Hey Rogue. Missed #34, and no it wont require tt rules sets. I am basically gettign a bit set here so we know what we have to work with, what we can fit on the mechs, how fast you can move, and how fast you can shed heat so that when you are writing the posts you can add that crucial grit of you are wide open on the throttles and it is eating cooling like a son of a ^#*($ while you are trying to get a lock on the enemy, and hoping you aren't going to shut down when you pull the trigger... presuming you drive a hot mech...
I can help you out with a few of the basics and such, but you should be able to adjust the Skunkworks to the right settigs and just cut the weights out... or toss them in as cargos and then transfer the numbers to the form above. Then when we are turnina nd burnin in game, I can determine what things I can drop on you without obliterating you.
6
The Devil's Horsemen OoC
Started by Shadtiger77, Sep 24 2012 01:51 AM
433 replies to this topic
#42
Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:48 AM
Trying to find a decent 3025 tech VTOL... There's some neato ones, but now after looking them up on Sarna I'm now torn between a Combat and non-Combat role... Decisions, decisions....
#44
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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:41 PM
I would like to join this RP. But there is something i have to apologize for. Thom, Sparks, and Rogue may remember me from the Honor Among Thieves thread, or you may not. I know we had an argument there, about even though I had never done an RP before, I was acting like i knew how to do it as if i had been RPing for years. I wasn't listening to the advice you were attempting to give me. At the time, honestly it seemed like you guys just made the same complaint repeatedly. Though now i realize that I was just too caught up with my own character. While I still think my character was not quite as overpowered as you guys were saying, I do acknowledge that you were right, not I. If you will accept my apoligies, I will attempt to do this right this time, and not act like the spoiled brat I did last time. If you guys say no, I will respectfully leave this thread, and leave you guys alone. But I am hoping you will extend me a second chance.
If you guys will let me try again, I have already made a character that is designed to be balanced, not awesome like my previous one. He is also designed specifically for THIS RP.
Name: Janus Exodus (last name will be explained in the bio, because Exodus is a weird last name)
Callsign: Vanguard
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 190
Age: 22
Features: Brunette, Caucasian, Gray eyes, Heavily tanned skin, Clothes generally suit the planet he is on. for Galatea III it is a desert camo cloak (cloaks are awesome)
Vehicle: Modified Demolisher MK I (ICE traded for equivalent Fusion engine, scavenged off a Devastator Heavy Tank variant of the Demolisher, Extra weight traded for Jerry-rigged Controls to allow a single pilot to do all the jobs on the demolisher that weighs 4 tons. Remaining 4 tons are devoted to extra ammunition. 2 tons of which are specialty, non-anti mech rounds. 4 street sweeper rounds (round disintegrates upon firing, releasing a cone of ball bearings, anti infantry weapon. Jerry-rigged rounds.) 2 "inferno" rounds (round filled with flammable liquid that breaks and ignites at 50 meters, anti-infantry/ anti structure weapon. can blind IR scanners if shot well, but i might as well just use an ac/20 round in that case) 4 paint rounds ( impact exploding shells that spray paint everywhere, because they are awesome.) 30 normal AC/20 rounds total, 10 specialty rounds, 40 rounds in total.) also has a hitch attached to the back which may be hooked up to a trailer
Companion: Ser Pounce-a-Lot. a small cat that is frequently riding on Janus's shoulder. Wears a helmet with what looks like a laser pistol's firing chamber+barrel+powerpack attached. Extremely intelligent due to 400 years of selective breeding. Is capable of remembering complex directions, but distrusts strangers to an immense degree. Note: can not manipulate things very well it is a cat, But if i tell it to deliver 3 messages to 3 different places in a city it could find all 3 deliver the messages and find it's way back. I will be fully willing to dumb it down quite a bit. Only combat it will participate in would be against rodents of an unusual side. can't operate machinery or anything like that. just a REALLY smart cat. If you guys foresee an issue with this, Just recommend a course of action up to and including getting rid of this section completely.
