87 replies to this topic

[God of War]

If MW:O becomes simelar to "the 3 times cursed game which name will not be told" then Piranha can shuff the game up it´s A...!

[Drachenwolf]

ahem!! umm scuse me?? a tank compared to a battlemech hmmmm let me seeee nooo I think a running, Jump jet carrying arsenal of Lasers and missiles with the ability to submerge under water just might outfight a tank LOL for those of you who never piloted a mech before? I feel deeply grieved for you. btw yes ive done the wot thing. So just speaking from experience. cya in my sites yall.

[Kaemon]

Bloody Moon, on 24 February 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

I am amused, really. The business model WoT follows is among the worst i've seen and is only slightly better than some of the facebook "games". And yet here we are, a player actually suggesting it, as the first comment from his account.

Actually the business model seems perfect for what they want...

It's a cash grab.

http://www.cse.com.c...NNEX%209-18.pdf

Whoo, maybe in the future it'll be an IPO then pump and dump cash grab...can't wait to watch that train wreck unfold.

Chuckie, on 24 February 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

I keep hearing this.. but in a months worth of playing.. that has not been my experience.. (and I have spent over $100 on the game.. which works out to about $1-2 a hour).

You're exactly the type of player they want to play WoT.

[Punisher 1]

To the Russians this game is as adictive as crack.

As for the rest of the world we look at this game and see that the rather bland one trick pony that is a true pay to win. ( its fun at first and then you see the game for what it is shortly after ) I mean its the same game over and over. Kill everyone or capture the base. There is nothing that makes this game amazing other than a slew of tanks to grind through in some hopes to get a high tier tank that only seems satifying because it actually plays half way decent.

WoT was supposed to be pretty awesome ( with lots of additional content and options ) and then somewhere along the lines futher development stopped. Clan Wars was supposed to be a big deal and ended up being the same game with some sort of map interface. You played the same game on the same maps with the same objectives. BORING

Everything operated around credits and gold the system for gold cenversion is a huge waste of money, it looks good but when you do the math you can spend $80 to $120 just to convert experiance to get ONE tank. I admit being caught up and spending to much on this game $350.00. But I know many others that spent close to a thousand.

While WoT might look good the core of the game is rather lame and theres nothing to the game but climbing to a new tank which after grinding for hours just get outclassed by a miss match of higher tier vehicles or one shotted by a artillery unit. As you climb the tech ladder the reward gets slimer making it critical to buy a premium account or farm with lower tier vehicles in hope of enjoying a high tier tank battle. I will not dive into balance issues or blatant bias or the hidden buffs for vehicles which will get you banned from the forums if you post them.

[Punisher 1]

Kaemon, on 24 February 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Actually the business model seems perfect for what they want...

It's a cash grab.

http://www.cse.com.c...NNEX%209-18.pdf

Whoo, maybe in the future it'll be an IPO then pump and dump cash grab...can't wait to watch that train wreck unfold.



You're exactly the type of player they want to play WoT.

Most excellent find Sir

O7

Edited by Punisher_1, 24 February 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[Chuckie]

Kaemon, on 24 February 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

You're exactly the type of player they want to play WoT.

Probably.. and the same goes for MW:O

I played the game a number of ways.. free, grind, and $$ I had fun all three ways.. and I see it as no different than spending my money on a movie or going out to a football game.. its Entertainment and if they entertain me, its worth my money to pay them for the service.

My basic point is that I do not see it as P2W at least not on the casual level.. I see it as Pay2GoFurtherFaster.. Pay to avoid grinding..

Is it P2W at the Clan Wars level..? Maybe haven't gotten that far..

I do hope that PGI does change a number of things and doesn't charge as much ?? Sure.. do I think WoT is perfect..? NO


But currently I find it fun and worth my entertainment dollar... Is that OK ?? YOU know that some people find it fun and worth rewarding the investors in the game with some of our hard earned cash..? And as much as some of you hate on it.. apparently there are more than enough people like me that they are doing remarkably well..

[Ewig]

Adridos, on 24 February 2012 - 05:31 AM, said:

Also, unlike WoT, if I am in a Jenner and I fight against Mad Cat, Atlas, or some other beast, I can win. Just a bit of skill and they are helpless against me. It is not like in WoT, where bigger tier = owning everyone.

YES!!!! i also unlike when i just can't damage bigger tank!! i am happy if in MW will like you say!

[Mautty the Bobcat]

WoT is a definite P2W game. Not everyone plays that way, and a number of the people who have spent money on P2W items still play with their F2P tanks as well.

