87 replies to this topic

[Bloody Moon]

WARNING: Long post incoming!

Phatt, on 24 February 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

The Type-59 isn't as invincible as claimed, because tier 5 Tank Destroyers are capable of damaging and destroying them, but not in a frontal engagement, however they are overpowered for their tier and in the hands of a skilled player very difficult to destroy.

As i mentioned it is not invincible from every angle but it is from the frontal side (for the lowtier opponents it faced) especially if played well. I know what i did with those t5 TDs when i occasionally faced them in another t8 medium which can be hit by them far more easily than the Type, i can assure you it wasn't pretty.

Phatt, on 24 February 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

I would be more than happy to pay for a premium account in MWO, say about $10 - $15 a month, but I don't want to see premium mechs or equipment in MWO. There needs to be an incentive to ecourage people to pay for a premium account, because otherwise no one will want to pay to play, and PGI aren't in this for the love, they are in this to make money. I like the idea of increased reward for effort and success, in particular increased salvage, experience and payment for a job well done. This way the people who play the most will be rewarded the most.

You are right probably in case they are goin' for the premium account idea (which is one of the few ideas not entirely bad in WoT).

Phatt, on 24 February 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

A true MW pilot can pilot and win in any Mech, and not just the overpowered ones.

+1

Chuckie, on 24 February 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

The Type 59 is the exception in WoT not the rule.. as its no longer sold because they didn't realize until it was too late that it was a balance killer.. things like that happen.

Ehm, balance issues, sure they happen but when a brand new premium tank arrives with features already mentioned AND it gets into matches only with low-tier opponents while every single tank on similar strengh faces stronger opponents aswell PLUS it stays that way for months then i wouldn't call it a balance issue, that's clear P2W.
As for the balance issues you mention in your post, sure every game has balance issues there is no problem with that as long as the devs are not hiding their heads in the sand instead of fixing it.

Chuckie, on 24 February 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

I guess thats my point.. 95% are casual gamers. The platoon and standard match making set up seems to really balance the game as best as can be done.

Allow me to tell you something about that "standard match making", here is how it works:

-It more or less balances the arties on each side succesfully.
-Every light, medium, heavy tank and TD has a strengh number, the game balances the teams by those numbers (as far as i know those are hidden server side numbers so we don't know anything about them).

And nothing else is done.

Now this causes the situation where similar tanks can get stacked on one side ie only medium or only td team but i've seen 8 light tanks on one side aswell. Also Platoon stacking, while it may not seems like that much of a problem Platoons of 2-3 people each assumes the coordination of the team which have more Platoons will be better than the one which has only a bunch of solo players.
As i played a lot of multiplayer games from CoD to LoL, HoN, SC2 etc sometimes even on competitive level i say a skill+team+unit strengh based matchmaking functions much better than the almost entirely random one in WoT.

Chuckie, on 24 February 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

As you even state use USED to be able to be God on tracks.. They apparently have fixed that by the time I started to play a month ago..

Sure, however it took several months to change one i repeat ONE number in the matchmaking system while it was obvious from the beginning that number (coincidentally the one that defines the opponents) is not synced with the rest of the tanks on similar strenght level.

Chuckie, on 24 February 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Right.. because I am sure PGI wouldn't want bored 40 year old guys with a small to moderate amount of disposable income to blow $50 or more a month a their game.. They rather give it free to the world.. and have the game filled with free loading kids..

Stop me if you think I am wrong.. but I think if they build a game that entertains the likes of me they are a LOT more profitable than if its "perfect" for kids and those not wanting to pay anything or only a few bucks a month.

Riot and the League of Legends begs to differ, guess who earns more WoT with it's 3million accounts or LoL with 15 million accounts the online player base follows in similar fashion to the accounts 91000 is the record WoT holds, LoL has 500000+ in peak times.

Anyway PGI chose the F2P model so they already give the game for free to the "free loading kids".

I only want them to follow an example which is not the P2W WoT example while i saw that the model i suggest is perfectly viable aswell without P2W.

chipeloi, on 24 February 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

I will spend my money on more exp and credits, I will spend my money on mechs that are not availible with grinding, I will pay for service and above all; I will pay to have more fun.
Now if this means I buy a pemium mech or a weapon then I will.

I'm quite the opposite, while i do have the money to buy those i am proud of my skill in games so i want every free loader to have the same chance in a battle as me, someone who payed for something in the game. That is why i would only buy what doesn't effect the gameplay in combat scenarios and prefer if everyone does the same as while i am proud still dislike playing handicapped.

chipeloi, on 24 February 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

If you don't want to suport the game by spending money then please go ahead and tell everyone that WOT is a money grab (yes it is, i've seen that from the start). Money is how his game is going to run, if people don't buy the premium acount or mechs or anything then its not going to run.
I'm not saying: that they should copy wot but look at it and then grab the best parts.