Bio: Janus grew up on the Dropship Exodus, an overlord class vessel attached to the Behemoth class Junker vessel the Ascendant. The exodus and it's 8 sister dropships (1 Mammoth class, 2 excaliburs, and 2 unions 3 leopards) wander the Inner Sphere looking for salvage from long lost battles. They have an extensive library, and regularly travel to backwaters searching for items of value. Janus's Demolisher and the Devastator Heavy Tank it's engine is from come from such salvage missions. The Inner sphere usually leaves them alone due to the fact that occasionally they have found Star League Caches, which they sell to the House they found it in. (no Janus does not have access to Lostech) This means they are effectively untaxed by the successor states. But since they live in for the most part extreme Isolation, some unusual customs have popped up to discourage conflict among the members. Janus has lived with them since he was born 22 years ago. At the age of 21, every member of the junkers must embark on an expedition to teach themselves about the universe, to both understand themselves, and the people they will meet better. This continues until either 10 years has passed, or the Pilgrim returns to the fleet with something of sufficient value to return to the fleet. While Janus started his ordeal rather late, he has landed upon Galatea with enough money to survive for a single month, plus some Junker contacts who will get him started in this foreign land. One of these contacts pointed him to G.A.D. 3 ( i really don't feel like spelling his name out every time...) as a point to get started. (also other than those initial couple contacts, he has no ability to draw on junker resources.)
Personality traits: He is easily distracted by cats, despite the fact that Ser Pounce-a-lot gets jealous. Junker customs and speech patterns renders communication weird, though ser pounce-a-lot helps there. He can be naive to a fault at times, But steadies up once he gets in his tank, for he trusts it to protect him, as all junkers believe that the machines protect them.
(I can add some basic skills such as a mechanic, medic, or half a dozen other functions that would be known on a old ship like where my character came from if needed)
A non-animated version of this guy minus scar and sword but with brown hair is how i imagined my character looking.
Extra Skills: The Junkers are notoriously self sufficient. Janus is capable of producing a variety of simpler parts and ammunition given time, materials, and a place to work. but does not do well with extremely intricate devices, as that was not his specialization. He, like all junkers, is fairly good at appraising salvage. This is due to the fact the junkers sold salvage as their primary source of income.
(I can take the salvage appraisal off if you wish. It just makes sense to me.)
If you read this far, thanks for giving me your time.
If you guys will let me try again, I have already made a character that is designed to be balanced, not awesome like my previous one. He is also designed specifically for THIS RP.
Name: Janus Exodus (last name will be explained in the bio, because Exodus is a weird last name)
Callsign: Vanguard
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 190
Age: 22
Features: Brunette, Caucasian, Gray eyes, Heavily tanned skin, Clothes generally suit the planet he is on. for Galatea III it is a desert camo cloak (cloaks are awesome)
Vehicle: Modified Demolisher MK I (ICE traded for equivalent Fusion engine, scavenged off a Devastator Heavy Tank variant of the Demolisher, Extra weight traded for Jerry-rigged Controls to allow a single pilot to do all the jobs on the demolisher that weighs 4 tons. Remaining 4 tons are devoted to extra ammunition. 2 tons of which are specialty, non-anti mech rounds. 4 street sweeper rounds (round disintegrates upon firing, releasing a cone of ball bearings, anti infantry weapon. Jerry-rigged rounds.) 2 "inferno" rounds (round filled with flammable liquid that breaks and ignites at 50 meters, anti-infantry/ anti structure weapon. can blind IR scanners if shot well, but i might as well just use an ac/20 round in that case) 4 paint rounds ( impact exploding shells that spray paint everywhere, because they are awesome.) 30 normal AC/20 rounds total, 10 specialty rounds, 40 rounds in total.) also has a hitch attached to the back which may be hooked up to a trailer
Companion: Ser Pounce-a-Lot. a small cat that is frequently riding on Janus's shoulder. Wears a helmet with what looks like a laser pistol's firing chamber+barrel+powerpack attached. Extremely intelligent due to 400 years of selective breeding. Is capable of remembering complex directions, but distrusts strangers to an immense degree. Note: can not manipulate things very well it is a cat, But if i tell it to deliver 3 messages to 3 different places in a city it could find all 3 deliver the messages and find it's way back. I will be fully willing to dumb it down quite a bit. Only combat it will participate in would be against rodents of an unusual side. can't operate machinery or anything like that. just a REALLY smart cat. If you guys foresee an issue with this, Just recommend a course of action up to and including getting rid of this section completely.
