75 replies to this topic

[Alicorn]

Xanquil, on 29 February 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

...this is just taking it to an extreem. Real world example, M1A1 Abrams is 60t(+/-) and a little under 8m at it's longest.(not counting Main gun). 12-14m I could beleve(just barely) but 18m not even remotely.

An important note to place here is that the Abrams is only 60tons, while the Atlas is a full 100. That's a 2/3 increase, so just stretching the Abrams out for that added mass would result in around 13.2m. Shuffle things around and 18m isn't that far off - after all, mechs are a little more limb-y and have larger profiles than similarly-weighted tanks, which are more or less simple boxes.

[DaZur]

Dennis de Koning, on 29 February 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

To clarify, the Atlas is 18m and the technician is 1.9m.

1.9m? You know high-heels and no steel-toes in a work environment is an OSHA no-no not to mention a fashion faux pas... right?

Edited by DaZur, 29 February 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[Outlaw2]

Dennis de Koning, on 29 February 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

To clarify, the Atlas is 18m and the technician is 1.9m.

Can you post here the heights of the other mechs released so far?

Edited by =Outlaw=, 29 February 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[Chuckie]

Dennis de Koning, on 29 February 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

To clarify, the Atlas is 18m and the technician is 1.9m.

Them some tall Techs (6'-3") but that makes sense Tech Taller = Mech Taller..

I Love how the Devs sometimes step in and give us real answers and stiffle rampant guessing and speculation..

Thanks Dennis..

Edited by Chuckie, 29 February 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Phelan Adam Davion]

DaZur, on 29 February 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

1.9m? You know high-heels and no steel-toes in a work environment is an OSHA no-no not to mention a fashion faux pas... right?

Over here in North Germany 1.9m is the Standart Size of a man.... and watching the development of good meals and good health I won`t mind if every man in the 31st century is 2m tall.

the measures and sizes in the trailer look very good to me.

[Mason Grimm]

That's not overly tall man. I'm 6'2 and several of the guys on my department are 6'1+

One guy is 6'5 and is a beast in bunker gear.

[Dragon Lady]

Dennis de Koning, on 29 February 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

To clarify, the Atlas is 18m and the technician is 1.9m.

What is it about "giant robots" of all types that makes people want to scale them up? Battlemechs have always been "six times the height of a man," ranging from between 10 to 12 meters. This is supported both in the game rules and primary literature.

According to the tabletop rules, each elevation level is 6 meters high, and according to the table top rules, two elevation levels (12 meters) are sufficient for a Battlemech to hide behind.

The leopard class dropship (pictured in the video) is canonically 22 meters tall, with doors that are about 13 meters high. The Leopard dropships' cramped mech bays don't have any room for the larger repair platforms or heavy equipment cranes seen on larger 'Mech carriers.

The Union dropship is 78 meters tall, and its two "cavernous" mech bays makes up about a third of the ship, which means that their minimum height is, again, about 13 meters... though I suspect that it sacrifices living quarters for the above mentioned repair platforms and heavy equipment cranes.

The Overlord dropship is 131 meters tall, and its three-level mech bay again makes up about a third of the ship, which yields the height of each level to be about 14 meters.

One other thing to consider. By my very rough calculations, at 18 meters tall, an Atlas would displace about 120 cubic meters of water. One cubic meter of water = 1 metric ton. So... an 18 meter tall Atlas should be able to float. A 12 meter tall Atlas, OTOH, would have a density of about 66% of carbon steel.

Granted, having the 'Mechs about 50% taller than what they should be won't make this game any less appealing, but let's keep things consistant with canon. Of course, my own initial estimate of the height of the Atlas in the teaser was 12-13 meters, so...

[Xanquil]

Alicorn, on 29 February 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

An important note to place here is that the Abrams is only 60tons, while the Atlas is a full 100. That's a 2/3 increase, so just stretching the Abrams out for that added mass would result in around 13.2m. Shuffle things around and 18m isn't that far off - after all, mechs are a little more limb-y and have larger profiles than similarly-weighted tanks, which are more or less simple boxes.

If you don't like the Abrams as a referance than how about the O-I superheavy 100-120t http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-I
even adding 50% to the size for arms and legs (10m/L 4.2m/W 4m/H) and up ending it, that would only be 15m tall. and that is useing WW2 tech. 18m is just way to big for 100t, which is why It falls into the catagory of "Battletech Physics"

Don't get me wrong I love battletech, and I have sence it first came out.