You are telling that to the wrong one. I would support MWO as i supported HoN (even with the very minor P2W aspect nowadays) and a couple of other games, but i only do so if they are not greedy like WG (the devs of WoT). The difference between the two is that WoT DEMANDS support, everything in the game points towards PAYPAYPAY, while there are games that can be profitable by asking or "charming" the customers into paying.

[pursang]

Bloody Moon, on 25 February 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

-Epic boast post-

The only thing that I'll add to that is that a truly good game will make you want to pay money for it on a constant basis, while a mediocre game will shove its arm down your throat and demand more money from you in the process. I'm not saying one is better then the other, only that I feel that a game should be about skill: Not about how much money you have invested.

My (biased) opinion.

Edited by pursang, 25 February 2012 - 04:02 AM.

[Scar]

WoT is a nice and most successful non-fantasy F2P MMO - i wish to MWO to become at least as half as successful as WoT is - for the gladness of all BT&MW fans.

Long live to MWO!

[Chuckie]

Bloody Moon, on 25 February 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

You are telling that to the wrong one. I would support MWO as i supported HoN (even with the very minor P2W aspect nowadays) and a couple of other games, but i only do so if they are not greedy like WG (the devs of WoT). The difference between the two is that WoT DEMANDS support, everything in the game points towards PAYPAYPAY, while there are games that can be profitable by asking or "charming" the customers into paying.

Not to

1) IGP / PGI is in it to make money..

2) To reach that #1 goal the game has to be fun, to a point addictive and above all attract people wanting to spend money

3) What they do with MW:O will be focused towards that #1 goal

4) See #1

I HIGHLY expect if the game is great and yet everyone only pitches in $5 for a skin, etc.. they will adjust the game to get people to pay more.

Because the millions that pay less that $10 and feel entitled to play a game for free MAY keep the lights on. but they sure don't help a company turn a profit ( Check the internet graveyard for all those other F2P and cheap MMO games..). It's the over spenders, the bored guys (and gals) with disposable income that they make their profits on. So TRUST ME they want a lot of players like me, and if they had a choice of 100,000 players like me and 1,000,000 freeloaders or the other way.. they will want it the otherway around.. what BUSINESS wouldn't..?

Mautty the Bobcat, on 24 February 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

So please don't tell me that people don't spend money on cosmetics, its a proven fact that they do.

NO Doubt.. but there has to be a balance out there.. and I trust PGI will find the balance.

pursang, on 24 February 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Alright grandpa, who let you out? Back to the home with you!

Get off my LAWN !!! YOU Meddling kids..

Edited by Chuckie, 25 February 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[Fiachdubh]

Having been trying out WoT over last fortnight I say, not a chance, while maybe a couple of ideas worth using overall a WoBT would be disastrous. WoT will not be staying on my HD very long.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 25 February 2012 - 12:18 PM.

[Six6VI]

I'm sure they will look at some aspects of WoT, but please don't make it the model. There are some things I do not like about that game. Matchmaking seems "a little" off. Of late, it seems that I see more and more games that give one team or the other a significant advantage in team strength. I do like a challenge, but sometimes it is over the top. I have spent a decent amount of money on this game, and IMO the gold rounds (Ive never used them though) is a bit much even for paying players. The Devs promise fixes here and there and don't deliver. There ae more gripes, but I am not about to get into it as I am sure they have already been brought up in this thread or others.

[Chuckie]

Fiachdubh, on 25 February 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Having been trying out WoT over last fortnight I say, not a chance, while maybe a couple of ideas worth using overall a BT clone of WoT would be disastrous. WoT will not be staying on my HD very long.

True.. I think what everyone is missing is SOME (Not ALL) elements of WoT are really good and PGI would do well to bring them in.

I Doubt seriously it will be a BT Clone of WoT and wouldn't want that. I also seriously doubt buying a shiny red coat of paint for my Awesome will be a good way for PGI to make money.. making me pay to jump over all the other Mechs and not grind would be.

Personally I KNOW I would pay $50 to start in an Awesome.. it would be about the same as buying a game in the first place and would be a fair price.

The 3 major money things I think need to definitively NOT find their way into MW:O that WoT uses are:

1) Paying heavy price for training crew/pilot (Which since MWO doesn't have crew isn't an issue)

2) Paying heavy price for exchanging Credits for XP

3) Having to BUY Ammo that is significantly better than stock ammo just to be competitive (That to me is a P2W issue)

Something I hope they DO add..