Bio: Janus grew up on the Dropship Exodus, an overlord class vessel attached to the Behemoth class Junker vessel the Ascendant. The exodus and it's 8 sister dropships (1 Mammoth class, 2 excaliburs, and 2 unions 3 leopards) wander the Inner Sphere looking for salvage from long lost battles. They have an extensive library, and regularly travel to backwaters searching for items of value. Janus's Demolisher and the Devastator Heavy Tank it's engine is from come from such salvage missions. The Inner sphere usually leaves them alone due to the fact that occasionally they have found Star League Caches, which they sell to the House they found it in. (no Janus does not have access to Lostech) This means they are effectively untaxed by the successor states. But since they live in for the most part extreme Isolation, some unusual customs have popped up to discourage conflict among the members. Janus has lived with them since he was born 22 years ago. At the age of 21, every member of the junkers must embark on an expedition to teach themselves about the universe, to both understand themselves, and the people they will meet better. This continues until either 10 years has passed, or the Pilgrim returns to the fleet with something of sufficient value to return to the fleet. While Janus started his ordeal rather late, he has landed upon Galatea with enough money to survive for a single month, plus some Junker contacts who will get him started in this foreign land. One of these contacts pointed him to G.A.D. 3 ( i really don't feel like spelling his name out every time...) as a point to get started. (also other than those initial couple contacts, he has no ability to draw on junker resources.)
Personality traits: He is easily distracted by cats, despite the fact that Ser Pounce-a-lot gets jealous. Junker customs and speech patterns renders communication weird, though ser pounce-a-lot helps there. He can be naive to a fault at times, But steadies up once he gets in his tank, for he trusts it to protect him, as all junkers believe that the machines protect them.
(I can add some basic skills such as a mechanic, medic, or half a dozen other functions that would be known on a old ship like where my character came from if needed)
A non-animated version of this guy minus scar and sword but with brown hair is how i imagined my character looking.
Extra Skills: The Junkers are notoriously self sufficient. Janus is capable of producing a variety of simpler parts and ammunition given time, materials, and a place to work. but does not do well with extremely intricate devices, as that was not his specialization. He, like all junkers, is fairly good at appraising salvage. This is due to the fact the junkers sold salvage as their primary source of income.
(I can take the salvage appraisal off if you wish. It just makes sense to me.)
If you read this far, thanks for giving me your time.
Edited by dal10, 04 October 2012 - 06:30 AM.
#45
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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:11 PM
First off, thanks for the apology Dal10, we didn't mean to get quite as hard on you as we did, but after nearly 20 years of putting up with my sister, arguing with a brick wall gets my back up 
Overall, I think the new character is quite good and could be a lot of fun to RP with. The only problem is a couple of minor rules issues, the first being that AC20 ammo comes in 5 shot/tonne loads, so if you only have 4 tonnes of ammo then you only have 20 shots total. Second would be that specialty ammunition for ACs doesn't come out until the clan invasion era (For some stupid reason. Yes I know the writers didn't think of it first, but it's easy enough to say 'This has been around since forever, but HEAP rounds are more common') so depending on Dante's preferences, you may have to lose those. As for the jury rigged controls, are there rules for that? I mean, with autoloaders you can get the guns loading themselves, with the right targetting gear the weapons can be controlled as well, and driving is driving, but you still end up with a vehicle designed to be crewed by 6 men being crewed by one. If it was a custom homemade job like our LAMs, I'd personally be perfectly fine with it, but as a conversion it just doesn't seem right to me.
