63 replies to this topic

[Stripes]

Strange thing, but if you trow "MechWarrior" out of opening post, you can read it as article on World of Tanks

So far developers team shown us what they perfectly know what they doing. And adding to that, we have very atupical weapons management - for multiplayer game at least.
Unlike WoT and similar games (including Tribes), there is NO light 'Mech, available at start of game, capable match Heavy in terms of firepower. And all others arguments just useless discussion "whos father stronger".
But, on the other hand, lesser then in a year we will get Adder Prime...

[Sinitron]

xSNAKEx, on 09 March 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

But I think you missed my point also, and that is what usually happens when the devs try to avoid a logical "I WIN" button , is at the end of it all you end up making the expected dominating or heavy firepower class twice as hard to use because to begin with everyone started using them, including noobs, people got annoyed and they were "balanced".

I'm pretty sure they want to make it as fair and even as possible. Look at it this way; the Hunchback, Centurion, and Dragon are all kind of similar. Why pilot the 50-tonners when you have the 60-ton Dragon? That's 10 more tons worth of armor and firepower at a negligible loss in speed, if that.

The developers have thought about this most likely, and a combination of factors will help even things out in the end, I am sure. As long as every 'mech excels at some area other 'mechs do not, it should be fine. Again, like I said, there will be imbalances during beta and early launch, but as long as the developers are committed to ironing them out everything will be fine. After seeing the gameplay videos, I am fairly convinced they can do it right.

[Cyote13]

and remember, if they cant get anyone to pilot a specific mech they can put them on sale

[Carebear]

Heavies are backbone of the army, but lights should be useful too. If them maps are huge I can already see how useful some light mechs are, slow heavies arent some ballet dancers.

Edited by Carebear, 09 March 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[Felbombling]

I think we're safe. I can see only one scenario where this game gets beat upon with the nerf bat...

The Dev team chucks out all the Houses as a concept and then goes Alliance vs. Horde. THEN you'll see 20 ton Mechs able to carry four AC/20s flying the Alliance banner proudly.

Oh, wait... the Clans will be here in a year, so maybe the nerf bat will come out!

Edited by StaggerCheck, 09 March 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[Petroff Northrup]

Why would you try to fight a heavy battlemech, what are usually the hard hitting frontline units, with a light mech, a unit usually used for nothing heavier than recon en force one on one in the first place?

[Jehan]

From my point of view, It's a matter of size.... of WEAPONS.

An ER-PPC is a ER-PPC, no matter if it's mounted on a light mech or in an assault mech. And if the hardcore fans truly want this game to stay as closest to canon as possible, they should remember that an ER-PPC shot right in the cockpit shreds all the armor, wrecks the head's internal structure, kills the pilot and instantly disables even the heaviest mechs.

Light mechs are adept at scouting because of their lightweight construction which gives them speed and maneuverability, but suffer from the lack of heavy armor and limited weapon payload. That said, if a light mech somehow manages to mount a big gun, that gun becomes an extremely mobile threat, which cannot simply be ignored because you are 'bigger'.

If a pilot is so skilled (or lucky) to place a PPC shot in the cockpit of a moving enemy target while being itself under fire and dodging missiles, it should be rewarded for doing so. I don't get why assault mechs should get that 'free ticket' against light mechs. You shouldn't understimate any opponent in any circumstances. Even the weakest small laser is able to trigger an ammo explosion or disabling your gyro.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I don't think there is any danger of them making all mechs the same in combat power, but making them all useful in a team environment. Scouts can light people up, medium can flank, and heavies and assaults are the hammer and anvil. Everyone has a role to play.

[Victor Morson]

Just chiming in to say this is entirely inaccurate. Heavies/Assaults could be demolished in 1 v 1 combat in past MechWarrior games, quite easily. The weight/firepower issue only starts really becoming set once you incorporate team play, because the lights lose the ability to stay out of their opponents firing arc entirely, as someone should always be able to get them sighted up.

[Malgian]

I'd like to see Lights shine in other areas, namely, that of Information and/or Electronic Warfare.

The way ChromeHounds handled scouts was pretty awesome. You had to fit a radar dish if you wanted to broadcast enemy positions to your allies. If you had one, your allies could basically see your radar as though it were theirs, otherwise, they could only see their own limited radar.

I'd like to see MWO do something similar, where Lights have a longer radar view range and can either fit a module to broadcast to their allies, or just broadcast inherently. Give the lights a purpose! Maybe give them painting lasers to help guide LRMs fired from other Mechs?

