145 replies to this topic

[Dexxtaa]

Let us assume that Clan technology will be playable in the future.

I know the whole clans thing is under heavy discussion. And I know most of the freebirth stravags will move to Clan Tech because of the superior technology.

However, for the purposes of balance and roleplay, I believe that the devs should focus on "balance" more than "canon" performance. I am not keen on everyone migrating to Clan tech simply because they want to roflstomp people in the servers.

My suggestion is this: Clan Technology should be balanced by focusing on what the in-game performance will yield. If the clans are to be playable, I'd rather have people more involved in the Roleplay rather than the "let us all herpity derpity into these supermechs (omni) and blast all those dudes away."

For example, yes the Clan ER PPC is superior to the IS version, but say, reduce the range of it (compared to the IS version) or increase the heat capacity of the weapon, or simply the tonnage or slots. I realize this sounds very unlike what it is based on canonicity, but there comes a time when people (such as I) would like to be playing a role that I've always wanted to play without having ridiculously overpowered weapons.

I'd rather see balance than meta. Plus, if it were to remain unbalanced, the IS mechs would see very little use.

I have thought about this in a very limited fashion, so please bear with my ideas.

Edited by Dexxtaa, 12 September 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[Grendel408]

Here's an option for balance versus your idea of limiting range (which is one of the main successes of Clantech)... how about just making the cost stupidly high compared to Inner Sphere tech. Either way... if and once it becomes available for everyone, it's not going to matter much anymore... but early on, make it expensive. Sure, you can grind away a little more, and your repair costs will be more, but that's the trade off in my opinion.

[Least Action Jackson]

It's true that the devs have a terrible burden of introducing Clan tech without breaking the game, and I agree that canon is going to have to take a backseat. I've heard some ideas being thrown around (e.g. sending stars of five Clan mechs versus paired lances (eight) of IS mechs into a match) , I am extremely curious as to how the devs are going to implement the arrival of the Clans, and I'm sure they have some pretty clever ideas.

Also, I want my Cauldron-Born.

[CommEE]

The other option is to make clan tech rare by making repairs from battle more difficult/time consuming/expensive/impossible. The Innersphere has numbers on their side (canon) and quantity has a quality all of its own.

So, go ahead and load up your Timberwolf with full clan gear - you may kill my Catapult, but the damage I do might not be fully repairable between matches.

[Peridox]

One of the problem i see here is that the devs have to make money to keep producing the game which means things are going to be on sale most likely that will be clan tech when it is released so for a least a little bit those who are willing to pay for it will be better off in matches until the rest of us farm the Cbills to buy some upgrades

[Odanan]

Least Action Jackson, on 12 September 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

It's true that the devs have a terrible burden of introducing Clan tech without breaking the game, and I agree that canon is going to have to take a backseat. I've heard some ideas being thrown around (e.g. sending stars of five Clan mechs versus paired lances (eight) of IS mechs into a match) , I am extremely curious as to how the devs are going to implement the arrival of the Clans, and I'm sure they have some pretty clever ideas.

Also, I want my Cauldron-Born.

16 x 10? Not a bad idea...

Or they can simply balance this in the matchmaking system. Something like: 1 Light Clan mech = 1 Medium IS mech.

[Damion Sparhawk]

problem I see with making clan tech cost prohibitive is this, simply put, it makes it so that those willing to pay more, or spend more time, will win. Either people will pay for c-bills so they can keep their clan tech mechs and just swallow the repair costs, or they'll build up a large amount of c-bills through grinding so they can run their clantech without remorse as well, repairs in my opinion are only going to be a deterrent to the casual player and even those, only the ones who're not going to be willing to pay in, which will lead to complaints about supposed 'pay to win' even though there isn't anything currently in the game that is unobtainable without using real money.

[CW Roy]

It'd be easiest to make the Clans and their tech unplayable, then make a set of PvE missions that allow you to use whatever you want. Save the balance and gameplay first and foremost.

[Grendel408]

Damion Sparhawk, on 12 September 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

problem I see with making clan tech cost prohibitive is this, simply put, it makes it so that those willing to pay more, or spend more time, will win. Either people will pay for c-bills so they can keep their clan tech mechs and just swallow the repair costs, or they'll build up a large amount of c-bills through grinding so they can run their clantech without remorse as well...

