150 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

verybad, on 24 September 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Well we know it's an Assault (if followng the previous release pattern). We also know that marketing took a specific interest in this one, so it's likely awesome. I am expecting it will be released when the game goes open beta in order to draw new players in.

The other option is that it's a clan mech (any bets oin the first clan mech NOT being a Madcat). In which case it's release into the game wouldn't be for quite a while, but would cerrtainly draw interst.

The odds on it being an unseen mech are right around zero. While many of the unseens are very cool, it's a troublesome category for anyone that wants to avoid lawsuits or extra licensing costs.

So I would say most likely, a very cool Inner Sphere assault mech. Next most likely, the first clan mech (in which case half the community starts yowling like loney puppies, and I just go *meh* Least most likely, an Unseen.I'd love the unseens (Marauder and Warhammer esp) but I really fon't think that's gonna happen.

I don't think it will be released for a while however.

If it is an Unseen/Reseen, it is the Battlemaster. That could be a reason for waiting a special occasion to announce (the first Reseen in the game, hey!). The Battlemaster has several variants with lots of weapons each and many with Command Console.

On the other hand, the Batlemaster is too energy weapons-oriented, and we need an Assault ballistics platform. And an Assault with jump. - That's Victor (there is a variant with 3 to 4 ballistic hardpoints).

I don't think they will skip the last IS mech to show the clans first. So, it will be Battlemaster or Victor.

[Alex Wolfe]

Odanan, on 24 September 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

If it is an Unseen/Reseen, it is the Battlemaster. That could be a reason for waiting a special occasion to announce (the first Reseen in the game, hey!). The Battlemaster has several variants with lots of weapons each and many with Command Console.

The Cockroach King? Oh my. If it's true, the redesign had better been epic. I totally read somewhere official and canon* that since that thing has an utterly giant head that doesn't fit in conventional dropships, every Battlemaster has to be carried to deployment zones sans the cockpit, and the canopy itself is shipped later through a dozen specialized ships, then assembled planetside. A logistic nightmare, not unlike one that costed Clans the war.

Well, FD's work has been nothing but, so this part is a given, still... I'd rather expect Santa at this point rather than Unseen (and it's only September).


*truth mileage may vary

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 24 September 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Alcatraz968]

It will be:
A- Medium with jumpjets. There's a huge medium role problem going on. Both mechs are like assault mechs with less armor right now.
B- Heavy around 70-75 range. There is a nice gap there.
C- Assault around 85-95 range. Gap also. Would be nice to have jump-jets also.

[Zervziel]

Considering the Unseen/Reseen is still a bit of an issue and that the Clans have yet to invade, I doubt either of those and would particularly be disappointed that they passed up other perfectly fine assault mechs just to stick in an Unseen. I have never understood the immense amount of fanwank surrounding them. I much prefer the home-brewed mechs that are Battletech through and through and not some design taken from an anime.

Also people need to take note that the next mech is an assault as it is the only class with 3 mechs in it.


Here are the assualt mechs that fit the bill of horrendous ballistics monster from that era:

Devastator
100 tons
2 PPC
2 Gauss
4 mlas
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devastator

Pretty decent long range punch with enough med range punch to remain viable in close quarters

Emperor
90 tons
2 LBX AC10
2 Lls
2 Mpls
1 Mls
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Emperor

Pretty potent at all ranges and aside from the LBX which would be saved for knockout blows, ammo independent.


Highlander
90 tons
2mlas
1 SRM 6
1 LRM 20
1 Gauss
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Highlander

For all intents and purposes, basically a watered down AS7-D except with jump jets and replacing the AC 20 with a gauss.

King Crab
100 tons
2 AC20
1 LRM 15
1 Lls
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/King_Crab

Ah the King Crab. Unique chassis, can at least be helpful at long range, and just about the last thing you want to run into in an close-quarters fight.

Thunder Hawk
100 tons
3 gauss
4mls
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_Hawk

Aside from sounding like an awesome band, this thing has three bloody gauss rifles and four med lasers, so closing with this thing is only going to bring even more pain. Pretty cool looking too.

