90 replies to this topic

[Vininator]

What we all should be asking ourselves is... Will I be able to jump off a cliff with my Atlas and crush a Jenner or Catapult like a beer can.

[EDMW CSN]

You can get hand held gun weapons. Years later. Melee should be available post launch. Nothing like pressing alt key for a quick punch and holding it down for a powerful kick.

• QKD-8X - An experimental version developed by Earthwerks Incorporated of Tikonov mounts stealth armor and is outfitted with Triple Strength Myomer. Retaining the original rear facing Medium Lasers, the cockpit has been moved down into the torso, and a turret-mounted PPC and TAG system have been installed in the head. Developed as a "Poor Man's OmniMech" during the Jihad, the QKD-8X was designed to use the boosted strength of the TSM to carry a variety of hand-held weapons, using a rear-mounted Lift Hoist to carry spare packages on its back. BV (2.0) = 1612 ^[12]

Hand-held weapon packages developed for QKD-8X are divided into heavy, twelve tons, and light, six tons, and include:

• Heavy LRM Weapon - An LRM-20 and one ton of reloads clad in a single ton armor. BV (2.0) = 236 ^[12][11]
  
• Heavy LB-X Weapon - An LB 10-X AC with a half ton of reloads protected by a half ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 174 ^[12][11]
  
• Heavy Streak Weapon - A trio of Streak SRM-4's with a single shared ton of reloads clad in two tons of armor. BV (2.0) = 248 ^[12][11]
  
• Heavy Rotary AC Weapon - A Rotary AC/5 with a ton and half of ammo protected by half a ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 310 ^[12][11]
  
• Heavy Thunderbolt Weapon - A Thunderbolt 10 clad in two tons of armor and supplied with three tons of reloads. BV (2.0) = 239 ^[12][11]
  
• Light Autocannon Weapon - A Light AC/5 with half a ton of reloads protected by half a ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 82 ^[12][11]
  
• Light Anti-Infantry Weapon - Five Machine Guns and a Vehicle Flamer supplied with half a ton of machine gun ammo and one of flamer reloads clad in one ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 64 ^[12][11]
  
• Light Laser Weapon - A single Medium Laser cooled by three Heat Sinks and covered in two tons of armor. BV (2.0) = 110 ^[12][11]

=========================================================================================

• AXM-6X - This Axman variant introduced 3074^[4] uses several experimental systems as a technology test-bed. The hatchet and standard weaponry have been removed. In their place is a pair of Thunderbolt 15 missile launchers in the torso, while each leg mounts a pair of ER Medium Lasers. This is important, as the Axman-6X uses several hand-held weapons to provide its main firepower. A Clan-spec engine coupled with a Supercharger keeps the 6X moving at high speeds. Though the Thunderbolt missiles provide some firepower, they're only supported by a ton of ammunition. BV (2.0) = 2,132^[10]

The weapons systems available to the Axman-6X include:

• Light Autocannon - Light AC/5 with 1 ton of ammunition and a half-ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 86^[11][9]
  
• Enhanced LRM - Enhanced LRM-10 and a half ton of ammunition. BV(2.0)=111^[11][9]
  
• ER Medium Laser - One ER Medium Laser, five Heat sinks, and a half-ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 78^[11][9]
  
• Heavy Flamer - Three Heavy Flamers, one ton of ammunition, and a ton of armor. BV(2.0)= 81^[11][9]
  
• Fluid Gun - Twin Fluid Guns with two tons of ammunition available protected by a half-ton of armor. The flexible nature of the Fluid Gun's ammunition allows this weapon pod to be used in non-combat situations. BV(2.0)= 28^[11][9]
  
• LRM System - This weapon pod carries three LRM-5 launchers and a half-ton of ammunition. BV(2.0)=138^[11][9]
  
• MML System - A single MML-7 with a ton of ammunition and armor. BV(2.0) = 107^[11][9]
  
• Streak SRM Launcher - A single Streak SRM-6 with a ton of ammunition, which is protected by a ton of armor.^[11][9]

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 12 March 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[Drachenwolf]

Wasnt there a Liao mech that used a samari sword? Thought i read something somwhere about that hmm.