Also kind of confused by the cat and it's pistol - if it's not fighting, it doesn't need the pistol, and if it is fighting, you have a pet trained to use a laser in combat, which seems unlikely. 700 years of selective breeding on a salvage ship seems strange too. Also, how does the cat help him with miscommunications?
I do really like the salvage background and the pilgrimage deal, sounds like it's evolved to keep the ships from being completely swamped by overpopulation, and also to combat the isolationism and produce more well rounded 'mature' crew who can talk to anyone and not just their crewmates. Really interested to see how that all works
Overall, I think the new character is quite good and could be a lot of fun to RP with. The only problem is a couple of minor rules issues, the first being that AC20 ammo comes in 5 shot/tonne loads, so if you only have 4 tonnes of ammo then you only have 20 shots total. Second would be that specialty ammunition for ACs doesn't come out until the clan invasion era (For some stupid reason. Yes I know the writers didn't think of it first, but it's easy enough to say 'This has been around since forever, but HEAP rounds are more common') so depending on Dante's preferences, you may have to lose those. As for the jury rigged controls, are there rules for that? I mean, with autoloaders you can get the guns loading themselves, with the right targetting gear the weapons can be controlled as well, and driving is driving, but you still end up with a vehicle designed to be crewed by 6 men being crewed by one. If it was a custom homemade job like our LAMs, I'd personally be perfectly fine with it, but as a conversion it just doesn't seem right to me.
Also kind of confused by the cat and it's pistol - if it's not fighting, it doesn't need the pistol, and if it is fighting, you have a pet trained to use a laser in combat, which seems unlikely. 700 years of selective breeding on a salvage ship seems strange too. Also, how does the cat help him with miscommunications?
I do really like the salvage background and the pilgrimage deal, sounds like it's evolved to keep the ships from being completely swamped by overpopulation, and also to combat the isolationism and produce more well rounded 'mature' crew who can talk to anyone and not just their crewmates. Really interested to see how that all works
#46
Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:40 PM
Apology accepted Dal, there were no hard feelings, but I will admit I breathed a sigh of relief when you left... But that being said, I'm glad you're still interested in RPing... I know us RPers sure can act/be a bunch of grumbling p!ssy f**ks.
Looking over your character the things I see that make me go
and throws up a bunch of red flags have already been mentioned by Mr. Spear. Like he said, you could just 'rigg' the tank to have auto loaders for everything... as for speciaty ammo *facepalm @ developers* You could always use caseless ammo for the monster cannon, that's if caseless is allowed/still canon. That'd free up tonnage for either more ammo or something else.
Oh @ Rogue, the laser pistol thing from what I understood is the decal on a little helmet that the cat wears... nice.
Oh and excellent choice of house, Dal.
(Take that Rogue! )
Looking over your character the things I see that make me go
and throws up a bunch of red flags have already been mentioned by Mr. Spear. Like he said, you could just 'rigg' the tank to have auto loaders for everything... as for speciaty ammo *facepalm @ developers* You could always use caseless ammo for the monster cannon, that's if caseless is allowed/still canon. That'd free up tonnage for either more ammo or something else.Oh @ Rogue, the laser pistol thing from what I understood is the decal on a little helmet that the cat wears... nice.
Oh and excellent choice of house, Dal.
(Take that Rogue! )
Edited by Thom Frankfurt, 30 September 2012 - 10:42 PM.
#47
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:58 AM
Hey I've got nothing against House Liao. Mandrissa Cho has always been most accommodating with supplying me with Lao Hus anytime I've raided her territory.
#49
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:08 AM
Hey, I love that mech!
Question though, what's a Thunder?
Question though, what's a Thunder?
