639 replies to this topic

[EmperorMyrf]

Assuming I did my math right, it should be moving at 176.9 km/h with the biggest engine and MASC

Which is reason enough to grab one of these

[Strum Wealh]

EmperorMyrf, on 27 May 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Assuming I did my math right, it should be moving at 176.9 km/h with the biggest engine and MASC

Which is reason enough to grab one of these

Well, the basic Flea variant starts with a 120-rated Engine.

The engine restriction multiplier for Light 'Mechs is 1.4x, which gives the Flea a maximum rating of 170 (120 * 1.4 = 168, round up to 170).
With this, the Flea would have a baseline cruise/"walking" speed of maximum speed of 91.8 kph (10.8 * (170/20)) and a baseline maximum/"running" speed of 137.7 kph (16.2 * (170/20)).

MASC allows a 'Mech to move at twice its "walking" speed; MASC by itself would increase the maximum speed of this example Flea to 183.6 kph (2 * 91.8).

With Speed Tweak (which increases the 'Mech's speed by 10% - that is, multiplies speed by 1.10) is factored in while MASC is active, the maximum speed of the Flea increases again from 183.6 kph to 201.96 kph (which is equal to 56.1 m/s, or just under half of the flight speed of the LRMs (which is 120 m/s)).

[Adridos]

Strum Wealh, on 27 May 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

With Speed Tweak (which increases the 'Mech's speed by 10% - that is, multiplies speed by 1.10) is factored in while MASC is active, the maximum speed of the Flea increases again from 183.6 kph to 201.96 kph (which is equal to 56.1 m/s, or just under half of the flight speed of the LRMs (which is 120 m/s)).

That's how fast Commandos were back in early beta. Also the time when flamers ruled...

[Strum Wealh]

Adridos, on 27 May 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

That's how fast Commandos were back in early beta. Also the time when flamers ruled...

I take it you mean, before the engine restrictions were installed?

Though, even with all of MASC (assuming it isn't chassis/variant-restricted, like ECM) and Speed Tweak and packing the highest-rated engine it can with the current system (a 210), the Commandos (including Death's Knell, with its similar engine cap in spite of it's larger starting engine) could only reach 199.58 kph.
(If TDK were allowed its full 1.4x multiplier, it could theoretically reach 232.58 kph... )

The Spiders (with MASC + Speed Tweak + max Engine (255)) would be limited to 201.96 kph.
The Jenners (with MASC + Speed Tweak + max Engine (300)) would be limited to 203.66 kph.
The RVN-3L (with MASC + Speed Tweak + max Engine (295)) would be limited to 200.26 kph.
The other Ravens (with MASC + Speed Tweak + max Engine (245)) would be limited to 166.32 kph.

I can imagine that, as far as the Lights are concerned, that MASC might be variant-restricted to all of the Flea variants (to give them the niche of being the (potential) fastest) and the slower Ravens (to make them more attractive/competitive versus the 3L and other Lights).

Thoughts?

[Adridos]

Strum Wealh, on 27 May 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I take it you mean, before the engine restrictions were installed?

The Spiders (with MASC + Speed Tweak + max Engine (255)) would be limited to 201.96 kph.
The Jenners (with MASC + Speed Tweak + max Engine (300)) would be limited to 203.66 kph.
The RVN-3L (with MASC + Speed Tweak + max Engine (295)) would be limited to 200.26 kph.
The other Ravens (with MASC + Speed Tweak + max Engine (245)) would be limited to 166.32 kph.

I can imagine that, as far as the Lights are concerned, that MASC might be variant-restricted to all of the Flea variants (to give them the niche of being the (potential) fastest) and the slower Ravens (to make them more attractive/competitive versus the 3L and other Lights).

Thoughts?

Yep, back before the engine restrictions got put into place.

As far as MASC goes, I also think it should be restricted for special chassis (like CTF-3L, or at least it's predecessor 1X getting it). Without those restrictions, it would more or less become forced standard as speed is life in this game and with 5 crit and 5 tons equipment in the biggest mech around, scaling down in requirements each 20 tons, I really doubt it would be anything but a necessity.

[Khanahar]

The tonnage limit on speed is a temporary measure while they get the netcode where they want it so you can actually hit those speedy buggers. Though I think they should give lights the same 1.3 modifier as mediums. Mediums could use some love.