Clan wars is a serious p2w area. They use payed tanks, gold ammo, anything they can get their hands on to make them come out ahead. Many clans even pay their members gold (ingame cash shop currency) for winning games. That being said, P2W is a staple of the game, but it doesn't affect the outcome 100%. In fact, using gold ammo in non-clan wars games is frowned upon by almost all of the community.

That being said, the game itself even is still technically in development. They just recently made a large change to the russian tech tree and modified the USA one some. So, I feel that the game, while still fun, is incomplete.

This is coming from a strictly F2P player on the game as well.

Edited by Mautty the Bobcat, 24 February 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[Bloody Moon]

Chuckie, on 24 February 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Probably.. and the same goes for MW:O

Considering the BT universe has a rather large fan-base i hope not, from what i've read so far it seems the MWO devs are planning to go with an aspect closer to true F2P. Quite some time ago i played a bit of League of Legends and at that time Riot seemed to be succesful with that only cosmetics etc model, tho i stopped playing that game as my friends were playing Heroes of Newerth and Dota (the competition of LoL) so i'm not sure how it functions now but it was goin' quite well.

Chuckie, on 24 February 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

My basic point is that I do not see it as P2W at least not on the casual level.. I see it as Pay2GoFurtherFaster.. Pay to avoid grinding..

That made me laugh, allow me to mention one thing about that: Type 59.

To explain this to those who never played WoT:

-Type 59 is a tank which was premium in WoT (currently it is not for sale as the devs probably realized the game is getting flooded by that tank)
-It is a tier 8 medium (medium! not even heavy or something) tank with a frontal armor that is almost imprenetable to everything but the heaviest of weapons ie arties or t8-t10 tanks, it has high speed with a decent acceleration with an average gun for a t8.

While that tank can handle itself in high tier games aswell it was matched against t8 vehicles or below for MONTHS!
So here comes how it looked like in a "casual" games' reality.

For your cash you got a tank which is faster than almost anything it faces, invincible from the frontal side for 90% of the opponents it faces (10% ie the rest of the t8s of the battle could hurt him but even then that armor was probably still the best of the tier) the gun is again better than 90% of the opponents', oh yeah and you have twice the hp they have EVERY SINGLE GAME (difference is that usually t8 tanks can face t9-10 tanks aswell so the games where you are the highest tier tank is offset by the games where you are the low-tier).
Sure they changed recently to face proper opponents but for your cash you could be as the WoT saying goes "God on tracks" for a long time and i almost forgot you could've earned gigantic amounts of credits in the process.

What is that if not the worst kind of P2W on casual level?

Edited by Bloody Moon, 24 February 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Imagine Dragons]

Hmm... some conflicting opinions here... while I'm glad that MWO isnt going to be built up the same way WoT's progression is, I think the perception that WoT is P2W is largely overblown.

Gold ammo simply allows whatever gun/tank combo you use to penetrate more often. It indirectly increases the amount of damage done, without actually increasing the damage and given gun does (exeception is artilery).

Gold stat boost consumables... are well ... 10%... which for example may reduce the reload time for a 105mm gun by .4 of a second... out of 7.5... its not exactly huge... the other consumables seem to be more for convience but... being a vertern player (same user name here as WoT) they seem more wasteful than useful...

You don't use gold tanks in the endgame, you use tanks that took a rather long time to grind, which paying money would get there faster. However you cannot buy exp, you still have to grind it out.

That being said, I cannot wait to try MWO, and possibly replacing WoT with MWO.

[Bloody Moon]

XenomorphZZ, on 24 February 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Gold ammo simply allows whatever gun/tank combo you use to penetrate more often. It indirectly increases the amount of damage done, without actually increasing the damage and given gun does (exeception is artilery).

Funny, you forgot to mention that the high penetration on gold ammo also increases the range you can safely shoot at the target as the further away the target the less effective penetration your shot will have on him.
For example you shoot at a King Tiger who is 500m away from your Panther II, assuming none of the hits misses (you have a gun with good accuracy). Chances are some of your hits won't hurt him, they "bounce off". When you use gold ammo you can shoot at him safely as the hits will be much more likely to damage him.

XenomorphZZ, on 24 February 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Gold stat boost consumables... are well ... 10%... which for example may reduce the reload time for a 105mm gun by .4 of a second... out of 7.5... its not exactly huge... the other consumables seem to be more for convience but... being a vertern player (same user name here as WoT) they seem more wasteful than useful...