[Solis Obscuri]

Aegis Kleais™, on 11 March 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

For a personal opinion (so don't take it as attack), I hate the ideas of handhelds guns and melee weapons. It just perpetuates human-sized robots.

I find them a bit odd as part of the overall design of a 'mech. I can understand the idea of something picked up on the battlefield, and to some degree the melee weapons, but the idea of externally carying around weapons systems instead of mounting them beneath the armor protection of a 'mech always strikes me as a weird choice.

Strum Wealh, on 11 March 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Swords (produced by the Draconis Combine in 3058 because they apparently felt that hatchets were too "crude" ) impart one unit of damage for each 10 tons of the carrying BattleMech's weight.

I thought it was 1 point PLUS 1 points per 10 tons, as a well an improved to-hit modifier.

Seabear, on 12 March 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

As to the effectiveness of swords and the like, take a look at what happened with the introduction of full plate armor on the battle fields of midieval Europe. The swords got dented , dulled or broken. The knights simply picked up a mace or an ax and started to hurt each other. A lucky hit might split the armor, but those are few and far between. The real damage was the denting of the armor and the soft tissue under it.

Plate armor deflected cuts very effectively, but the joints were still vulnerable to thrusting attacks. Hence, sword design begins to change once plate armor comes into play, moving away from the thin, broad blades with "rounded" points that were optimized for slicing through flesh to narrower blades with a thicker cross section (for stiffness) with an acutely tapered point, less specialized for cutting but much more useful for penetrating armor joints.

But, that said, all the axes, swords, spears, etc. began to take a back seat very quickly once firearms became a reliable option for battlefiled troops. Which begs the question, "Why do I want to lug around this hatchet, hoping I can close in and hack through a half-ton or more of armor, when I can burn off over a half-ton of armor at 500m with a PPC instead?" I don't see a lot of incentive for melee weapons unless you're in some kind of Solaris VII situation where you know you'll be primarily seeing close-range engagements.

[Aegis Kleais]

Solis, I get notified when you quote me, but you're still on my ignore list, so I'm not reading your posts. No point in quoting me if you're expecting a response from me. Not is it warranted to respond to this message.

[Jehan]

Implementing melee in the game is as easy as pushing the 'melee' key/mouse button. Your mech swings its arms (in a special animation) and anything next to its torso facing takes damage according to the mech's weight, plus bonuses for hand-held melee weapons & Triple Strenght Myomers.

[Strum Wealh]

Solis Obscuri, on 13 March 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

I thought it was 1 point PLUS 1 points per 10 tons, as a well an improved to-hit modifier.

So it is.
Still, it's substantially less than the damage imparted by a hatchet on the same 'Mech...

[Fachxphyre]

drivemecloseriwanttohitthemwithmysword.jpg lol no thanks.

[HighlandWolf]

melee combat sometime yeah, but rifles? .gundam??..closest thing was the phoenix hawk and that was more like a biiiig pistol
swords??? heck no..closest thing was an axe on the axeman ..and that had a laser in it i think

[SnowDragon]

I remember once during the tabletop game My Atlas kicked the head clean off a King Crab.

That's the only melee you're ever gonna get son. Take your talk of energy swords and whiney pilots away from us. No offence.

[EDMW CSN]

SnowDragon, on 14 March 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

I remember once during the tabletop game My Atlas kicked the head clean off a King Crab.

That's the only melee you're ever gonna get son. Take your talk of energy swords and whiney pilots away from us. No offence.

Ya know it will be hilarious to see an Atlas do a round house kick to take the head off another Assault

[Vininator]

[EDMW]CSN, on 14 March 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Ya know it will be hilarious to see an Atlas do a round house kick to take the head off another Assault

And have the centrifugal force rip it in half in the process xD

[SnowDragon]

I put some claws on some Null signature system'ed 'Mechs once, just ran 'em in close and tore the living heck outta whatever was standing before me. Once, I gang r aped a Vulture with four of these custom things. Nothing left after that.

