246 replies to this topic

[LackofCertainty]

Maps are a part of balancing mechs. If you make a map the size of Texas with 3 points that need to be held to increase a victory ticker, suddenly the team of assaults that cruise at 4 mph are a lot less desirable than team with a few lights that run at mach seven.

If you make a map with tight urban sprawls, then the assault whose turret rotates one inch every five minutes is a lot less desireable to the light that can Jump jet behind them and have their weapons aligned in seconds.

I'm surprised no one has called attention to a game like tribes yet. In tribe (a first person multiplayer shooter with different classes) There were heavy, medium and light units. Heavies packed the big guns for the most part, at the cost of crappy jetpacks and slower movement. I don't remember that game being a massive Heavy-fest. All the classes were pretty well represented.

Assaults are also like the Heavies from Team Fortress 2. Theoretically they do the most damage and have the most hp, but their slow speed and inaccuracy (or slow align/torso twist times) are what compensate for it. A lone assault mech should be easily flanked and then destroyed when it shows it's backside. A properly supported assault should be a metal god on the battlefield, doling out death and shrugging off countless hits to it's front armor.


Do I expect for people to cry foul about Assaults after the game launches? Yes. Noobs who know nothing about mechwarrior will start the game, charge blindly at the first atlas they see, get shredded, and then QQ about how they're OP. Then I expect the noob to make a new account, get an atlas this time instead, and then they'll charge in and get outmanuvered by a medium and QQ about that how cheap it is when someone rides your back.



I expect the game to be balanced, because the devs have done nothing to earn my distrust so far. Trust that the devs understand game balance until you see proof that says otherwise.


P.S.

Thomas Hogarth, on 06 March 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Also,
The more I think about it, the more I like the concept of heavies/assaults not generating enough CB to pay for their operations. "but i won't be able to perform my role hurr durr" There is no role that cannot be performed by any of the four weight classes.

If everything is balanced then there is no reason to artificially punish players of any one chasis. Why the hell would you make a person who enjoys playing heavy/assault farm in a light mech to afford more heavy/assault mechs? Silly.

That'd be like me saying, "This game is balanced and all chassis have a use. Also, if you play an Assault, I'm going to kick you in the balls after each game. Enjoy." You might attract some masochists that way, but generally you're just going to make people angry.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 08 March 2012 - 07:31 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Also, drop weight limits can be balancing factor. I recall a thread from a while ago, about building your ideal 600ton 'mech company.

If one side decides to roll super-heavy with their 6 Atlases, the other side might go with:

1x Commando
3x Jenners
2x Centurions
1x Hunchback
2x Dragons
3x Catapults

divide up like:


Lance 1
3x Jenner
1x Dragon

Lance 2
3x Catapult
1x Dragon

Lance 3
2x Centurion
1x Hunchback
1x Commando

So one side has a good set up for scouting/skirmishing lance, a fire support lance, and still has a fairly robust close-combat lance. The Assault column may have a lot of raw firepower and tanking ability in a pitched battle, but they'll have hell making it across the map in one piece.

[Psydotek]

On the other hand, assault 'mechs will have their place. Get your scout 'mech to lure an enemy heavy lance through an urban maze where you have an Atlas and 2 Hunchbacks hidden and waiting and the enemy lance will get torn to shreds in the crossfire.

In fact, you'll probably always need an assault 'mech or two. They may get to the fight late but if they're properly supported they will bring the necessary firepower to crack an entrenched defender or hold the last line of defense.

[Smurf O Pax]

I think the following will happen a lot in the beginning.

a bunch of Assault Mechs goes for the Enemy Base. They are on 2/3 of the way and get a "Your Base is captured". They turn around to help the single Assault defending their Base and before they arrive back at their base they will get a "Your Base has been captured. You lose" ..... or even better they Capture the base an 1 Scout Spotter + 1 Medium Fire Support (Indirect LRM) hit them continously that they aren't able to capture

Edited by Smurf-O-Pax, 09 March 2012 - 12:59 AM.

[Togg Bott]

ya know the way i see it. the mechs that will be available on launchday. you'll prolly be able to pick one of ANY of them as your starting mech "FOR FREE". any additional mechs that you may want "NEED" will have to be bought with in game C-Bills, or Real Money. since you can get it with C-bills, earned, i see no reason to not let some impatient person to spend real money to get it sooner. after all, the Devs need to make not only enought to survive on, but enough to actually wanna keep adding to the game.

but those are my opinions, and you know what they say about those.

Edited by Togg Bott, 22 March 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[Fetladral]

I like the idea of having buying and only being able to own only one mech at first your choice and as you play more you can buy new slots/bays to hold more mechs. I hate the idea of everyone going around in atlas' the first match after launch that would be boring. Personally I prefer heavies to assaults.

[Jonas]

I would like to have something to shot for, I have never been an Atlas fan. In MW2 I ran a Fire Moth ( dasher ) sometimes and even took out a few heavies with it. I like to see a full list of the Mechs that will be out on launch day ( if anyone has the complete list send me some info ).

I think I would like to be in the mid Medium to mid Heavy range in weight unless the Wolf Hound is in it then that my first choice.

[Kallende Rathwynne]

I am dying to see the opening mech list. Faction units will be stupid to go all heavy and assault with their load outs. I think the Atlas/Zeus jokes are great like any other Steiner fan, but take a look at the canon. Steiner designed mainstays across the weight listings. The Commando is a fantastic light mech and a fabulous line holder. The Centurion was a wildly popular medium mech. This is a big reason that I am in favor of tonnage limits of some sort. If the noob squad is dumb enough to gimp themselves into rolling out with three Atlases, I'll be happy to roll out in a Shadow Hawk with my more experienced squad of Commando and Centurion pilots and just casually stay out of reach of the bulk of their fire power while the Commandos circle behind them.