Victor
80 tons
1 AC20
2 Mls
1 SRM 4
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Victor

It definitely hurts at close range, but is pretty "Meh" looking and resembles about 4 other mechs as well.

*Annihilator
100 tons
4 LBX 10 autocannons
4 Mpls
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Annihilator

This one is marked as maybe because it walks the line of Clan tech and IS tech. Seen in the Inner Sphere before the Clan invasion in the hands of the Wolf Dragoons, this thing is effectively a walking shotgun. A very slow walking shotgun at that. Unlikely to be used.

Edited by Zervziel, 24 September 2012 - 05:05 PM.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Deathsiege, on 24 September 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

How about something to go head-to-head with an Atlas like a Mauler!

You have clearly overlooked three things:
-The Awesome.
-The Stalker
-The Jenner


Still, I would prefer a King Crab. Maulers exist solely to be shot at.

Edited by Alaric Wolf Kerensky, 24 September 2012 - 05:26 PM.

[Akaryu]

they're taking the frustrate the customer by making them wait an eternity for a mech that by the time they announce it many people will be annoyed that they didnt announce it sooner or that they waited this long a mech they hate approach....totally reasonable.

[Hexenhammer]

Akaryu, on 24 September 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

they're taking the frustrate the customer by making them wait an eternity for a mech that by the time they announce it many people will be annoyed that they didnt announce it sooner or that they waited this long a mech they hate approach....totally reasonable.

If its the Timberwolf everybody will say, "Duh!" and wonder why they waited.
If its an unseen mech heads will explode.

[Nakuru]

It's almost definitely not going to be a clan mech. Not unless it's announced later next year. And there wouldn't be any point to it anyway without the Clans being playable, because, let's face it....you couldn't exactly purchase Clan tech at the time that this game is set.

Unseen is highly unlikely also, largely because of the legal obstacles for it. Licensing issues and all that fun.

There are tons of other mechs for them to choose from with varying degrees of popularity. The only thing that's almost a guarantee is that it's another Assault.

[uebersoldat]

Honestly, if it's an unseen I would be worried about PGI's future due to the legalities. Remember that Weisman and crew thought they had the rights before back in 08-09, and once again. HG's lawyers were awoken and it was all shut down again.

I love the unseen. I love them and I WANT them. But I'd rather this game be as successful as possible without legal issues down the road threatening to shut it all down.

Like others have said, it's probably an Urbie, which is still pretty darn awesome.

[Agent Cooper]

A little birdie told me #16 makes its first appearance in the magazine article.

[Odanan]

Zervziel, on 24 September 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Considering the Unseen/Reseen is still a bit of an issue and that the Clans have yet to invade, I doubt either of those and would particularly be disappointed that they passed up other perfectly fine assault mechs just to stick in an Unseen. I have never understood the immense amount of fanwank surrounding them. I much prefer the home-brewed mechs that are Battletech through and through and not some design taken from an anime.

Also people need to take note that the next mech is an assault as it is the only class with 3 mechs in it.


Here are the assualt mechs that fit the bill of horrendous ballistics monster from that era:

Devastator
100 tons
2 PPC
2 Gauss
4 mlas
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devastator

Pretty decent long range punch with enough med range punch to remain viable in close quarters

Emperor
90 tons
2 LBX AC10
2 Lls
2 Mpls
1 Mls
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Emperor

Pretty potent at all ranges and aside from the LBX which would be saved for knockout blows, ammo independent.


Highlander
90 tons
2mlas
1 SRM 6
1 LRM 20
1 Gauss
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Highlander

For all intents and purposes, basically a watered down AS7-D except with jump jets and replacing the AC 20 with a gauss.

King Crab
100 tons
2 AC20
1 LRM 15
1 Lls
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/King_Crab

Ah the King Crab. Unique chassis, can at least be helpful at long range, and just about the last thing you want to run into in an close-quarters fight.

Thunder Hawk
100 tons
3 gauss
4mls
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_Hawk

Aside from sounding like an awesome band, this thing has three bloody gauss rifles and four med lasers, so closing with this thing is only going to bring even more pain. Pretty cool looking too.