An Atlas that falls right apart after an amazing BOOT TO THE HEAD.

[Sarriss]

Skillex, on 08 March 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I know that there are bipedal robots but is there any weaponry in the form of rifles/guns that the mech can hold in its hands? also will there be any melee items available?

What you are thinking of is more attune to Armored Core and Gundam, Mechwarrior has always had those things integrated, I guess with the exception of hatchetman and some of those...less then common designs. I think a lot of the core fan base is very much against the more Japanese approach of "robots with hands so they look like big metal humans" and prefer the "big metal machines where their hands ARE guns" approach. Both have merit, but dude...GUN HANDS!

[Springer Prime]

EDMW CSN, on 12 March 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

You can get hand held gun weapons. Years later. Melee should be available post launch. Nothing like pressing alt key for a quick punch and holding it down for a powerful kick.

• QKD-8X - An experimental version developed by Earthwerks Incorporated of Tikonov mounts stealth armor and is outfitted with Triple Strength Myomer. Retaining the original rear facing Medium Lasers, the cockpit has been moved down into the torso, and a turret-mounted PPC and TAG system have been installed in the head. Developed as a "Poor Man's OmniMech" during the Jihad, the QKD-8X was designed to use the boosted strength of the TSM to carry a variety of hand-held weapons, using a rear-mounted Lift Hoist to carry spare packages on its back. BV (2.0) = 1612 ^[12]

Hand-held weapon packages developed for QKD-8X are divided into heavy, twelve tons, and light, six tons, and include:

• Heavy LRM Weapon - An LRM-20 and one ton of reloads clad in a single ton armor. BV (2.0) = 236 ^[12][11]
  
• Heavy LB-X Weapon - An LB 10-X AC with a half ton of reloads protected by a half ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 174 ^[12][11]
  
• Heavy Streak Weapon - A trio of Streak SRM-4's with a single shared ton of reloads clad in two tons of armor. BV (2.0) = 248 ^[12][11]
  
• Heavy Rotary AC Weapon - A Rotary AC/5 with a ton and half of ammo protected by half a ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 310 ^[12][11]
  
• Heavy Thunderbolt Weapon - A Thunderbolt 10 clad in two tons of armor and supplied with three tons of reloads. BV (2.0) = 239 ^[12][11]
  
• Light Autocannon Weapon - A Light AC/5 with half a ton of reloads protected by half a ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 82 ^[12][11]
  
• Light Anti-Infantry Weapon - Five Machine Guns and a Vehicle Flamer supplied with half a ton of machine gun ammo and one of flamer reloads clad in one ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 64 ^[12][11]
  
• Light Laser Weapon - A single Medium Laser cooled by three Heat Sinks and covered in two tons of armor. BV (2.0) = 110 ^[12][11]

=========================================================================================

• AXM-6X - This Axman variant introduced 3074^[4] uses several experimental systems as a technology test-bed. The hatchet and standard weaponry have been removed. In their place is a pair of Thunderbolt 15 missile launchers in the torso, while each leg mounts a pair of ER Medium Lasers. This is important, as the Axman-6X uses several hand-held weapons to provide its main firepower. A Clan-spec engine coupled with a Supercharger keeps the 6X moving at high speeds. Though the Thunderbolt missiles provide some firepower, they're only supported by a ton of ammunition. BV (2.0) = 2,132^[10]

The weapons systems available to the Axman-6X include:

• Light Autocannon - Light AC/5 with 1 ton of ammunition and a half-ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 86^[11][9]
  
• Enhanced LRM - Enhanced LRM-10 and a half ton of ammunition. BV(2.0)=111^[11][9]
  
• ER Medium Laser - One ER Medium Laser, five Heat sinks, and a half-ton of armor. BV (2.0) = 78^[11][9]
  