The Devs have clearly stated that you can't purchase C-bills... you can purchase more MCs... not C-bills, all that's gonna give you is a chance to purchase 'Mechs.

[Dexxtaa]

I agree with Sparhawk in the respect that making it simply cost-prohibitive will not save people from grinding out the needed resources to supply and arm Omnimechs. I play a different game called "Mount & Blade: Warband." There's a mod on there called cRPG and it has a very similar upkeep system to what we see here in Mechwarrior Online. That said, it's very unforgiving to the casual player since upkeep costs constantly slam people who don't put a lot of time into the mod.

The difference between cRPG and MWO is that cRPG is a free mod. The devs do not have to worry about keeping the casuals who don't like the mod, simply because they're not paid to care. MWO is different because the devs rely on the playerbase as a whole, because this is a company and business.

If they make the game based off profit alone, however, they will lose the majority of the playerbase (because not all of us are loaded with cash. Read: College). The devs have mentioned that this is not a pay2win game, either. Making items and clantech cost-prohibitive will only lead to people grinding out the required resources, then rolling around in a fully outfitted Omnimech most of the time.

Another idea would be to increase the repair time-period for clan technology, instead of an instant repair like the IS 'mechs can (because IS factories are right at home), Clan technology will take anywhere from 10-20 minutes to repair (because the pieces have to be shipped to the closest clan base along the invasion corridor, or field repairs). That would lessen the number of Clantech on the battlefield at any given time. 10-20 minutes will force premades to hang on to use their mechs, deploy in IS mechs, or risk a major repair penalty by taking their other Omnimechs out.

Coming back to making "stuff cost more," it doesn't work to keep casual player excited for the game, and I doubt it's the goal of the devs to chase away the casuals.

[Kurayami]

high prices of omni tech+ most of clan mech utilize endo steel\rare armors\nonstandart engines etc - compare repair cost of this things alone will punish herpderimaimbaclanmech players enough (since they are always taking some damage). if it is not enough - lets not forget high-tech clan weapon systems. i also hope there will also be some quantity system. ie there would be finite number of parts (both clan and is) generated every week (based on war status, location, faction affiliation etc etc - the usual stuff) and strict limit to quantity and types of parts players can store as replacements (so no paying abuse. maybe small bonus to storage for premium users and some lifetime enhancements like with mech bay's - dev's need money after all) . so after blindly roflrushing on Timber Wolf one can found itself in a situation when with no amount of c-bills or even mc's he could replace that arm or replenish armor or repair that clan LRM or even mech itself since endo steel surprisingly don't grow on trees. add to this a chance to all players to get their hands on some clan tech - ranked house players could buy some salvaged parts with combination of house points and c-bills while merc's could obtain some as contracts rewards\plante capture loot etc and some low rank clan tech would appear form time to time on free market. This way there will be much less abusing of clan tech but still majority of players could afford some minor nice things on constant basis or top notch ones once in awhile. at least i think so.

Edited by Kurayami, 12 September 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[Damion Sparhawk]

Grendel408, on 12 September 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Devs have clearly stated that you can't purchase C-bills... you can purchase more MCs... not C-bills, all that's gonna give you is a chance to purchase 'Mechs.

you may not be able to purchase c-bills, but you can purchase a MECH, and then sell said mech FOR c-bills.

[Grendel408]

Damion Sparhawk, on 12 September 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

you may not be able to purchase c-bills, but you can purchase a MECH, and then sell said mech FOR c-bills.

Damion... re-read my comment LOL! You quoted, then restated in different context what I mentioned.

[Oengus Braonain]

Im gonna have to say ridiculously expensive prices...

example: lets say a IS ER Large Laser is 200k Cbills, make the Clan version 2mil in cbills...everything the clans produce make 10x the price.

Especially at the beginning with the clan invasion. If we try to be as close to the canonized history of the game as possible, those parts are gonna be rare. The clans invade and dont really lose that often to leave salvage. So the few people who manage to salvage those parts will primarily be the only ones in the IS with them.

Maybe for a time period those parts are irreplaceable, because they dont exist in the IS, so when they get destroyed, its gone.