Victor
80 tons
1 AC20
2 Mls
1 SRM 4
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Victor

It definitely hurts at close range, but is pretty "Meh" looking and resembles about 4 other mechs as well.

*Annihilator
100 tons
4 LBX 10 autocannons
4 Mpls
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Annihilator

This one is marked as maybe because it walks the line of Clan tech and IS tech. Seen in the Inner Sphere before the Clan invasion in the hands of the Wolf Dragoons, this thing is effectively a walking shotgun. A very slow walking shotgun at that. Unlikely to be used.

Most of these mechs barely exist in 3049. You made a great job posting so much information but forgot some minor details:

Devastator: too new, uncommon and variant restricted;
Emperor: extinct, not produced again yet;
Highlander: extinct, not produced again yet, variant restricted, Atlas with jump; (fixed! thanks, Sparks)
King Crab: too uncommon and variant restricted;
Thunder Hawk: extinct, not produced again yet;
Annihilator: rare, and Wolf Dragoons only.

Edited by Odanan, 25 September 2012 - 08:48 AM.

[Sparks Murphey]

Alcatraz968, on 24 September 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

It will be:
A- Medium with jumpjets. There's a huge medium role problem going on. Both mechs are like assault mechs with less armor right now.
B- Heavy around 70-75 range. There is a nice gap there.
C- Assault around 85-95 range. Gap also. Would be nice to have jump-jets also.

A- You mean like the Trebuchet -5J, a jumping, fast medium? Or the Cicada, which doesn't jump but has speed out the wazoo?
B- Like, say, the Cataphract?
C- Okay, can see your point here (though the Stalker is an 85-tonner, and if you want a 95-tonner it's pretty much the Banshee or bust). The Highlander would fill this role nicely...

My only concern with that is that it puts too much emphasis on 'Mechs being "different" just because they happen to weigh differing amounts. As Zervziel pointed out, the Highlander is basically a cut-down Atlas. I'm more expecting something different and out there, especially with the emphasis on this being a marketing decision. So, I'd expect:

A- The Charger. It's fast, and utterly unlike any other Assault we've got. Heck, it's faster than most of our announced heavies. It's likely to get a negative fan reaction, but I could really see it working in the game. And, if you don't like the primary variant, there are plenty of others that are adapted to other situations.

B- The BattleMaster. Huge head on the unseen version aside, the reseen BattleMaster is in better scale, and is the poster boy for the current line of Classic BattleTech. Two of the six current House leaders favour the thing (Takashi Kurita and Hanse Davion). It almost has enough variants to field an entire company of unique models. This would be a great draw card for the three tabletop players who have been living under a rock and not heard about MWO yet.

C- A Clan assault 'Mech. Not the "everyone one expects it" Mad Cat, simply because, well, it's a Mad Cat, and everyone expects it. An assault 'Mech would round out the 4-to-a-weight-class theme they've got going so far, and a Clan one would set the stage for the Clan Invasion. The hard bit would be picking one that isn't going to totally upstage the other Assaults (I'm looking at you, Dire Wolf and Warhawk), so I'd go with the Gargoyle. It's big, it's Clan, it's as fast as the Charger, but carrying more effective weapons.

Odanan, on 24 September 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Devastator: too new, uncommon and variant restricted;
Emperor: extinct, not produced again yet;
Emperor: extinct, not produced again yet;
King Crab: too uncommon and variant restricted;
Thunder Hawk: extinct, not produced again yet;
Annihilator: rare, and Wolf Dragoons only.

Think what Odanan meant to say was that the Highlander is extinct and not produced again yet, rather than the double Emperor line.

[Zervziel]

Sparks Murphey, on 24 September 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

A- You mean like the Trebuchet -5J, a jumping, fast medium? Or the Cicada, which doesn't jump but has speed out the wazoo?
B- Like, say, the Cataphract?
C- Okay, can see your point here (though the Stalker is an 85-tonner, and if you want a 95-tonner it's pretty much the Banshee or bust). The Highlander would fill this role nicely...