On this i mostly agree with you, they can grant a slight buff only or the ability to repair all modules or a heal to all crew members instead of only one, but if you have to use the latter two then you are already in a serious trouble.

XenomorphZZ, on 24 February 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

You don't use gold tanks in the endgame, you use tanks that took a rather long time to grind, which paying money would get there faster. However you cannot buy exp, you still have to grind it out.

That being said, I cannot wait to try MWO, and possibly replacing WoT with MWO.

Again true enough but 95% of the players never even reach the endgame anyway (i assume you meant Clan Battles for provinces) and even then if they are not skilled enough then they won't have a chance.

See you on the battlefields in MWO.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 24 February 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[Adridos]

Ewig, on 24 February 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

YES!!!! i also unlike when i just can't damage bigger tank!! i am happy if in MW will like you say!

Definitely possible.

[Phatt]

The WoT model is definately not suitable for MWO and I wouldn't play it if PGI adopted it.

I have been playing WoT for just over 2 months and have spent $50 which I invested into paying for a premium account and paying for some item transfer and crew training. I have only bought one gold tank, the Valentine on Valentines day, not because I wanted an invincible tank, but just for ***** and giggles.

The Type-59 isn't as invincible as claimed, because tier 5 Tank Destroyers are capable of damaging and destroying them, but not in a frontal engagement, however they are overpowered for their tier and in the hands of a skilled player very difficult to destroy.

I would be more than happy to pay for a premium account in MWO, say about $10 - $15 a month, but I don't want to see premium mechs or equipment in MWO. There needs to be an incentive to ecourage people to pay for a premium account, because otherwise no one will want to pay to play, and PGI aren't in this for the love, they are in this to make money. I like the idea of increased reward for effort and success, in particular increased salvage, experience and payment for a job well done. This way the people who play the most will be rewarded the most.

I am one of those very old veteran MW players, you know the very annoying ones that shoot you in the arse wihout you ever seeing me. A true MW pilot can pilot and win in any Mech, and not just the overpowered ones.

[Gremlich Johns]

No, I do not agree.

MWOnline would just become world of tanks with mechs and that would be sad.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 24 February 2012 - 05:58 PM.

[Chuckie]

Bloody Moon, on 24 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

-Type 59 is a tank which was premium in WoT (currently it is not for sale as the devs probably realized the game is getting flooded by that tank)
-It is a tier 8 medium (medium! not even heavy or something) tank with a frontal armor that is almost imprenetable to everything but the heaviest of weapons ie arties or t8-t10 tanks, it has high speed with a decent acceleration with an average gun for a t8.

The Type 59 is the exception in WoT not the rule.. as its no longer sold because they didn't realize until it was too late that it was a balance killer.. things like that happen.

Like there was also the Free tetrarch that was gifted BEFORE I started to play.. I cant buy it or research it and it is also out of sync..

Currently another balance issue I have seen recently is in the mid tiers. A most successful tactic there are with the AMX 13 75 or 90s running in packs.. Those you can't buy you have to grind through the 38 and 40.. etc. to get them.

Are there balance issues in WoT..yea.. are there balance issues in STO WoW LoTR etc.. etc.. etc.. yes.. because some kid is going to find a way to game the system and what is "best".

Even in MW:O there will be groups that gravitate to a specific mech with a specific load out because it has been found to be the king of the hill. It happens.

Heck.. I have a great example of just blowing money for absolutely nothing in WoT..

Been in my Priest for almost 2 weeks.. love it.. Been using gold to convert xp, etc.. etc.. to get a M41.. because its the next tier up from the Priest it has to be better right...? NO.. The Priest I built up and researched for FREE is a superior artillery piece. I should have saved all that gold and went on a different research line.. too late now. I DEFINITELY did not gain ANYTHING buy spending all that money and time to get the M41 thats for sure.

These are all balance issues that the Devs of WoT will have to deal with.. thats what will make the game good is if they correct problems as they find them. Currently WoT seems a bit hit and miss on that aspect.. but I expect PGI to be much better at it.

Bloody Moon, on 24 February 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Again true enough but 95% of the players never even reach the endgame anyway (i assume you meant Clan Battles for provinces) and even then if they are not skilled enough then they won't have a chance.

I guess thats my point.. 95% are casual gamers. The platoon and standard match making set up seems to really balance the game as best as can be done.