• Heavy Flamer - Three Heavy Flamers, one ton of ammunition, and a ton of armor. BV(2.0)= 81^[11][9]
  
• Fluid Gun - Twin Fluid Guns with two tons of ammunition available protected by a half-ton of armor. The flexible nature of the Fluid Gun's ammunition allows this weapon pod to be used in non-combat situations. BV(2.0)= 28^[11][9]
  
• LRM System - This weapon pod carries three LRM-5 launchers and a half-ton of ammunition. BV(2.0)=138^[11][9]
  
• MML System - A single MML-7 with a ton of ammunition and armor. BV(2.0) = 107^[11][9]
  
• Streak SRM Launcher - A single Streak SRM-6 with a ton of ammunition, which is protected by a ton of armor.^[11][9]

What is the point of an Axeman without an AXE???? It ceases to be an Axeman at that point and becomes another chasis in my book. *sighs*

[Akaryu]

i hope eventually they include melee combat hate seeing all these big iron fists and they are essentially as usefull as a fifth leg on a cow maybe they can give a few light mechs the option to have talons on there feet

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Springer Prime, on 08 March 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Unfortunetly, no Battletech/Mechwarrior Game has been able /willing to incorperate melee combat in its system the way the table Top games do.  Thats why you probibly wont ever see an Axman mech.

MegaMek!!1 -.-

[Hikaru]

If there is impact damage/DFA/knockback/knockdowns, there is no reason why melee damage shouldn't be included in MWO. Mechs with hands would already have them modeled. The mechanics already exist. All that would need to be added is a button for melee attack, and the animations.

[UnLimiTeD]

As far as I see it, the reason we haven't yet seen any melee weapons in mechwarrior games is that it just looks ugly.
Mechs themselves are not realistic, sure, but it's not that far of a stretch one can't arrange with that for the sake of story and gameplay.
Melee, however, would put a serious strain on the players suspension of disbelief.
So that mech that can barely run 70kph and needs to devote several tons of internal space to gyroscopes to not topple over is apparently able to graciously swing a bladed weapon, with greater speeds than it's legs are able to move, which magically does more damage to armor than a blunt weapon or just outright ramming the target at a greater speed, while not breaking itself.
Yeah, right.
The problem is that no one to iterate on the original TT ever thought about the visual implications of melee combat; it needs to look good consistently, and always the same.

If they Implement melee, they should limit it to those moves they can reasonably animate;
Fist Punch
Grab (if proper "fingers")
Integrated weapons (A Hatchet might be possible, if unlikely), but a mech lance would work; It's essentially a punch animation.
Given that every mech could do it, either with a "hand" or once it's weapons are destroyed anyways, it'd be a good backup weapon for close combat brawling, but never a means for itself.

In the era this game plays in, weapons ought to be sufficient anyways; Jihad might be another matter.

[Hikaru]

Sarriss, on 15 March 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

What you are thinking of is more attune to Armored Core and Gundam, Mechwarrior has always had those things integrated, I guess with the exception of hatchetman and some of those...less then common designs. I think a lot of the core fan base is very much against the more Japanese approach of "robots with hands so they look like big metal humans" and prefer the "big metal machines where their hands ARE guns" approach. Both have merit, but dude...GUN HANDS!

Um, what are you talking about? The core fan base of people like myself who used to play tabletop are not against the Japanese approach of robots with hands. The creator of Battletech was not against this "Japanese" approach. It's directly what inspired Battletech. And, many of the original Battlemechs were in fact licensed "Japanese approach" robots. Stinger? Robot with hands and gun. Phoenix Hawk? Robot with hands and gun. Griffin? Robot with hands and gun. Wolverine? Robot with hands and gun. Stinger LAM? Wasp LAM? Phoenix Hawk LAM? Robots with hands and guns that *transformed*. This doesn't even touch the huge list of anthropomorphic mechs that had mounted gunlike weapons, or just shot pew pew lasers from their fists from non-visible laser ports. Stop this anti-"Japanese approach" hogwash.