42 replies to this topic

[Haroldwolf]

NamVet, on 21 September 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

I have created an account today and signed up for the beta. As a Mechwarrior fan since Table Top i played all MW video games. I nearly forgot that there was a Mechwarrior 5 but it seems they have cancelled it and made it F2P? Nevermind, sounds ok.

At the same time i'm very shocked. I've heard about Mechwarrior Online on Reddit and there seem to be huge rants about this game, forum moderation and the free to play model. I dont want to discuss the details because i think most of the information is under NDA but it seems that according to sites like 4chan, reddit and some veteran forums (sim sites) this game is already doomed.

Please don't get me wrong, i love Mechwarrior IP, but the last time i have seen such an uproar, it was about Mass Effect 3, SWTOR and other failed games..

Can anyone tell me what this is about?

As a previous poster said it is still in beta so saying "the sky is falling" may be a bit premature. They did however make a huge blunder that will haunt them for the rest of the games life.

I understand this is a game and not a specific simulation of the Battletech Universe. I also understand the need to depart somewhat from the novel and source books but this move maybe too great. I speak about the Founders Packages. This has completely unbalanced the game by providing a stable of mechs including an Atlas depending on the package you bought. It is not uncommon to see 5 or more Atlas mechs in a current beta match. In the Battletech Universe, battle were fought predominately with light and medium mechs. There were some heavy class and assault mechs being relatively rare.

The question for the developers isn't how you limit Gauss or missile boats but how do you get a better mix on the battle field? How do you make it fun and challenging and be Battletech and not a big robot arcade game? The greater danger is lances of heavy and assault mechs in every match unless weight and class restrictions are imposed. Otherwise the game degenerates into WoM, just like WoT but with mechs.

[Solafide]

NamVet, on 21 September 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

hmmm... this is very contrary to what i've heard and seen (there are alot of leaked vids floating around), but i will have to wait and see for myself, when i get accepted into the beta.

Yet, another thing: a game being BETA doesn't mean that there is a general design line and development direction. BETAs serve as platform for balancing, bugfinding and maybe some tewaking based on feedback, but BETAs are not there because you will hae influence on their decision how this game is going to be and what kind of people they want to attract.

I am a former semi pro gamer for Quake 3 and a pro gamer for Unreal Torunament (2k3). I dont want to say that my skill gives me any authority but what i've learned is that games who tend to cater around casual and very low skilled players tend to include alot of RNG, time systems and LSGE (low skill game elements)

RNG - > Randomization of gameplay where you can't influence something
Time Systems -> the more time you invest, the better the chances are that you win by equip.
Low skill game elements -> enabling bad and untalented players to still recieve gratification and success.

I will have to see for myself then. I'm very curious.

Claiming you're a pro gamer, then creating a post like this before you have even played this great game does not strengthen your cause. As for the games you've listed, it's comparing apples and oranges, plus, no insult intended, die-respawn-die genre is not what many pro-gamers consider a good gauge of ability. Strategy, team work and smarts are required in MW online, not just rush-die-rush.
Best thing you could do is not make assumptions based on what others say. I and many others enjoy games that get a bad rap, mainly from people with agendas...Peace

Edited by Solafide, 21 September 2012 - 06:18 AM.

[RogueSpear]

Well, to sum up, from what I understand of the NDA it's only against the rules to say something that is in the game, rather than something that will never be considered for entry - as stated by the devs everywhere they've ever addressed the issue.
I've been playing the beta on and off for two months (Only regularly in the last two weeks due to a sh*t connection in the preceding weeks) and there is not now, nor has there ever, nor will there ever be something you can spend money on for an advantage in the game lobby. Once you're in a match, your total MC spent is irrelevant. The only thing your MC can affect in a match is what mech you're in - rather than playing for a month to buy an Atlas, you just spend some money on it. But that Atlas has nothing that every other Atlas in the game can't get. It's AC20 does the same damage, for the same heat, at the same range, at the same cooldown...etc. It's armour takes the same damage from the same weapons.
Community warfare isn't out yet, as the devs have said, which is a shame, because I AM FREAKING DYING FOR IT OVER HERE. There's been nothing said on how MC could affect the metagame of the community warfare aspects, so yeah, there's leeway for something daft happening. But PGI is a good company, big fans of the franchise, and has some very smart designers. They're going to release stuff we want to pay for - and it is not going to unbalance the game. When the ACs start laying into you, it ain't gonna matter - no gold ammo here folks.