1) If I don't want to grind up a Mech tree to get into a better class of Mech.. or a specific mech.. I should be able to outright buy it (THink they said this is already the case)

2) Ability to simply buy XP.. I'm old enough if I want a Awesome with double heat sinks and 4 ER PPCs.. I don't want to grind for it.. Grinding doesn't make them any money. Charging me a fair exchange rate of XP for my time is.

3) No matter what Pilot XP should not be able to be bought or sold.. This would seperate the P2W from the F2P crowd.. EVERY PILOT is on the same ground..

Its just like the real world.. with enough money you can buy anything "material" you want.. A Mech is just parts available for sale..

Think a Maserati dealer cares a 16 year old with no experience is going to wreck his new $100000 car, or that the fact he just sold a $100000 car ? Going with the later. The 16 year will have to learn to drive that car.. thats experience he only gets with time and he (nor their apparent rich family) can give or buy for him.

See anyone can buy a Maserati though.. if they save their money and get a good job, etc.. but that takes time.. But time money can circumvent.

Quite simple you think of it that way.

Edited by Chuckie, 26 February 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Bloody Moon]

Chuckie, on 25 February 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

*Now that system would be much more acceptable than WoT's.*

I agree with most of your suggestions, however i'd like to add some ideas to your summary.

1. Every unique stat the mechs' have needs to be released. While we already know a decent amount of them if MWO will follow the cannon sources, there are some we are missing and will be important. For example the turning rate of each mech while stationary and while moving (in case these numbers won't be shared with every mech which i seriously doubt) or the mounts slots/weapons the mech can handle or the heat they can absorb without heat sinks. This way it would be guaranteed if someone invests money or time in a mech he couldn't blame PGI if he won't like the mech he ends up with (some will do so no matter what but in the end they'll have no base for their claims).

2. I would prefer the much less grind for money instead of no grind at all for one reason only, probably the matchmaking in random battles will balance by weight along with some other factors, if a total newbie buys one of the heaviest of assault or heavy mechs (which is a general online gaming tendency) he can be a serious liability and annoyance factor for the rest of the team (standing in base looking around effect) even more annoying if we end up with 8v8 matches instead of 12v12. If everyone has to play for a while in general mechs before getting into the top one this would be solved or atleast it could be less pronounced. This is only one way to solve the problem, if the matchmaking system will be well built to handle this the instant buy can exist aswell.

Other than these what you explained would be a correct system in my opinion.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 26 February 2012 - 03:59 AM.

[Punisher 1]

Anyone remember the Term " Wallet Warriors" this is where the developer offers a item that gives the player an advantage over others. Those that have money can afford these toys those that do not have the money will not have this advantage. This system while lucrative to the development team which is great for them because they can continually release vehicles at a dollar amount that players will buy to one up the next guy.

It's a digital arms race that in the end only works for the developer and leave the fan base feeling used and not so happy, what the level of popularity of WoT these days?

WoT scheme or scam is to offer an addictive game play where you are not beating a computer but another person, they play on this particular human "flaw" by offering any easy way to a higher chance of success buy the use of money to buy gold to buy worthless in game items. At one time they called gold "Comfort Gold" meaning buy using a premium account the pain of grinding for hours or days or weeks to get a top tier vehicle is slightly less painful.

However what most people miss is that no matter how high on the ladder your vehicle is the game is the same each and every time. There’s really nothing interesting to this game but climb the vehicle ladders and play a different type of vehicle.

Overall this game left me feeling like I was scammed in the end.
MWO could follow a free to play game with a pay for other cool benefits however the climb should be a gratifying one with interactive maps and features. If they offer a conquest of zones these Zones should have exclusive maps and content that CANNOT be accessed in normal game play. MWO can even offer that content to premium account holders for a minimum fee each month.

Additionally it would be great to have a market for those to complete micro transactions to earn a premium account hence opening up possibilities for those that cannot afford paying to play.

Edited by Punisher_1, 26 February 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[Chuckie]

Bloody Moon, on 26 February 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

I agree with most of your suggestions, however i'd like to add some ideas to your summary.

1. Every unique stat the mechs' have needs to be released. While we already know a decent amount of them if MWO will follow the cannon sources, there are some we are missing and will be important. For example the turning rate of each mech while stationary and while moving (in case these numbers won't be shared with every mech which i seriously doubt) or the mounts slots/weapons the mech can handle or the heat they can absorb without heat sinks. This way it would be guaranteed if someone invests money or time in a mech he couldn't blame PGI if he won't like the mech he ends up with (some will do so no matter what but in the end they'll have no base for their claims).

