/South Korea vs Korea- North Korea and South Korea are still shooting at each other to this day
Russia vs Afghanistan- Russia occupied for a while, even resorted to trying to eradicate the Afghani tribes completely. Eventually withdrew.
America vs Afghanistan- Currently occupying afghanistan, the fighting is still going and likely wont ever stop.
America vs Iraq- Iraq is occupied, still has intermittent fighting and Terrorism.

Edited by Longsword, 26 February 2012 - 11:23 PM.

[Insidious Johnson]

Longsword, on 26 February 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Actually the reason why public morale stayed high in WW2 and not in vietnam/afghanistan/iraq was due to several factors:
1# The invention of television. Before television and the War Reporting News cameraman, the war was a distant, abstract thing. Nowadays, the public gets to see the full horror of the war on the daily news.
2# Progression of public attitudes towards sacrifice. During WW2, the loss of 100 soldiers was normal in combat and not even reported to the public. In the modern world, the loss of 10 soldiers is considered a tragedy and a huge failure on the part of the military. The public used to be able to tolerate thousands of body bags- now they cant even tolerate a hundred.
3# Asymmetrical warfare. Its easy to back America when they are fighting highly industrialised superpowers, but its very hard to be sympathetic towards the military that is sending jets to carry out air strikes against poorly armed peasants.

I do not think the NOD would "win" the war, but neither would the GDI. No nation in the GDIs position has EVER won against guerilla/terrorist factions, with the exception of the ones that eradicated the entire population that the terrorists came from.

Examples:
Rome vs Britan- Occupied Britain, fighting never stopped. Eventually built a wall to try and keep the british out. Eventually pulled out completely and left britain for the british.
British vs India- Occupied India, eventually forced out by revolts.
Turkish vs Arabia- Arabia was part of their empire, eventually the arabians forced them out with british aid (and aid from major lawrence). When the Turks and british left, the Arabians immediatly started killing each other again. This has never really stopped.
British vs IRA- IRA still active, Ireland still troubled by infighting.
America vs Vietnam- Eventually withdrew, failing to stop the North Vietnamese from taking South Vietnam.
America/South Korea vs Korea- North Korea and South Korea are still shooting at each other to this day
Russia vs Afghanistan- Russia occupied for a while, even resorted to trying to eradicate the Afghani tribes completely. Eventually withdrew.
America vs Afghanistan- Currently occupying afghanistan, the fighting is still going and likely wont ever stop.
America vs Iraq- Iraq is occupied, still has intermittent fighting and Terrorism.

So you endorse total warfare? Go back to orphaning all the children, then educate them. Substitute one set of values for another. Been done all over the Americas by various nations against native populations sporadically for centuries. Effective but amoral. That is the place where effectiveness lives...within the clarity of insanity or the plot of a video game. Everywhere else dictates all factions must be somewhat measurably appeased.

[Polymorphyne]

Quote

So you endorse total warfare?

I don't endorse anything, my personal wishes did not enter into that post anywhere.

[Catamount]

GDI doesn't have to completely eliminate NOD, just reduce them to the point of a non-threat. The only way NOD can be anything more than an insignificant thorn in GDI's side is if they have large-scale, concentrated military power. If NOD has that, however, they lose the mobility and ability to fade into the background that's essential to guerilla warfare.
Forgetting for a moment that Iraq is actually pretty stable these days, for a Middle Eastern power (for the moment...), sure, neither the US nor the USSR were ever able to defeat insurgents in Afghanistan, but did those insurgents ever pose a genuine risk to the US or USSR as entities? Did they ever pose a serious global threat to the interests of those nations? Nope. A guerilla group might very easily be able to deny a small area, but only if a defending military isn't willing to expend resources guarding it. Even in Afghanistan, the US can't maintain the whole nation with the force we have there, and likely won't ever destroy the entire insurgency, but Afghan insurgents also can't strike any major US target. When was the last time a serious strike occurred anywhere in the Middle East against a US military base, for instance? None, last I checked. And consider the war's been going on for ten years, 2800 casualties is frankly nothing for a major military operation (it's 2% of our standing force, and probably vastly less than one percent of everyone who's been deployed there), certainly not considering we have a roughly 15:1 kill:death ratio.