[Blinder]

Haroldwolf, on 21 September 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

As a previous poster said it is still in beta so saying "the sky is falling" may be a bit premature. They did however make a huge blunder that will haunt them for the rest of the games life.

I understand this is a game and not a specific simulation of the Battletech Universe. I also understand the need to depart somewhat from the novel and source books but this move maybe too great. I speak about the Founders Packages. This has completely unbalanced the game by providing a stable of mechs including an Atlas depending on the package you bought. It is not uncommon to see 5 or more Atlas mechs in a current beta match. In the Battletech Universe, battle were fought predominately with light and medium mechs. There were some heavy class and assault mechs being relatively rare.

The question for the developers isn't how you limit Gauss or missile boats but how do you get a better mix on the battle field? How do you make it fun and challenging and be Battletech and not a big robot arcade game? The greater danger is lances of heavy and assault mechs in every match unless weight and class restrictions are imposed. Otherwise the game degenerates into WoM, just like WoT but with mechs.

I don't think "masses of Atlases" is a "blunder" so much as "what happens in every size-based game when played without external restrictions." MW4 was often down to if the assaults could kill the lights before being swarmed to death, because most mediums and heavies didn't have the armor, firepower, or speed required to kill either extreme in time. MW3 had some similar situations, Mercs/MW2 didn't give you much reason to stay away from the edges either. 3025 had a decent idea with the varied weight limits but that tied into their conquest system, and currently we don't know what PGI really has planned on that front but it could reign in assault-spam, as could any player-driven leagues and such (though that doesn't help with "I want to play a couple games after work" issues). Hopefully, the balance will work out so it's a bit more like TT where you wanted a mix, because even with limited tonnage, it just changes the "optimial" choices.

[Smoke Jagaur MAX]

Don't worry. How much money they've made already it's gonna be around for a bit. I'll be shocked if It's not around for atleast a year.

[Wolfclaw]

NamVet, on 21 September 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

I have created an account today and signed up for the beta. As a Mechwarrior fan since Table Top i played all MW video games. I nearly forgot that there was a Mechwarrior 5 but it seems they have cancelled it and made it F2P? Nevermind, sounds ok.

At the same time i'm very shocked. I've heard about Mechwarrior Online on Reddit and there seem to be huge rants about this game, forum moderation and the free to play model. I dont want to discuss the details because i think most of the information is under NDA but it seems that according to sites like 4chan, reddit and some veteran forums (sim sites) this game is already doomed.

Please don't get me wrong, i love Mechwarrior IP, but the last time i have seen such an uproar, it was about Mass Effect 3, SWTOR and other failed games..

Can anyone tell me what this is about?

You have to remember that all the as*-hats who are reviewing the game for you guys on reddit and 4chan are terribly wrong. The game is in Closed Beta and is NO WHERE near what the end result will be. The game is down-right (for lack of a better term) amazing as it is already and we dont even have community warfare yet.

Community Warfare will be the power house behind keeping MWO alive. That's what MW is all about, planetary domination for resources and such.

Dont forget that.

Smoke Jagaur MAX, on 21 September 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

Don't worry. How much money they've made already it's gonna be around for a bit. I'll be shocked if It's not around for atleast a year.

Make that 4 years and I'll agree.

[SilentWolff]

The rumors of MWO demise because of the F2P model are greatly exaggerated.