I imagine a light speeding up the front or up a flank to peer over a ridge to view the enemy position and staying put to relay info until the engagement begins, then coming in closer to flank the rear and support the combat.

Edited by Malgian, 09 March 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[xSNAKEx]

Jehan, on 09 March 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

From my point of view, It's a matter of size.... of WEAPONS.

An ER-PPC is a ER-PPC, no matter if it's mounted on a light mech or in an assault mech. And if the hardcore fans truly want this game to stay as closest to canon as possible, they should remember that an ER-PPC shot right in the cockpit shreds all the armor, wrecks the head's internal structure, kills the pilot and instantly disables even the heaviest mechs.

Light mechs are adept at scouting because of their lightweight construction which gives them speed and maneuverability, but suffer from the lack of heavy armor and limited weapon payload. That said, if a light mech somehow manages to mount a big gun, that gun becomes an extremely mobile threat, which cannot simply be ignored because you are 'bigger'.

If a pilot is so skilled (or lucky) to place a PPC shot in the cockpit of a moving enemy target while being itself under fire and dodging missiles, it should be rewarded for doing so. I don't get why assault mechs should get that 'free ticket' against light mechs. You shouldn't understimate any opponent in any circumstances. Even the weakest small laser is able to trigger an ammo explosion or disabling your gyro.

If thats the case then I guess my prediction wouuld be right after all. There will be little point going in a heavy if all mechs have this magic weak spot where they are quickly taken out (why would you leave such a vulnerable spot in a heavy mechs design anyway....).

I have never found it hard to aim at a specific location in a past mechwarrioor games getting shot at or not. I mean sure you had to wait like, 1/2 a second if you JUST got shot to re-align, but after that you could land your shot wherever you wanted.

If what you say is true then it looks like we have pop the cherry of the heavy mech scenarios and mission done.

But we just have to wait for the game to find out. I am confident this is one badass game regardless.

Edited by xSNAKEx, 09 March 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[Ragotag]

I think this one deserves playing the beta card... wait till beta *then* voice your concern on this.

[Westonard]

Good luck getting a headshot in any game. Mechwarrior 4 Had it possible but it is hard to get headshots despite what some people say they did. You are far more likely to hit either torso or an arm while you are lining up for that headshot. Remaining true to TT but adding armor so that the heaviest weapons in the game, the PPC, Gauss Rifle, and AC 20 can't one shot you from a lucky shot is a bit dumb. Those are the only three weapons that are an insta kill on Table Top with a headshot. You would have a much easier time shooting a mech from behind where it's armor is weaker to go for the ammo explosion or engine destruction than hoping that you actually hit the head of the mech that someone else is piloting.

[Bluey]

OP sure talks alot and he does that about a matter carefully designed by team leaded by ex Fasa owner <.<

[crazy jake]

I personally have been playing the TT version of Battletech for 25 years and can say very rarely I have piloted a jenner and taken out an asault mech without even being hit, but that is a once in a great while thing. Basically 2 head shots in a row with the 4 med. lasers it has took it out. As a jenner is so fast the other pilot had major penalties to hit me. I have also played every incarnation of Battletech computer game from Crecent hawks inception on my Amiga to MW4 & MWLL, the term NERF does not and cannot apply to anything in the battletech universe. Why? because everything is relative, this isn't an MMO where a warrior class has better armor etc than a squisky mage class. There is no DPS class, tank class etc...... Everything is the same.... relatively speaking. A medium laser is the exact same on a Jenner as it would be on an Atlas.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Randal Waide, on 09 March 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Heavy's have x-armor. And a medium laser = a medium laser. I can't see the grounds for your worries. It will be ok, really.

yeah really...Any of us taht are worring about being outclassed...we musta come from the WoT forums as US Heavy Drivers and have a massive inferiority complex....T9 Tank getting punked like a 6 year old kid by a T6 Medium, cuz the tank is just that bad...

I dont see this game going the way of "Game Balance" much, just awesomeness of Mechwarrior =D

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 09 March 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Malgian, on 09 March 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I'd like to see Lights shine in other areas, namely, that of Information and/or Electronic Warfare.

The way ChromeHounds handled scouts was pretty awesome. You had to fit a radar dish if you wanted to broadcast enemy positions to your allies. If you had one, your allies could basically see your radar as though it were theirs, otherwise, they could only see their own limited radar.