Also, there should be a private market for mech warriors to sell parts and stuff to each other.

[Nezerroth]

Dexxtaa, on 12 September 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

reduce the range

Wut? ExtendedRange PPC should have actual decrease of range?
In most games, clan tech compared to inner sphere tech had higher damage, range or weight for expence of heat, ammunition and, mainly, maintenance cost.
In games like MWO the balance is the only thing that matters, the lore and even common sense are secondary.

[VegetaFH1]

Canon doesnt have to take a backseat to this

Yes the Devs have a really annoying problem on their hands, but i believe everybody is forgetting something here
The Durability of Clantech is not that high... infact, if anything, its fragile

Im looking through my old MechWarrior 2 manuel here and i spot several things that distance Clan Tech from IS Tech, the one and most repeated is Durability, and cost increase and the heat

lets look at it like this, if you were to take an ER PPC, one from IS and one from the clans, now you have an IS ER PPC, it lasts the fight, it doesnt go until the mech goes, but if you take a Clan ER PPC, and it breaks half way through the fight for no reason... well its useless to you

Ye Clan tech can bust holes in pretty much anything, yee they have increased damage, yeee they weight less and yeee they might outrange their IS counter parts, big woop... if the gun breaks half way through a brawl... what good is it to you? its dead weight and it costs more to repair the damn thing, Those repairs are gonna mount up over time if u keep to clan tech all the time

Edited by VegetaFH1, 12 September 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[DivideByZer0]

I didn't see anyone mention that clan tech also generates more heat.
I always thought of IS mechs as having more autocannons and just brute force weaponry for face to face skirmishing, while the clan weaponry main advantage was increased range/damage at the cost of refire rate (due to heat).
Hopefully everything ends up balanced. Part of keeping things balanced, I think will be making sure that there is a good selection of IS mechs to use, their versatility through a library of mechs makes them strong.
Also, if costs are balanced, clan mechs will have a SIGNIFICANTLY higher price / upkeep cost. Simply put, you can run a bigger IS mech loaded with a slew of your favorite weapons, while the lighter clan mech (in the wrong hands) will have more streamlined armament , and be generating way more heat. If truetech is introduced, two different play styles should emerge in a clan vs. IS battle . IS has to be crafty, but their advantage, being able to run heavier equipment , dollar for dollar, is being able to take a few hits and still scrap through a battle. I can see a coordinated clan team really causing some mayhem though.
Me, I'm just hoping to someday pilot my Mad Dog again. A TimberWolf wouldn't be bad either .. but this all just conjecture..

∞

[HardLuck]

Balance? Why balance it at all so many IS keep bragging that there so good, so just leave the clan tech the way it is and let us see who is truely the better warriors really are. Some clan tech is just lighter, faster reload, less heat output and so on and so on. All I hear is crybabys trying to get the ball and the Dev's on their side.

[Grand Duke Joshua]

There's a way to keep the TT rules as true as posible.

Don't punish, reward!

Clan tech more costly? Instead,

How about reward the the IS?

Make clan kills by IS obscene in its reward,

Balance it so that clan Mech are just nearly ineficent to run.

Have to farm 1 match out of 7 by slumming for one of the great houses.

Just an idea,

[KiwiBigD]

Dexxtaa, on 12 September 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Another idea would be to increase the repair time-period for clan technology, instead of an instant repair like the IS 'mechs can (because IS factories are right at home), Clan technology will take anywhere from 10-20 minutes to repair (because the pieces have to be shipped to the closest clan base along the invasion corridor, or field repairs). That would lessen the number of Clantech on the battlefield at any given time. 10-20 minutes will force premades to hang on to use their mechs, deploy in IS mechs, or risk a major repair penalty by taking their other Omnimechs out.

This suggestion to date I think has the most merit. Most people want to jump in game after game after game. So why not make the repair
time longer? 30minutes? Maybe an hour? On top of that increase the cost as well. Players will be more careful and not so gun ho once they lose their favourite weapon and have to generate 3 million CB to repair it plus wait a long time for it to show up. The generating of the 3 million will be the least of their worries.

Or how about for a group game when it comes to salvage the group needs to decide how to split it out between them?

Or, if you can only play Clan if you're aligned with that specific house?