[Zen Hachetaki]

hesitate to add too much beyond what other posters have said - but to sum it up:

1) Closed beta = early in the process
2) There are definite element s already in game that drive diversity in mech choices and utilization, as they bring in more it will continue to reward not simply going 100 tons every time
3) each to their own - no said everyone has to like every game - the answer is try it out for yourself! Many of us have picked up games that we did not like but our friends did. It is part of life - fortunately you are not locked into anything long term/monthly... It literally costs NOTHING to try this game
4) And don't believe everything you read on the internet - Morgan Freeman is still alive after all...

[FerretGR]

NamVet, on 21 September 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

One of the arguments i've read was that PGI tries to cater more around low skilled, casual and social players -> the typical XBOX gamer with some money in their pocket.

The reason why i believe this is because this design trend became the dominant one: flashy graphics, shallow gameplay, instant gratification without being good etc.

Thats what i fear the most, because this would not be the first game.

<--- it's not a secret that I'm in the beta based on what you see here. I don't think I'm breaking the NDA to tell you that the design trend you're worrying about isn't being implemented in this game, based on my experiences. Unfortunately I can't go into detail.

That said, and this has been discussed both inside and outside the beta forums: PGI has to go after the money, and the money is in the hands of the masses, and so if we want this game that we will love, that fans of the franchise will love, to survive, PGI has to cater to the masses. Let's be real, no game can survive without the players you're describing. PGI hasn't diluted the game, so far, trying to attract them: I guess they believe, like I believe, that the gamer community at large will come without this game being diminished. But make no mistake, if this game fails, there will be no more Battletech/Mechwarrior games, so lets get the drooling masses in here!

I personally don't think the game needs to be dumbed down to attract a gang of gamers looking to spend money.

[Mr B]

Blinder, on 21 September 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

I don't think "masses of Atlases" is a "blunder" so much as "what happens in every size-based game when played without external restrictions." MW4 was often down to if the assaults could kill the lights before being swarmed to death, because most mediums and heavies didn't have the armor, firepower, or speed required to kill either extreme in time.

This reminds me of the Uziel. There wasn't much that could keep me at bay in one of these. Stock with the PPC's or better yet, with the erPPC's, and higher top-speed. But my favorite was actually to stick it with very little armor, and a pair of light gauss rifles. Oh god that was fun. You'll still see me running around circling an atlas to this day, however doing so in a jenner isn't really working out as well as the Uziel's did... I wonder why. ;- )
B!

[Graxus]

There is no need to worry we will get a good game, just not untill next year.

[Halfmoe]

So the gripe you are hearing is that they (dev's) made the game easy so you could buy stuff so they could get data, then they wiped the money and changed the economy close to what they wanted and everyone is crying cause now they have to work for stuff.

[Mark of Caine]

I am my best and worst critic. I don't bother reading into all the diatribes of others about games, movies, etc. I see and play for myself, and I decide for myself.

This is a F2P game, so whether you get into the beta or not, there's absolutely nothing keeping you from trying it out for a while and seeing for yourself if this is for you or not.

As it stands, the game is very good imho, and half the stuff PGI has stated they want to implement isn't even in the game yet. It'll only get better as they approach Launch.

[kracked49]

The main idea behind Beta testing a game is to have a group of people pick apart the game and then the developers try to fix the problems. The final game and the game that started in Beta are never the same. When I realized that I had a slim chance of getting into Beta I spent some of my hard earned money to get into the Beta testing. Yes I have found some problems and have seen some of them fixed. Now for a piece of advice, reach into your wallet and spend some of your money on a founders pack. Join all of us that are trying to make this the most sucessful online game in history.

[Randalf Yorgen]

NamVet, on 21 September 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

hmmm... this is very contrary to what i've heard and seen (there are alot of leaked vids floating around), but i will have to wait and see for myself, when i get accepted into the beta.

Yet, another thing: a game being BETA doesn't mean that there is a general design line and development direction. BETAs serve as platform for balancing, bugfinding and maybe some tewaking based on feedback, but BETAs are not there because you will hae influence on their decision how this game is going to be and what kind of people they want to attract.