#51
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:29 AM
Thom Frankfurt, on 01 October 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:
Or is it a Thunderer... TRO3055 it's the basis for the Lao Hu if memory serves...
according to Sarna and the TRO 3055 it's the Thunder, you were right the first time
#52
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:22 AM
Yeah, the modifications to the Demolisher are why I said it was not approved yet. Dante said he would hand down a decision later. you could theoretically make all those kinds of Ammo easily, as they are extremely simple types of ammo. Just as an example, the Street Sweeper rounds would just be a bunch of ball bearings packed on top of a propellant, with a shell around them that breaks as it goes down the barrel. then it would have a little charge in the middle that blows the ball bearings out it a cone. that kind of ammo was in use in WWI. though not quite as complicated. But its big issue is that it is completely custom. If i ever needed to replace it, I would have to go to some ammo shop, and have them specifically make it from blueprints. and for the laser pistol thing is not actually a decal. it is a flashlight that ser-pounce-a-lot can turn on that looks like part of a laser pistol. cause who wouldn't freak if they saw a cat point a laser pistol at them. I just wanted to make this character as unusual as possible, but still believable.
also, thanks for giving me a second chance.
Edit:
Basics
Mass: 80 tons
IS: 8 tons
Engine: 17.5 tons - 240 Fusion (3/5)
Controls: 1 ton of linkages, 3 ton Battlemech Cockpit
Armor: 11.5 tons (184 pts over 5 locations [front/sides/back/turret])
Turret: 3 tons
2 Turreted AC/20 - 28 tons (14 heat on 10 heat sinks)
6 tons standard ammunition
2 tons custom fitted ammunition as requested (approved)
Reftitted ammunition costs 2x as much as you have to buy the materials, the shell and then fabricate the gear.
Well I guess he is allowing It. Thank you Dante.
I made it on Solaris Armor Werks - Special ammo is not denoted here. Yet again, thanks Dante for letting me use this.
Demolisher MK 1.5 - Junker Special
Mass: 80 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D
Production Year: 3022 - Construction year of this particular unit
Cost: 4,121,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,134
Power Plant: GM 240 Fusion Engine
Cruise Speed: 32.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Armor: Standard Armor
Armament:
2 Autocannon/20s
1 Unknown Hitch
Manufacturer: Junker Fleet
Primary Factory: Junker Mammoth class Foundry: Dynamo
Communications System: : Omicron 5000
Targeting and Tracking System: Omicron VI
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 40 points 8.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 240 17.50
Cruise MP: 3
Flank MP: 5
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Control Equipment: 4.00 - 3 Ton Mech Cockpit - 1 ton linkages
Lift Equipment: 0.00
Turret: 3.00
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 184 11.50
Armor
Factor
Front 49
Left/Right 37/37
Turret 39
Rear 22
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Spaces Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitch RR - 1 0.00
2 Autocannon/20s T 14 2 28.00
@AC/20 (40) BD - 0 8.00
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 6 Points: 11
3 0 0 0 0 4 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: AC 4/4/0
also, thanks for giving me a second chance.
Edit:
Basics
Mass: 80 tons
IS: 8 tons
Engine: 17.5 tons - 240 Fusion (3/5)
Controls: 1 ton of linkages, 3 ton Battlemech Cockpit
Armor: 11.5 tons (184 pts over 5 locations [front/sides/back/turret])
Turret: 3 tons
2 Turreted AC/20 - 28 tons (14 heat on 10 heat sinks)
6 tons standard ammunition
2 tons custom fitted ammunition as requested (approved)
Reftitted ammunition costs 2x as much as you have to buy the materials, the shell and then fabricate the gear.
Well I guess he is allowing It. Thank you Dante.
I made it on Solaris Armor Werks - Special ammo is not denoted here. Yet again, thanks Dante for letting me use this.