Again, I would have to say the last 3 weeks I have been on the heavy side of spending Gold.. I get my butt handed to me all the time by lighter tanks, heavier tanks, etc.. and overall I'm at about 50/50 kill/win die/lose trust me if I had a tactical advantage that threw the game off balance I should see it.. and I don't.. (Sometimes I will admit I wish I COULD.. like say when fielding my new M41.. (What a POS and waste of gold and time that thing is)

As you even state use USED to be able to be God on tracks.. They apparently have fixed that by the time I started to play a month ago..

Bloody Moon, on 24 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Considering the BT universe has a rather large fan-base i hope not

Right.. because I am sure PGI wouldn't want bored 40 year old guys with a small to moderate amount of disposable income to blow $50 or more a month a their game.. They rather give it free to the world.. and have the game filled with free loading kids..

Stop me if you think I am wrong.. but I think if they build a game that entertains the likes of me they are a LOT more profitable than if its "perfect" for kids and those not wanting to pay anything or only a few bucks a month.

Edited by Chuckie, 24 February 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[pursang]

Chuckie, on 24 February 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Stop me if you think I am wrong.. but I think if they build a game that entertains the likes of me they are a LOT more profitable than if its "perfect" for kids and those not wanting to pay anything or only a few bucks a month.

Alright grandpa, who let you out? Back to the home with you!

[Chip Danger]

So I tried WoT just to see what they are going on about. After about 2 hours a smashed my head into my desk and went back to reading discussions on the boards here. I would never pay to have to be in a ranked game and get anything out of it.

[Mercy Seraphin]

if there is a god above mechwarrior will be nothing like WoT that game is nothing what so ever a good layout for mechwarrior nor does it in anyway compare to the piloting experience

[chipeloi]

Bloody Moon, on 24 February 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

I am amused, really. The business model WoT follows is among the worst i've seen and is only slightly better than some of the facebook "games". And yet here we are, a player actually suggesting it, as the first comment from his account.

Right....

Might be my first comment on this forum my friend, but i've been in this buisnes for more then 15 years now and i've played MW For a hell of a long time as table top first and then as a computergame.
But all that aside.
What is boils down to is this:

Why are they making this game?
Its not because they like us or want to shower us with free gifts, no because its right to do or any of the other reasons.

Its plain and simple: MONEY

Yes a lot of the develepors will be fans, maby even rabid fans who have played MW all there lives (as some of us are as well).
But all the same they would not be making this game if they and their investors did not think it would turn a profit.

Now the simple fact is: I have money, would I spend it on cosmatic things to make my mech look pretty? Or maby clean up my hanger where I store my mechs? Or anything else so trivial?

NO

I will spend my money on more exp and credits, I will spend my money on mechs that are not availible with grinding, I will pay for service and above all; I will pay to have more fun.
Now if this means I buy a pemium mech or a weapon then I will.

If you don't want to suport the game by spending money then please go ahead and tell everyone that WOT is a money grab (yes it is, i've seen that from the start). Money is how his game is going to run, if people don't buy the premium acount or mechs or anything then its not going to run.
MW.O will be different and I'll suport it with a hell of a lot of money since there is nothing I love more then a Mech from the very first time my friend who showed me how to move my first atlas over the tabletop.
But your bashing in the wrong windows, wot is not perfect, and yes its stalling, but its making money and that's what its all about.
I'm not saying: that they should copy wot but look at it and then grab the best parts.

Again just my two credits

[Mautty the Bobcat]

chipeloi, on 24 February 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Now the simple fact is: I have money, would I spend it on cosmatic things to make my mech look pretty? Or maby clean up my hanger where I store my mechs? Or anything else so trivial?

NO

Several 'cosmetic' pay games would argue with you...most notable is TF2's hats that people pay for even if they don't do anything just because they want that hat now and don't want to let random chance favor them. Another example is a game called mabinogi. The largest profit from that game consists of 2 things out of all their cash shop income.

One is a 'gumball machine' type of item called gachapon which randomly gives people something from a list of items based upon RNG of something in the game. These Gachapon are specialized for life skills (equivalent of crafting, but done differently and include non-crafting skills), warriors, new players, special events, etc. The other item is called a dye ampoule and is used for...guess what...cosmetic clothing coloring. Each clothing has 2-3 color 'sections' on it, these section can be in different spots (say A is the main body, while B is any 'inner' color that shows and the cuffs of the sleeves, and C is the stitching) which varies between clothing. Hundreds of dollars a day are spent on these dye ampoules and they have become a major part of the game.

So please don't tell me that people don't spend money on cosmetics, its a proven fact that they do.

Edited by Mautty the Bobcat, 24 February 2012 - 09:25 PM.