23 replies to this topic

[Mr Smiles]

So, flamers and machine guns are useless against 'Mechs. Even when the tabletop game threw in alternate rules where machine guns have a higher hit chance or flamers can raise heat, they were still useless.

BUT one day, Blake willing, we're going to see infantry patrolling the fields, capturing points that big 'Mechs can't (the role they often serve on the tabletop, actually) and being somewhere between a pain in the actuators to a major threat, depending on the terrain and how much anti-infantry weaponry the 'Mech they're attacking possesses (platoon vs. 35 ton Firestarter, Firestarter wins; platoon vs. 65 ton Catapult, platoon wins).

So, my question to the community: when the devs are creating a 'Mech with anti-infantry weapons in the game universe, should they port that over in the hopes that we'll one day get infantry? Or should they replace it with something like armor or ammo, since we might never get infantry... with the possibility of redoing those 'Mech variants to include those weapons again if infantry ever get added?

I personally think they should have the little guns, both for being closer to canon, and to apply continuous prsesure on the devs to add infantry/light vehicles. If we replace 'em with ammo or whatever, then we might never see infantry squads, which is a big loss for people who want to play "Combined Arms Commander"

Plus, adding flamers means we might one day get advanced flame effects, like setting trees ablaze and creating smoke screens or impassable scorching terrain.

[Sarah Dalrymple]

As much as I like heating up an enemy Mech as much as the next gal, I think for the time being, we should focus on Mech vs Mech weaponry. But one day, in the future, I hope to resurrect a Mech my TT group had made for large group combat.

It was 20 tons. It was fast. It had a flamer on each arm, and was meant to work in groups of no less than SIX. And it was named the Fire Ant. It was my most favorite light Mech. However, alone, it was pretty useless. LOL

[Insidious Johnson]

Yes!

[Sears]

I assume they are going to have the flamer available. It's the only weapon in the artwork section so far. But it's only use at this stage would be to overheat an enemy mech quicker.

I can imagine someone fielding a mech of some description armed with just flamers going around overheating people, that would be annoying haha.

Edited by Sears, 06 March 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[Orzorn]

I really do hope we see machine guns. I enjoyed them very much in Mechwarrior 2 and put them on many variants of mine. They could absolutely shred through enemy armor. Just to see how strong they were, I took a gargoyle and filled it with 10 of the things and as much ammo as I could manage. I destroyed every mech in the mission (somewhere around 10 mechs, I think) and still didn't run out of ammo. I even had to destroy an objective at the end and still had ammo left after that. And those weren't light mechs either. I took out Maruaders and Dire Wolves.

However, that's most likely the implementation of them. Machine Guns closer to the table top implementation would likely serve less purpose against all but the lighter mechs. So, yes, I hope they include light vehicles and infantry to take care of in some form or another. When the Clans come we'll definitely need them to take care of elementals.

[Strum Wealh]

Yes - all of the weapons should be faithfully included on the 'Mechs.

Additionally, we already know that the flamer is in:


It was revealed in the Jan. 31 announcement.

Also, several of the ISN posts have metioned non-'Mech combat vehicles as existing in-universe (see here), and a few have mentioned infantry-specific topics (such as a new laser rifle mentioned in the Jan. 29 ISN post).

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Don't under-estimate those machine guns. Those things are probably closer in comparison to our modern day .50 cal machine guns. They don't do much to a mech individually but in significant numbers, they can turn a mech into swiss cheese.

I did that once while playing MW3. Something like 10 or 12 clan MG's.... the enemy mech didn't last long... but the down side was I ran out of ammo quick. It was a fun experiment tho.

[Project_Mercy]

I counter on machine guns. I'm not saying they're the ultimate option, ton-wise, but on a light mech with jump jets, they're a lot easier to use than lasers, since heat generation is nil. For anti-scout lights, they're considerably deadlier than SLs, just because you can keep moving, and keep blasting, without much threat of cooking. And depending on tech level, you can share ammo caches with MGs, which means as the number goes up, it basically works like a poor-mans LB-X.

Flamers are definetly a considerably more niche option.

[Saren21]

I know the machine guns always had a habbit of blowing up the ammo on mechs in the table top. I used to run around with a stinger and try to blow up the ammo of enemy mechs it was more fun then effective but those players who did not use C.A.S.E would find there mech blowing up from under them and even they did use CASE it would cost them 50k in cbills and added like a few extra tons.

[Orzorn]

The Piranha says MACHINE GUNS ROCK.

[Hangfire]

Flamers:- Hangfire's user guide
1-Burn 'em up,
2-Shut 'em down,
3-Drop Arty on their heads

Hard to do but bloody hilarious when ya manage it

[ChewySmokey]

Yes. We already know flamers are in and it would be weird not having machine guns. I think it would be simple for the devs to add infantry and vehicles, even for the smallest reason like "local defense forces" idly standing around or even being ordered around my the mech commanders.

[That Guy]

i think that flamers and MGs should do no damage to mech armor, but, would be effective against internals and acting as "crit finders". tear a hole in the chest of your target and lay in with flamers and MGs

it really dont matter how many MGs there are, you just should not be able to damage MECH ARMOR.


but since MGs probably will make into the game, much like many past games, well just say the MGs are large bore (14mm +) loaded with high power AP incindiary rounds and only go fast enough to damage mech armor at under 90m. anything beyond that the rounds just dont have the KE to damage armor

[LordKelvin]

I've always liked Machine Guns as weapons of last resort. They're very simple to use, and you don't have to worry about heat; I've had numerous times where I've brought down opposing 'Mechs with Machine Guns because I didn't have enough heat to kill them with a laser or missile salvo.

Tabletop-wise, they're more useful than you'd think. The nice thing about Machine Guns is that they take up almost zero weight, so you can toss on a half-ton of ammo and 4 machine guns (which takes up 3 tons at the most), and you have as much punch as a Large Laser at close range.

[Jarith Kell]

I am a fan of MG I would rather throw that in a spare ton slot then have that space lost to air. As far as damaging a mech hell yeah. In rpg you could use a powerful enough sidearm to damage it may take some time and a sac lunch or 4 but it can be done...

[The unnamed one]

I remimber trying out the mg varient of the elemental in MW2 mercs and it just distroyed the other mechs armor.

Disclamer: I was cheating to try it out but still be able to out an assult mech if close enough .

[Wriddle]

MW3

Strider with 16 machine guns, infinite ammo turned on, and instant action progressive waves. No invincibility but I eventually got tired of killing assault mechs while they slowly tried to catch me while circling.

In great enough numbers with a good supply of ammo machine guns hurt. I've never had any practical use for flamers except for a flamer boat puma but you had to get so close it's almost useless.

[Kirk Gibbs]

Orzorn, on 06 March 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

The Piranha says MACHINE GUNS ROCK.

priceless

[LordKelvin]

I've always been curious about the Piranha, though I've never had the chance to try one out. An alpha doing more than twice the damage of an ER PPC, from a 'Mech that weighs 20 tons...

[Orzorn]

LordKelvin, on 06 March 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I've always been curious about the Piranha, though I've never had the chance to try one out. An alpha doing more than twice the damage of an ER PPC, from a 'Mech that weighs 20 tons...

Of course, the issue with a design like the Piranha is its an explosion on legs.