It's unfortunate, but do these people pose an actual serious threat to the US or its interests? Not thus far. Blowing up a building or subway once a decade and kill a couple hundred troops a year may constitute atrocities, but the US, let alone the western world, isn't exactly hindered, overall.

Edited by Catamount, 27 February 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[Adridos]

Longsword, on 26 February 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

I do not think the NOD would "win" the war, but neither would the GDI. No nation in the GDIs position has EVER won against guerilla/terrorist factions, with the exception of the ones that eradicated the entire population that the terrorists came from.

Well, Americans slaughtered indians and destroyed their culture, therefor, it is possible to some degree. But that is a bit different situation.

Problem with GDI winning over NOD is the fact, that GDI has support in less than 20 % of human population. NOD, on the other hand, owns the yellow zone, because they aid people there and people see them as heroes. If not for their conquest to anihilate GDI and "ascend" humanity, they would be better candidates for the "good guys".

[Catamount]

Adridos, on 27 February 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Well, Americans slaughtered indians and destroyed their culture, therefor, it is possible to some degree. But that is a bit different situation.

Problem with GDI winning over NOD is the fact, that GDI has support in less than 20 % of human population. NOD, on the other hand, owns the yellow zone, because they aid people there and people see them as heroes. If not for their conquest to anihilate GDI and "ascend" humanity, they would be better candidates for the "good guys".

Hmm, that would make GDI's job more difficult.

Though, I suspect that all GDI has to do is not be defeated, since once they find a way to efficiently eradicate tiberium, and start wiping it off the face of the Earth, it'll fix ALL the image problems they ever had, and then some

[Coralld]

Adridos, on 27 February 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Well, Americans slaughtered indians and destroyed their culture, therefor, it is possible to some degree. But that is a bit different situation.

Problem with GDI winning over NOD is the fact, that GDI has support in less than 20 % of human population. NOD, on the other hand, owns the yellow zone, because they aid people there and people see them as heroes. If not for their conquest to anihilate GDI and "ascend" humanity, they would be better candidates for the "good guys".

True, NOD does help most people in the yellow zones, these NOD "help centers" or what ever you want to call them sympathize with NOD in the whole NOD propaganda of them helping out the suffering. The thing is how ever these NOD "help center groups" do get funding from NOD but are not directly connected or even play a part in the over all day today NOD activity, which is mostly being a pain in the a$$ of GDI or killing each other.

[Polymorphyne]

Quote

since once they find a way to efficiently eradicate tiberium, and start wiping it off the face of the Earth

Anything that requires direct, local delivery to the tiberium is a no go, itd take centuries of painstaking work to clear the earth of tiberium that way.

[FACEman Peck]

I think this idea has gotten WAY off topic with a short historical flame war earlier, lets keep it at GDI/NOD. GDI would win, because they have an Ion Cannon that can vaporize anything. Offensively, GDI wins, but NOD wins when they're on the defense. The Obelisk of Light annihilated everything that came to its walls.

Everything EXCEPT a few Disruptors and a Mammoth Mk. 2. Game over if they're on your front door step.

[Catamount]

Longsword, on 28 February 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

Anything that requires direct, local delivery to the tiberium is a no go, itd take centuries of painstaking work to clear the earth of tiberium that way.

I don't know, I think you underestimate our capability for destructive industry

You know that really big, lush, dense forest that covers the entire Southeastern United States? Of course not, because the whole thing is practically gone...

We can rid entire continents of dense ecosystems in a matter of a few short decades just out of greed; I think human survival would make a more impressive industry yet

[FACEman Peck]

Coralld, on 24 February 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Lets see... Join NOD which is led by a madman who talks about Tiberium being our salvation even though it will eventually kill you no matter how augmented you are. ORE, join GDI and do everything I can to stop the spread of Tiberium and save the day... I go with GDI.

When I join GDI, can I haz Juggernaut? Because I always wanted to drive one of those things and yell into the load speaker and say "I'M THE JUGGERNAUT!!"

You would be the first to die. Attention-getting people make the easiest targets.

[Dark Fortune]

NOD F**KING KICKS ***

[Lonner]

GDI vs Nod - EA killed an awesome game.

The Ending should be something like this: Abel ressurecting in Sarajevo, crawling his way thru GDIs campaing without revealing himself. In the end Abel reveals himself and kills Kane. Puts the Nod Ring, turns to the camera and says "NO PEACE. ONLY POWER!