So, my calculations going by the letter of the rules (not accounting for chassis quirks now or later) suggest speeds in these tiers (all 'mechs in each tier tied, except for rounding engine sizes). Speeds are approximate, some leeway on rounding.

tweaked/not

432.........LRM
199/181..Flea (MASC), Spider
185/168..Cicada (most)
175/159..Jenner
162/147..CDA-3C
150/136..Commando, Flea, RVN-3L
139/126..CN9-D, TBT-3C

--current speed cap 137.7--

124/113..Raven (most)
116/105..Trebuchet (most), BJ-1X
107/97....Dragon
92/84.....Centurion (most), Hunchback, Blackjack
86/78.....Victor, Orion, Cataphract (most), Catapult, Jagermech, AWS-9M
64/58.....Atlas, Highlander, Stalker, Awesome (most), CTF-4X

Edited by Khanahar, 27 May 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Khanahar, on 27 May 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

The tonnage limit on speed is a temporary measure while they get the netcode where they want it so you can actually hit those speedy buggers. Though I think they should give lights the same 1.3 modifier as mediums. Mediums could use some love.

So, my calculations going by the letter of the rules (not accounting for chassis quirks now or later) suggest speeds in these tiers (all 'mechs in each tier tied, except for rounding engine sizes). Speeds are approximate, some leeway on rounding.

tweaked/not

432.........LRM
199/181..Flea (MASC), Spider
185/168..Cicada (most)
175/159..Jenner
162/147..CDA-3C
150/136..Commando, Flea, RVN-3L
139/126..CN9-D, TBT-3C

--current speed cap 137.7--

124/113..Raven (most)
116/105..Trebuchet (most), BJ-1X
107/97....Dragon
92/84.....Centurion (most), Hunchback, Blackjack
86/78.....Victor, Orion, Cataphract (most), Catapult, Jagermech, AWS-9M
64/58.....Atlas, Highlander, Stalker, Awesome (most), CTF-4X

Of note is that the speed cap and the engine cap are not, strictly speaking, the same thing.

The engine cap, which is a function of a given BattleMech's weight class and its stock engine, determines the (theoretical) maximum speed of the 'Mech (along with quirks, efficiencies, add-on gear, and so on).

The speed cap, on the other hand, is an anti-latency measure that can override the capabilities that would be allowed by the engine cap - that is, if a given 'Mech/engine combination (that would be allowable under the engine cap rules) would otherwise be able to exceed the speed cap (currently on the order of ~150 kph), the 'Mech's top speed will be capped at the speed cap.

Once the game is more stable, there is a chance (IMO, a reasonably high one) that the speed cap will be removed.

Though, as the engine cap enforces the roles certain 'Mechs (most notably, Light 'Mechs vs Mediums) and increases the individuality of 'Mechs within a given weight bracket (e.g. Jenner vs Raven, and Centurion vs Hunchback vs Trebuchet).
IMO, there is a reasonably high chance that the engine cap will remain, efen if/when the speed cap is removed.

[hillwaytop]

not another light mech! gimme a heavy or assualt please! current state of game isnt very light friendly anyhow, what with the lag spikes teleporting folks all over...

Edited by hillwaytop, 27 May 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[EmperorMyrf]

Strum Wealh, on 27 May 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

the maximum speed of the Flea increases again from 183.6 kph to 201.96 kph (which is equal to 56.1 m/s, or just under half of the flight speed of the LRMs (which is 120 m/s)).

I think I like that number better lol

[Strum Wealh]

EmperorMyrf, on 27 May 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

I think I like that number better lol

Though, keep in mind that those numbers assume that the speed cap (which, strictly speaking, is not the same thing as the engine cap) is eventually removed.

[Khanahar]

Strum Wealh, on 27 May 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Of note is that the speed cap and the engine cap are not, strictly speaking, the same thing.
...
Though, as the engine cap enforces the roles certain 'Mechs (most notably, Light 'Mechs vs Mediums) and increases the individuality of 'Mechs within a given weight bracket (e.g. Jenner vs Raven, and Centurion vs Hunchback vs Trebuchet).
IMO, there is a reasonably high chance that the engine cap will remain, efen if/when the speed cap is removed.