I am a former semi pro gamer for Quake 3 and a pro gamer for Unreal Torunament (2k3). I dont want to say that my skill gives me any authority but what i've learned is that games who tend to cater around casual and very low skilled players tend to include alot of RNG, time systems and LSGE (low skill game elements)

RNG - > Randomization of gameplay where you can't influence something
Time Systems -> the more time you invest, the better the chances are that you win by equip.
Low skill game elements -> enabling bad and untalented players to still recieve gratification and success.

I will have to see for myself then. I'm very curious.

I'll tell you this, PGI pays very close attention to their testers and there has been some changes made because of what the testers have said. Like you I have Beta tested a few other games and know others who have tested other games and with them it was submit the ticket and maybe get a little "ticket recieved" mesage in your e-mail. PGI actually follows up, yes you get a "Message Recieved" email but they also give you a link to allow you to add more information to the already posted ticket, even reopen closed ones. Also they come back and ask you questions about what is going on, real person asking questions not just some BOT picking out random questions from a very short list. For this reason, but not just this reason, I feel PGI has set itself a step above many larger game companies (EA and the faild SWtoR) out there and I believe they are doing it right.

About the "RANTS" without viewing them it's impossible to addess them directly however a generalized responce can be made. MWO Beta has been adding some huge parts to their game over the last few weeks and this has caused many players who were in their comfort bubble to have to learn how to do things all over again. These are some important and impressive additions that they have made and are all in line to really make this game all come together before Open Beta, it is still in Closed incase anyone was wondering, but like I said they have forced a new learning curve and there are a few people who don't like it because they cannot play like recless maverics anymore so they are going to other sites on the web and spouting off about what they think is wrong with the game. Of Course they have a hate on because of the changes and are too angry to remember that the NDA applies to them even if they have quit the game all together.

I think I am dancing on a pin head myself with the NDA with what I have writen here so I will stop myself here. I'll close with this, some people have suggested that you purchase a founders pack, yes you still can, and come in and see the game for yourself. If you cannot do that for whatever reason then I ask that you simply take what you have found on other sites with a grain of salt, (Salt helps to take the bitterness out of some things making them much more pallatible, thus the origin of the saying) and wait until they take MWO into open beta when you can come in and find out for yourself what the truth is about this game. For me, more because of the changes than not, I LOVE THIS GAME and look forward to YEARS of enjoyment from it.

I hope this helped, Good Luck and Good Hunting one and all

Cheers.

[Bansheedragon75]

NamVet, on 21 September 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

I have created an account today and signed up for the beta. As a Mechwarrior fan since Table Top i played all MW video games. I nearly forgot that there was a Mechwarrior 5 but it seems they have cancelled it and made it F2P? Nevermind, sounds ok.

At the same time i'm very shocked. I've heard about Mechwarrior Online on Reddit and there seem to be huge rants about this game, forum moderation and the free to play model. I dont want to discuss the details because i think most of the information is under NDA but it seems that according to sites like 4chan, reddit and some veteran forums (sim sites) this game is already doomed.

Please don't get me wrong, i love Mechwarrior IP, but the last time i have seen such an uproar, it was about Mass Effect 3, SWTOR and other failed games..

Can anyone tell me what this is about?

The way I see it, the core problem are the beta access given with the founders pack.

Many players have blindly bought the founders pack to get into beta and nothing else.
They do so thinking it is a pre-order or pre-purchase of the game.
They then think that what they will see are a fully working game, and not a work in progress.
When they get into beta they think that what they see are what they will get, they dont understand that most of the game is not completed yet.

They think they are entitled to get what they expected and when things dont fit their expectations or major changes are made that means they cant play the game the way they have gotten used to, they get angry and make these claims about how the game will fail.


I think what it all boils down to is that far too many are expecting far too much of an unfinished game, and when things change in a way they dont like they get angry and throw a tantrum because they think they are entitled to what they had, not understanding that this is still a work in progress.