Edited by Xanquil, 29 February 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[Outlaw2]

=Outlaw=, on 29 February 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Can you post here the heights of the other mechs released so far?

Doesn't look like I'll get an answer (not before GDC anyway), so I went over the video and did some photoshop investigation...results are not too good for proper scale :\....I hope im wrong about this. Otherwise we have another over-sized atlas that won't see much use in competitive play.

I first measure the atlas from the back up to where the rails reach. I marked it in red.


Then I looked at the Atlas from the side view. Both are marked at a hinge attached to a rod that goes down that yellow 'drop jet back' attached to the atlas's back. Basically right below the atlas's elbow and the torso gun.


Then I looked at the hunchback and measured where the top of the rails meets the hunchback. The hunchback is just barely taller.


Finally, I compared it to the concept art. Considering that the devs confirmed the atlas is 18m tall, that makes the hunchback in the video about 12.5 meters tall (center)...and thats being generous. This is really how tall the commando should be (I can only imagine how ridiculously tiny that would make the commando :\) The hunchback should be closer to 14.5 meters tall (right)

Edited by =Outlaw=, 01 March 2012 - 12:17 PM.

[Caballo]

Interesting post. It is impressive how many concepts people dragged from a 30 secs trailer

[Dihm]

Mason Grimm, on 29 February 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

That's not overly tall man. I'm 6'2 and several of the guys on my department are 6'1+

One guy is 6'5 and is a beast in bunker gear.

<6'2" hi5>

[GargoyleKDR]

<5'-8" , gets a step ladder to high five Dihm>

[GrimJim]

=Outlaw=, on 01 March 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Doesn't look like I'll get an answer (not before GDC anyway), so I went over the video and did some photoshop investigation...results are not too good for proper scale :\....I hope im wrong about this. Otherwise we have another over-sized atlas that won't see much use in competitive play.

I compared it to the concept art. Considering that the devs confirmed the atlas is 18m tall, that makes the hunchback in the video about 12.5 meters tall (center)...and thats being generous. This is really how tall the commando should be (I can only imagine how ridiculously tiny that would make the commando :\) The hunchback should be closer to 14.5 meters tall (right)

Being a trailer editor myself, I think some liberty in size was taken for dramatic effect.

I think your call on using the weapons as an index for scale is a good one (since it does seem Alex's "military style" goes for a more Eli Whitney approach re: parts). If you overlay the various designs over each other, solid comparisons can be made and the 'Mechs all start looking closer in height to each other.

(Still seems weird to think hundreds of companies all built the Medium Laser to the same specs, but hey! Lack of uniform conformity among 'Mech designs has been a long complaint of certain parties)

[Outlaw2]

GrimJim, on 01 March 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Being a trailer editor myself, I think some liberty in size was taken for dramatic effect.

Except they said everything in the trailer are actual in-game assets. They could have fiddled with the scale just for the trailer (doubtful imo). It would no longer be the actual in-game asset if they did, but who knows. We have a single over analyzed trailer to go off on : |

Edited by =Outlaw=, 01 March 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Nathiel Surefire]

=Outlaw=, on 01 March 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

*bunch of relavent text*

Keep in mind that in your source pictures camera angle does play its part. From the trailer, the shot of the atlas is slightly below center, maybe at the bottom of the AC/20 level. The shot of the hunchback is made from the cockpit of the atlas that was already lifted off the factory floor, and angles down towards the hunchback. There probably is just enough play between the distance of the mechs to the railing that it makes the hunchback measure smaller than it really is from the photo if you use that railing, so realistically it is somewhat closer to your ideal height than the result you got.

Personally I like the scale they've gone with. If they really can pull off putting enough detail into the maps to give us the sense of scale all the time, I will be a very happy man.

[Outlaw2]

Nathiel Surefire, on 01 March 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Keep in mind that in your source pictures camera angle does play its part. From the trailer, the shot of the atlas is slightly below center, maybe at the bottom of the AC/20 level. The shot of the hunchback is made from the cockpit of the atlas that was already lifted off the factory floor, and angles down towards the hunchback. There probably is just enough play between the distance of the mechs to the railing that it makes the hunchback measure smaller than it really is from the photo if you use that railing, so realistically it is somewhat closer to your ideal height than the result you got.

Personally I like the scale they've gone with. If they really can pull off putting enough detail into the maps to give us the sense of scale all the time, I will be a very happy man.

Angle is a good point, but it wouldn't make the hunchback gain 2 meters. Half a meter maybe.