2. I would prefer the much less grind for money instead of no grind at all for one reason only, probably the matchmaking in random battles will balance by weight along with some other factors, if a total newbie buys one of the heaviest of assault or heavy mechs (which is a general online gaming tendency) he can be a serious liability and annoyance factor for the rest of the team (standing in base looking around effect) even more annoying if we end up with 8v8 matches instead of 12v12. If everyone has to play for a while in general mechs before getting into the top one this would be solved or atleast it could be less pronounced. This is only one way to solve the problem, if the matchmaking system will be well built to handle this the instant buy can exist aswell.

Other than these what you explained would be a correct system in my opinion.

That's why I think the modules and XP tree for the pilots/commanders needs to not be able to be circumvented with cash at all.. you have to "grind" or earn it.. Pilot/Commander skills are what you know..

SO when it comes to match making,, they could have an algorithm based on Pilot skill COMBINED with Mech size and stats =.

So high level Hunchback pilot balances the N00B in a Atlas..

This all comes back to a simple thing.. we don't know how this game is done yet and PGI will defiantly work on balancing, P2W vs F2P etc.


Hopefully they will look at what works in WoT, WoW, EvE, ST:O and others...and use bits and pieces of them where appropriate. Mix it together with some good old Mechwarrior, a bit of Battletech lore, then add in some outstanding graphics (It is on the Cry3 Engine after all) and give us one of the best games to come out in a VERY long time..

That's what I am looking forward too..

[Pht]

Ewig, on 24 February 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

You must look WORLD OF TANKS! you well see perfect model of gameplay for MWonline

sorry, I'm not very good writing in English

but I love the MW universe and is my duty to show you a successful project in a similar field.

http://worldoftanks.ru/game/

WOT I gather is a cool and fun game, but there already exists a good place to get game play balance for any MechWarrior Video game... http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__107060

... and contrary to the fear mongering, it would make for a very fun game.

Edited by Pht, 26 February 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Phatt]

I don't mind if people want to use their wallets to buy Mechs and Equipment, what I don't want to see is overpowered premium mechs and equipment that can only be purchased with yur wallets. All Mechs, Equipment and features of the game shoud be available to everyone. That way the "Free loaders" who have the time to grind will be able to make credits in game and the "Wallet warriors" can spend their excess income on the game if they whish to do so. I can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on a game as I have more important commitments to meet, however I can afford to spend about $15 a month on an MMO. Also they need to avoid the whole "Freeloader" v's "Wallet Warrior" syndrome that WoT has created by not identifying what type of account you have, and not having premium only items in the game. Every item and feature in game should have a dual purchase price, Gold and Silver, Gold = Wallet purchased currency and Silver = in game earn't currency.

I thought the LOTRO and Eve online systems had some very good features that might work well in MWO as well.

[BigDuke66]

This game can get anything as long as it isn't going to be like WoT.

Played almost 500 battles and now I quiet fed up with it, it is really just setup the way that the player gets frustrated and decides to give them real money to get over all those crappy spots in that game.
Maybe it will be interesting one day but for now it just doesn't capture the player because this "I collect tanks and upgrade them" layout doesn't get over the poor, boring, frustrating gameplay.

[Chuckie]

Actually I am in WoT now.. but its been a while.. neat new maps.. but have to say.. it has gotten repetative.

I REALLY REALLY hope that the guys allow fans to make maps and use them.. Maybe an on going "competition" and once every other week or so a new map gets into the game. Having only the same dozen or so maps in WoT is killing it..

I mean changing up the maps too wouldnt hurt.. What I would LOVE to see is some kind of random map generator. OVerall teh map stays the same.. but hills get taller, or shorter, they move within a certain area, etc.. that way although its the same map each time.. lines of sight, etc.. change just enough you never know where the choke points are or the best sniper locations, etc..

Just thought of one thing.. MANY Mechs are the same speed, similar layouts, etc.. just look different. I can see PGI having CASH Only Mechs... that aside from looking different are no better or worse than other Free Mechs..

With what we now know of the MechLab (and the fact the AWESOME is in the GAME ) looks like everything I want is in the game.. just a matter of how long it takes to get to it.

[eZZip]

Bloody Moon, on 26 February 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

If everyone has to play for a while in general mechs before getting into the top one this would be solved or atleast it could be less pronounced. This is only one way to solve the problem, if the matchmaking system will be well built to handle this the instant buy can exist aswell.

I agree with the second statement. That's a great possibility with good matchmaking: you can play as whatever you want, but you aren't terribly detrimental to your team. Of course, an excellent matchmaking system is difficult to make and realistically, there will frequently be imbalances.