Many of those who bought the founders pack are so completely convinced that they are entitled to a fully working game from the first second that they are unwilling to listen when when they are told the game is not done yet.
Even if someone politely explain it to them they continue to rage and scream, some even threaten with refunds as if that would make a difference, thinking that they will get their way if they just scream loud enough and long enough.

My recommendation to you is to take all these doom-sayers with a grain of salt, their bark is worse than their bite.
The devs are actual very good at listening to the feedback given and many changes done are based on just that feedback.

I say try the game for yourself, and make your own judgment, dont let the doom-sayers get the better of you.

Edited by Dragonlord, 22 September 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[SuomiWarder]

Keep in mind that people unhappy about something are often very vocal and shout their words to the world while those of us who are fine with the current set up tend to repsect the NDA and keep our opinions to ourselves or the Beta forums.

[Stickbender]

Don't worry Vet, the core of this is falling right in line of Mech FPS gone past. I find it great.

I have a motto, "Play like Quake, Die like Quake". The problem is, most those people whining are half your age and have not a clue about tactics, the love of the sport, teamwork, let alone the mech legacy. They are loners, who are the first to get blasted into a million pieces because they don't think, don't work as a team! They get blasted in game, in life, by a game, by a girl. They run out, into the open with the "need to blast something", ignoring the teamwork, compromising their team, and get chewed up from range because they are stupid. They bleed a horrible loss defeat in seconds, literaly, because they have a Quake mindset. Mech is not Quake. It's tactics! I see all the time, some guy surrounded by 5 foes, and he continually shoots at one target trying to get "The Kill". That doesn't work. To win, you gotta know WWII fighter tactics vs Bomber squadrons. Learn! The key is to make things difficult for the enemy. Vs. 5, if your only shooting at one, 4 have free reign. Shoot at three, and things change. Logic?

Trust me, your gonna love it. I have been playing the beta a bit in recent days, and without disclosure I will say that I assure you, if you played Mech2 Online years ago or any that followed, you are going to adore this!

The ones whining run in blasting like Quake. That wont work with intelligent design and skilled players using their equipment correctly.

Let them whine. At least you know the ones who are enjoying, playing team, are like minded, and smart! They win! And if you friend with them, you will too! They get it. The small ones do not.

The bottom line is this. When I am in a game with people who are working together, its win win win. When I get put on a team that's loner loner loner, it's lose lose lose. That should sum it up. I believe the devs/design have done an amazing job. This one rocks, and worth every bit of attention.

Punks without brains will complain .

"So let it be punks, so let they be done."

Edited by Stickbender, 22 September 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Ghostrider45]

Got News for All of you Real Mechwarriors these people have had almost two years to put this thing together an they have Pusd reles date back three times and any of you Who think this Game is in Closed beta then you are very DUMM got a freind he's the type that Does not like to spend money on games unless there out so he got an Account with Mechwarrior online no founders pack jusy weighting for the game to come out! Mechwarrior online has sent him two chances get in to this game wright Now!!!!! as it is right now I would rather Play the old super nintindo game then this one have any of you seen the new RAVEN it's almost as big as an ATLAS!!! about the only thing that is good is how the MECHs look but theyve got bad guy in the sizeing room ????

[Stickbender]

Yeah? You ever worked at a software/development gig? A word of advice, its harder to keep a wife than it is to make a game. But each one will be the love of your life!

Got news for you, projects like this get pushed back all the time simply because some hardware company comes up with a better way to make an explosion that would save mass overhead to utilize. So, we modify the code to make things better by using this new thing. That takes some rewrite if we want to consider our product and this new hardware into the future.

YOUR HERE TO TEST, NOT PLAY!

I really detest ungrateful people. More, I detest people who have never been part of the work it takes to accomplish something like this and have no respect. Don't be one.

Edited by Stickbender, 22 September 2012 - 01:34 PM.