Demolisher MK 1.5 - Junker Special
Mass: 80 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D
Production Year: 3022 - Construction year of this particular unit
Cost: 4,121,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,134
Power Plant: GM 240 Fusion Engine
Cruise Speed: 32.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Armor: Standard Armor
Armament:
2 Autocannon/20s
1 Unknown Hitch
Manufacturer: Junker Fleet
Primary Factory: Junker Mammoth class Foundry: Dynamo
Communications System: : Omicron 5000
Targeting and Tracking System: Omicron VI
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 40 points 8.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 240 17.50
Cruise MP: 3
Flank MP: 5
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Control Equipment: 4.00 - 3 Ton Mech Cockpit - 1 ton linkages
Lift Equipment: 0.00
Turret: 3.00
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 184 11.50
Armor
Factor
Front 49
Left/Right 37/37
Turret 39
Rear 22
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Spaces Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitch RR - 1 0.00
2 Autocannon/20s T 14 2 28.00
@AC/20 (40) BD - 0 8.00
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 6 Points: 11
3 0 0 0 0 4 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: AC 4/4/0
Edited by dal10, 03 October 2012 - 07:13 PM.
#53
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:10 AM
You use SAW? I couldn't find the download for that. Mind passing me the DL link?
Also, looks good. Quick question, how does the cat use the flashlight?
Also, looks good. Quick question, how does the cat use the flashlight?
#54
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:17 AM
It came with the Skunkwerks package. At least that is how i got it.
there is a button on his shoulder. he just presses it against a wall. or i can press it for him. like i said, REALLY smart cat. The Junkers bred them for years to get rid of pests that would sneak aboard the ships. All of the ones that are currently on the ship are the descendants of the cats that survived the various pests that got on board. So the smartest ones, and given 700 years, you could breed some EXTREMELY smart cats. hell look at all the breeds of things we have made in 100 years of selective breeding.
there is a button on his shoulder. he just presses it against a wall. or i can press it for him. like i said, REALLY smart cat. The Junkers bred them for years to get rid of pests that would sneak aboard the ships. All of the ones that are currently on the ship are the descendants of the cats that survived the various pests that got on board. So the smartest ones, and given 700 years, you could breed some EXTREMELY smart cats. hell look at all the breeds of things we have made in 100 years of selective breeding.
#55
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:19 AM
700 years does seem a bit extreme, but I choose to leave that alone
Where in SSW is SAW?
Where in SSW is SAW?
#56
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:30 AM
I don't know we do have a lot of smart tech nowadays, that has been tested on people and rats to pick up thought waves for missing limbs and such. Maybe it picks up the cats' "I can't see" (which is weird for a cat) vibe a turns on that way, or by some twitch of the tail or such.
#57
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:30 AM
My idea is that they had been around as long as any house, They just chose not to settle on a planet. Instead staying in space, collecting junk, and selling it to survive. They may not always have had the current ships they use, but bought or salvaged them later. Occasionally a pilgrim brings a new person aboard, Sometimes some long time junker may decide to leave permanently. Keeps the population genetically diverse enough to survive.
I downloaded SSW_0.6.81 from the site which came as a zip file, I then extracted it to a folder i has set up for it. It came with 4 executable Jar files. Solaris Skunkwerks (SSW), Solaris Armor Werks (SAW), Solaris Game tracker (SGT, never used it), and Quickstrike Card Printer (SQT, also never used.). So yeah, that is how i got it.
edit: FWL was the first group to break away from the Hegemony at 754 years ago from 3025.
I downloaded SSW_0.6.81 from the site which came as a zip file, I then extracted it to a folder i has set up for it. It came with 4 executable Jar files. Solaris Skunkwerks (SSW), Solaris Armor Werks (SAW), Solaris Game tracker (SGT, never used it), and Quickstrike Card Printer (SQT, also never used.). So yeah, that is how i got it.
edit: FWL was the first group to break away from the Hegemony at 754 years ago from 3025.
Edited by dal10, 01 October 2012 - 09:10 AM.
#58
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:39 AM
Awesome, thanks!
#60
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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:14 PM
Thom Frankfurt, on 01 October 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:
Street Sweeper round = 1800's Cannister round for cannon...
pretty much, just designed for use in an AC/20.
I would also note, i only have 4 rounds, so it is a weapon I will only use when i absolutely need it. so like if i am about to be swarmed by infantry. that would rate a round of it. It will really only work on soft targets. such as infantry, or lightly armored vehicles - think humvees. their armor is enough to deflect light weapons fire, but really can't take much more than that.
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