My only concern with that is that it puts too much emphasis on 'Mechs being "different" just because they happen to weigh differing amounts. As Zervziel pointed out, the Highlander is basically a cut-down Atlas. I'm more expecting something different and out there, especially with the emphasis on this being a marketing decision. So, I'd expect:

A- The Charger. It's fast, and utterly unlike any other Assault we've got. Heck, it's faster than most of our announced heavies. It's likely to get a negative fan reaction, but I could really see it working in the game. And, if you don't like the primary variant, there are plenty of others that are adapted to other situations.

B- The BattleMaster. Huge head on the unseen version aside, the reseen BattleMaster is in better scale, and is the poster boy for the current line of Classic BattleTech. Two of the six current House leaders favour the thing (Takashi Kurita and Hanse Davion). It almost has enough variants to field an entire company of unique models. This would be a great draw card for the three tabletop players who have been living under a rock and not heard about MWO yet.

C- A Clan assault 'Mech. Not the "everyone one expects it" Mad Cat, simply because, well, it's a Mad Cat, and everyone expects it. An assault 'Mech would round out the 4-to-a-weight-class theme they've got going so far, and a Clan one would set the stage for the Clan Invasion. The hard bit would be picking one that isn't going to totally upstage the other Assaults (I'm looking at you, Dire Wolf and Warhawk), so I'd go with the Gargoyle. It's big, it's Clan, it's as fast as the Charger, but carrying more effective weapons.

The Battlemaster is an Unseen and even the Reseen version is still a potential lawsuit hotspot. Any art of it's new look would have to be scrutinized to make sure it's not too close. So I'd say unlikely.

Clan Assault mech? Even more unlikely. They still haven't finished balancing the IS weapons, they aren't going to throw in a mech that can literally carry as much weaponry as two IS assaults.

The Charger? No thanks. How about an assault mech that actually is ballistic oriented? The Atlas is a mix, Awesome is mostly a laser boat, Stalker is a missile boat, so it'd be nice to have a mech that is ballistic oriented like the ones I mentioned.

Odanan, I do realize the scarcity of the mechs listed, but quite frankly I don't care. I liked canon, but in cases like this, I go for fun over canon. Why limit ourselves to mechs we've seen before when there are plenty that we haven't on the grounds "It's rare"

[Vassago Rain]

Uhhh, a stalker?

[Monsoon]

I doubt it's a clan mech since the inner sphere invasion (Wave 1) won't be until March/April of next year.

I'll go with Battlemaster or Marauder myself, being overly hopeful. (More likely the BM.)

[Eximar]

It's not clan. It'll be a Victor or a Zeus. Then 4 more IS before anyone sees anything clan.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

It being announced doesn't get it into the game any faster than it not being announced.

[Sparks Murphey]

Zervziel, on 24 September 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

The Battlemaster is an Unseen and even the Reseen version is still a potential lawsuit hotspot. Any art of it's new look would have to be scrutinized to make sure it's not too close. So I'd say unlikely.

Clan Assault mech? Even more unlikely. They still haven't finished balancing the IS weapons, they aren't going to throw in a mech that can literally carry as much weaponry as two IS assaults.

The Charger? No thanks. How about an assault mech that actually is ballistic oriented? The Atlas is a mix, Awesome is mostly a laser boat, Stalker is a missile boat, so it'd be nice to have a mech that is ballistic oriented like the ones I mentioned.

Odanan, I do realize the scarcity of the mechs listed, but quite frankly I don't care. I liked canon, but in cases like this, I go for fun over canon. Why limit ourselves to mechs we've seen before when there are plenty that we haven't on the grounds "It's rare"

I tend to agree with your assessments, and I think any of the six you listed would be great contenders (to clarify, my post quoting Odanan was a syntactical correction, not an agreement; I'd prefer more ballistic boats myself). What I was angling at was more about what I'm expecting than what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping for a Zeus, a Highlander, or a Thunder Hawk. I'm expecting a Charger, a BattleMaster, or a Clan assault. My post was also partly about how I disagree with Alcatraz968's predictions, while offering some more of my own.