I'd like to see MWO do something similar, where Lights have a longer radar view range and can either fit a module to broadcast to their allies, or just broadcast inherently. Give the lights a purpose! Maybe give them painting lasers to help guide LRMs fired from other Mechs?

I imagine a light speeding up the front or up a flank to peer over a ridge to view the enemy position and staying put to relay info until the engagement begins, then coming in closer to flank the rear and support the combat.

C3 Network
C3 Command Unit
C3 Slave Unit

Implication of C3 or similar system in the 12/29/2011 ISN post...

[mulkosaur]

I don't see how a specific "class" if you will can be nerfed in this game. After all what is the differences betweeen a AC/20 fired into your weakly armored back by a Liao variant Urbanmech, or the AC/20 of the 320 rated Liao Charger? I guess you can nerf the AC/20, but then you have to nerf the AC/10, AC/5, and the AC/2 making all Autocannons the same in power post nerf.

Though as a former WoW player I get the lets cry nerf till we get our way concern on issues X, Y, or Z.. I was the one of two Paladin who was willing to spec prot BC to Cata when the MT Warrior only wanted dps so me and my fellow tankadin understand the OP's position in this post. But the only way to nerf in this game seems to be making all ballistic/energy/missile weapons worthless. Then at that point we are back where we started but just able to chip away less armor. 8)

320 Engine rated Charger that is. My bad. Look up he Charger from I am pretty sure it is the 4th Succesion War book. Or the war of 3039 book. Eitherwaya nice mech for the pre clan era.

[Dlardrageth]

Yes, let's all hope heavy and assault Mechs are going top be nerfed to kingdom come. So anyone piloting them will only be viewed as a walking joke on metal legs.

Or... you could just buy a cheap dictionary and look up words like "balance" or "balancing". That would save us diatribes like the one from the OP. Yeah, sure, PGI has nothing else to do than make heavier Mechs useless or OP as before. Just because the OP says so.

A wise, old man would prolly have to say the following to this: "Here, boy, take this nickel, and now go buy a clue for it..." Good I'm not a wise, old man, right?

[Alaric Hasek]

The Dev questions and the other articles (especially the Role Warfare article) already say that there will be modules for improved enemy detection, scout modules for delivering data to the attacker/defender pilots and attacker/defender modules for receiving this data.

I would suggest that you try to forget how other games played, either MMO or PC/game console-based. You'll be much happier that way.

Finally, I think what we should take from the Dev questions and the various articles about gameplay and such is everything is going to make sense. A Locust isn't going to fight an Atlas and expect to win on a stand-up fight. But I would guess that the way that 1 on 1 matches (when and if they happen) are designed will allow for that very often. From reading the various articles, I think that 'mech weight class is much more important than sheer tonnage in determining how many modules can be loaded on a 'mech, what weapons it can carry, etc. That will help out a lot with 'balance' anyway... there are certain sweet spots of tonnage in each class in the tabletop game that are ideal, eliminating the tonnage bookkeeping will keep us away from that. But, as said up-thread, this will be a team-based game - lance on lance (or company on company) battles. A good Scout in a Pather or a Trebuchet will probably be in high demand as most players go for Attacker heavies or assault 'mechs.

Oh, one more thing that will help: no Clan tech! (well, maybe outside of Wolf's Dragoons) To me, that's the best thing of all, as to me Battletech is more about knight errants piloiting their giant suits of armor and hoping they get enough salvage to fight another battle than Regimental Combat Teams or full Galaxies fighting one another. I know I won't get exactly what I'd like to see, but I'm willing to let this group of people take me for a ride.

Malgian, on 09 March 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I'd like to see Lights shine in other areas, namely, that of Information and/or Electronic Warfare.

The way ChromeHounds handled scouts was pretty awesome. You had to fit a radar dish if you wanted to broadcast enemy positions to your allies. If you had one, your allies could basically see your radar as though it were theirs, otherwise, they could only see their own limited radar.

I'd like to see MWO do something similar, where Lights have a longer radar view range and can either fit a module to broadcast to their allies, or just broadcast inherently. Give the lights a purpose! Maybe give them painting lasers to help guide LRMs fired from other Mechs?

I imagine a light speeding up the front or up a flank to peer over a ridge to view the enemy position and staying put to relay info until the engagement begins, then coming in closer to flank the rear and support the combat.

Edited by Alaric Hasek, 09 March 2012 - 07:49 PM.