[Britbaldie]

I know that i'm not really a light scout mech person, I prefer a nice medium or heavy, like the assaults but those are normally long range sluggers, but we will have to wait and see, going to be interesting though

No matter which way they go, I think a good range of mechs will be available to everyone at the beginning.

[Joe Lork]

Ok all well and good on paying more for mechs outside of certain factions, but what about faction mech like the Annialator from Wolves Dragoons, they also produce the Marauder II as well?

[Joe Lork]

so wouldnt those certain mech be locked out from certain factions, and what about merc?

[Xyph3r]

osito, on 03 March 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

I dont think it will matter much if all the mechs are unlocked. if the maps and game play are right it should balance it out. Plus no mech is unbeatable. There are tactics that can be used against different mechs to offset weight and firepower. I have seen medium mechs take out a 100 toner fairly regularly with the right pilot and tactics.

i totally agree. with the right Tactics, even a single Elemental can kick an Atlas´s 100-tons-butt^^
it´s 20% mech, 80% Pilot, so let them have their "auto-win" atlas start mechs! xD

[Old Wolf]

The devs committment to and explanation of 'role warfare' seems to be completely against the notion of having to progress towards unlocking an assault mech. They are clearly stating that each mech class has its role in the battle and that those roles are not trumped by any one class. They even stated that the old notion of starting in a light mech that you kind of have to deal with and then progressing up to the ultimate assault mechs is something that they want to move past in order to highlight the capabilities of each class in the gameplay.

Granted, this is a tough notion for me to wrap my head around given all the previous Mechwarrior games I've played, but the devs intentions seem pretty clear to me. I guess I'll find out the hard way when I try to take on an Atlas in my Centurion

[cinco]

yes. i don't care about unlocks. i want to play games because i enjoy it, not because it's holding a carrot out in front of my face. good on the piranha game devs for bucking such a stupid trend

[LordDeathStrike]

[EDMW]CSN, on 03 March 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I prefer if they gave everyone C-bills as a start up. So if you got 10 mil as a start up. You can buy a huge load of Jenners and Commandos or just 1 Atlas with less than 1m left to spend on repairs and reload.

Your call.

you could buy like 3 jenners or commandos or 2 hunchbacks of centurions, or 1 catapult with some change, for the price of an atlas. 3 might be company, but it aint a load.

Xyph3r, on 24 March 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

i totally agree. with the right Tactics, even a single Elemental can kick an Atlas´s 100-tons-butt^^
it´s 20% mech, 80% Pilot, so let them have their "auto-win" atlas start mechs! xD

elemental only wins if TT rules are in play but TT rear weapons are not (by removing the atlas rear lasers the elemental can safely jump on his back and use his claw to TT rule disable the reactor)

honestly if you wanna get a squad of fleas off your back, the best method is to just fall back and squash them, then get up and continue on.

[Zhanna Kerensky]

Personally, I think all mechs should be available at the launch of MWO, albeit I would not want to pilot an Atlas at first ... and this has already been broadly discussed in a previous, different thread :

http://mwomercs.com/...ationsupgrades/

amongst other things ...

[Joe Lork]

what part in history is this game taking place who and what are the clans IS militaries have no upgrades when the clans attacked.....mmmmmm

[Howlin Wolf]

I am not sure what i want to pilot until i see the list and make a decision. One thing i do know i don't want to mindlessly grind through a bunch of mechs i have no desire to play to unlock the one i do actually want to use. I voted yes even though i may not start with an atlas. Who knows at this point. As for the starting money I say no, just let me pick the mech i want to play as the devs have said it will be at launch.

[TopDawg]

Old Wolf, on 24 March 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

The devs committment to and explanation of 'role warfare' seems to be completely against the notion of having to progress towards unlocking an assault mech. They are clearly stating that each mech class has its role in the battle and that those roles are not trumped by any one class.  They even stated that the old notion of starting in a light mech that you kind of have to deal with and then progressing up to the ultimate assault mechs is something that they want to move past in order to highlight the capabilities of each class in the gameplay.

Granted, this is a tough notion for me to wrap my head around given all the previous Mechwarrior games I've played, but the devs intentions seem pretty clear to me. I guess I'll find out the hard way when I try to take on an Atlas in my Centurion

I completely agree.  It seems fairly evident that the dev team is entirely against the 'arms race' concept of gameplay.  I'm rather excited for the tactical, team-based play, which the role warfare is a rather pivotal component of.   

All shall be clear in the coming months, and I can't wait to try the beta/game and start providing feedback.

[VarietyOfCells]

Old Wolf, on 24 March 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

The devs commitment to and explanation of 'role warfare' seems to be completely against the notion of having to progress towards unlocking an assault mech. They are clearly stating that each mech class has its role in the battle and that those roles are not trumped by any one class. They even stated that the old notion of starting in a light mech that you kind of have to deal with and then progressing up to the ultimate assault mechs is something that they want to move past in order to highlight the capabilities of each class in the gameplay.

I think this makes sense. Matches would be quite strange if everyone was in a light mech for the first few days. And plus, the people who don't want to pilot a light mech and who are no good at piloting a light mech shouldn't be forced to.