The BattleMaster being Reseen is less a problem than you might think. While most of the Unseen are from Macrossbotech (and are having their troubles because of that), the BattleMaster comes from Dougram. Along with the Griffin and the Shadow Hawk, Catalyst haven't had any troubles with the new art for the Dougram Unseen. As mentioned, the Reseen BattleMaster features prominently on their front covers. Heck, it's in the BattleTech logo:


As for the IS weapons not being balanced yet, so the Clan weapons can't be in there...well, they are going to be. Sure, I don't think they are going to just come out and go "Look, BattleMech #16 is an Ice Ferret, and the next patch will feature it!" but they have planned for the Clan Invasion. By the in game timeline, it's scheduled for March next year. The devs have already said they'd be crazy not to sell us Mad Cats. Simply announcing the concept art for a Clan assault wouldn't compromise that.

Yeah, the Charger hasn't got much in the way of ballistic weapons (though the -1A5 would be the heaviest thing to cart an AC/20 around the field at greater than 64 kmph). But I don't think PGI are seeing 'Mechs primarily in the sense of what hardpoints they'd have. One of their main design pillars is Role Warfare. From a hard point perspective, the Dragon is a baffling 'Mech to have in there, since it's got an almost identical loadout to the Centurion, but poorer and faster. Why not, say, the Orion, or the Guillotine, or the Grasshopper? All have better weapons loads than the Dragon or the Centurion (especially the Orion, whose weapons are basically the Dragons but with more LRMs and SRMs). The downside, of course, being that they're all capped out at 64 kmph. The Dragon, therefore, makes for a great 'Mech for the Scout role. The Spider and the Cicada are in the same boat - they don't make sense as desirable 'Mechs, unless you take into account the Scout role. And what assault scouts better than any other? The Charger. It does 86 kmph in it's primary configuration. It's primarily short ranged. It has variants that run the gamut of other roles, from close brawling (the 1A5, with and AC/20 and twin SRM6s) to long-range support (the -3K, which jumps 150 metres and carries an LRM 20 with Artemis. Poptarts, anyone?)

Don't get me wrong, I think the BattleMaster or a Clan assault would be a mistake at this stage. The BattleMaster would be a cheap tie-in to BattleTech without an awful lot substantial to add (it's basically an energy boat, like the Awesome), and a Clan assault would leave IS players ranting about not getting their fourth assault. Both of them would leave me feeling that they'd done it simply for spectacle and because they can. But considering marketing is their main angle, spectacle could be what's driving this.

The Charger, though, well, to paraphrase you: The Atlas is a mix brawler, Awesome is mostly a laser boat sniper, Stalker is a missile boat support, so it'd be nice to have a mech that is ballistic a scout like the Charger.

[verybad]

I could accept a reseen Battlemaster, so long as it wasn't as lanky as some of the artwork from the TROs has been, but I don't thin that would be an issue. There's already an 85 tonner in the qeue with the Stalker however.

BTW

Dragon isn't a scout, it's a cavalry mech, it can support you on the map in various roles, it's a jack of all trades, outranked in many categories, but able to fill many categories to a certain extent also.It's certainly not a specialist, and it's definately not a scout. (Though it can perform scouting)

Edited by verybad, 24 September 2012 - 09:19 PM.

[Sparks Murphey]

verybad, on 24 September 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

Dragon isn't a scout, it's a cavalry mech, it can support you on the map in various roles, it's a jack of all trades, outranked in many categories, but able to fill many categories to a certain extent also.It's certainly not a specialist, and it's definately not a scout. (Though it can perform scouting)

It's also one of the few capable of doing scouting in this period. Alternatives are the Champion (primarily a Star League era machine), the Exterminator (ditto), the Ostroc and Ostsol (both Unseen), and the Quickdraw (a strong candidate, about on par with the Dragon). It's not so much that looking at the Dragon you assume it's a scout (because, as you say, it's not really) but more that if you go looking for a heavy 'Mech to fit the scout role, you come up with the Dragon and the Quickdraw, both of which would otherwise be odd choices. Go looking for an assault to fit the scout role, you end up with the Charger.