As for the first suggestion (in the quotation), making people grind does not make them good.

Edited by eZZip, 13 April 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Chuckie]

eZZip, on 13 April 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

I agree with the second statement. That's a great possibility with good matchmaking: you can play as whatever you want, but you aren't terribly detrimental to your team. Of course, an excellent matchmaking system is difficult to make and realistically, there will frequently be imbalances.

As for the first suggestion (in the quotation), making people grind does not make them good.

I often go into company games as a Tier2 T2LT when everyone is Tier 8-10... a good scout is a good scout.. Also a good scout, is also a scout that can get knocked on his butt in one shot.. no matter what when facing T8-T10 tanks. So I go for speed and maneuverability.

[Fynn]

Biggest issue with WoT is the lack of game modes, lack of custemer surport, and the fact that bugs that have been in the game since the beta are still there, and the devs wont attempt to fix (working as intended is there fav quote), also the devs dont listern to the player base either.
Also lately, the weekend specials have been desinged to get players to buy gold, get cheap gold ammo, which is used even more now in random battles, and not just Clan wars, Half price gold consummables and so on, with just the odd tid bit for the F2P players.
I do play WoT, get my premium once a month and convert some xp, and yes i do buy gold ammo, but thats for CW and tier 8 tank company use only, as i am in a clan, and we fight in Clan wars almost every night.
So the fact that WG ram buying gold down your thoat almost every day is, imho, a bad thing, and i hope MW:O DONT adopt that style of bussiness.

Side note i know this is my first post, and its a small rant, but i will add that i have played MW2,3 and 4, and also played the TTG as well

Edited by Fynn, 14 April 2012 - 02:09 AM.

[MagnusEffect]

I'm surprised this thread is still open. I took one look at the OP and immediately assumed it was troll bait... at least I hoped it was. Or a kid who doesn't know any better.

[Runz]

The idea of 'grinding' through mech levels is a terrible one; Mechwarrior is largely based around team tactics and it's the team with a balanced composition that co-ordinates that usually wins. Obviously I'm talking about other MW games here but I imagine that's what PGI are going to want to maintain because it's what most of us love about the BT universe and MW games. Every weight class of Mech has their role, just because something is an assault mech doesn't mean it is inherently better the light/medium/heavy mechs. The concern that if you let the Atlas be available from Day One everyone is going to jump in an Atlas and the game's wrecked doesn't fit with the game ethos, as someone else pointed out a Jenner can trash an Atlas if played well and as the Devs have already pointed out in their playtesting, an Atlas that leaves its support mechs gets absolutely trashed and in one battle it was 2xAtlases vs (I think) a Light and a Medium mech - the Light/Medium team won. This doesn't appear to fit with WoT's grind the tiers for better, invincible tanks at all and I really hope no such model is ever adopted with MWO else you'll see a lot of disappointed BT fans leaving the game.

With regards to people arguing that PGI needs to make cash so will probably adopt a similar P2W strategy to WoTs...

POPPYCOCK, POPPYCOCK I SAY SIR!

Look at League of Legends! There is absolutely no P2W there, but there is the ability to buy riot points which will; unlock new champions (not necessarily better champions, just different), XP Boosts, IP Boosts and A LOT of cosmetic skins. In fact IP Boosts and the cosmetic skins are probably the biggest money earners, people like to be unique and special snowflakes. I would hazard that there are more than enough players prepared to pay for cosmetic skins to make MWO profitable, combine that with may XP Boosts and (possibly) C-Bill boosts or boosts to purchasing different modules or something then PGI will be laughing. Considering most pilots have a deep affection for their chosen mech and loyalty to their unit and faction, customisation is likely to be a big thing.

I remember reading sometime back (last year maybe) in PC Gamer that it only takes between 5% - 7% of players to pay for a reasonably well supported F2P game to be "immensely profitable".

If you'd like to see a well thought out thread about how to balance starting out in the game you could worse than looking at this thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...ationsupgrades/

A set amount of starting C-Bills that means you can buy a nice light mech with enough upgrades to give it a decent amount of versatility blowing the whole lot on an Atlas with very little remaining cash for modifying the mech (and keeping it running ofc).

Don't use WoT as a model, there are much better ways of doing it!

[Carebear]

I agree. Dont turn this into free to play kiddy hell. Free to play already gives us free unlimited demo, but of course free gamers should be able to play and compete with the rest of us. Choose partners well, Steam, Perfect World Entertainment, theres lots of digital publishers etc. More money they get, more faster we get content. Aye, in short, get customers with money.

Edited by Carebear, 14 April 2012 - 03:44 AM.