Kinda what I was trying to get at with my post listing speeds without the speed cap. The engine cap guides that list, and the current speed cap is listed. But an important thing to point out for sure.

I, for one, hope the speed cap is lifted eventually. Would give the Flea and Spider a reason to exist. The engine cap, on the other hand, I agree, is essential to maintaining the individuality of chassis.

[Deathlike]

The Flea is DOA. Even a basic Jenner-D with Streaks will chase this mech out of existence. Even the Spider-5D has a shot to live... not the Flea.

[Khanahar]

Deathlike, on 27 May 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

The Flea is DOA. Even a basic Jenner-D with Streaks will chase this mech out of existence. Even the Spider-5D has a shot to live... not the Flea.

Which is why it's been put off for forever, so they can implement it with MASC (which means raising/eliminating the speed cap). A MASC Flea going 200kph under cover of ECM could be a vicious enemy.

[Helsbane]

At this point, I wish they'd replace the Flea release with something we can actually use. Plenty of lights to choose from, so why stick with a mech that you can't implement due to program limitations / restrictions. Give us a light that will work with the game as it stands now and back burner the Flea till you can figure out how to implement MASC.

[Khanahar]

Helsbane, on 01 June 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

At this point, I wish they'd replace the Flea release with something we can actually use. Plenty of lights to choose from, so why stick with a mech that you can't implement due to program limitations / restrictions. Give us a light that will work with the game as it stands now and back burner the Flea till you can figure out how to implement MASC.

This would certainly be preferable to launching it without MASC. Any particular light you had in mind?

[Drunk Canuck]

RoboPatton, on 26 March 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm expecting a lot of epic Spider VS Flea battles!

I said hi, like a Spider to a Flea, jump in and your dead - Spider and the Flea

[Helsbane]

Khanahar, on 01 June 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

This would certainly be preferable to launching it without MASC. Any particular light you had in mind?

Without getting into the whole 'unseen' can-o-worms, Mongoose, Sling, and Panther all come to mind. Each would be a decent addition to the available 3050 timeline and would function in game without waiting for MASC to have all the bugs worked out.

[Strum Wealh]

Helsbane, on 02 June 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Without getting into the whole 'unseen' can-o-worms, Mongoose, Sling, and Panther all come to mind. Each would be a decent addition to the available 3050 timeline and would function in game without waiting for MASC to have all the bugs worked out.

Neither the Sling nor the Panther has enough timeline-appropriate common variants (that is, not bearing a character's name (such as "Panther PNT-9R (Tanaka)") or a special name of its own (such as Yen Lo Wang)) - a 'Mech needs to have at least three (3) available "mass-production"/"common" variants to work in the game's XP system (as one needs to unlock the Basic efficiencies on three (3) variants in order to unlock the Elite efficiencies for that chassis), while "named" variants are generally reserved for Hero Mech status.

[Helsbane]

Strum Wealh, on 02 June 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Neither the Sling nor the Panther has enough timeline-appropriate common variants (that is, not bearing a character's name (such as "Panther PNT-9R (Tanaka)") or a special name of its own (such as Yen Lo Wang)) - a 'Mech needs to have at least three (3) available "mass-production"/"common" variants to work in the game's XP system (as one needs to unlock the Basic efficiencies on three (3) variants in order to unlock the Elite efficiencies for that chassis), while "named" variants are generally reserved for Hero Mech status.

Understood. Now is there any reason, with all the other decisions PGI has made that fundamentaly alters BT or MW, that they can't create one more variant in order to make a viable chasis for the game as far as pilot trees go? No, there isn't, and we all know it. The cry of 'stay cannon' has obviously fallen on deaf ears in order to make a mech sim/FPS a viable game, so why stop with what the technical readouts say are available on a particular chasis. If it were a first, then I could see the problem, but it wouldn't be, so the point of 'cannon' is moot by now.

As far as the whole 'unseen' aspect goes, flying debris could (and IMHO, should) create new visuals for things like Locust, Stingers, Warhammers, and Marauders. Given the work that's been done to date, they could be really good and get rid of a pile of limitations as far as what we can expect chasis wise. Make them different enough that HG can't cry foul but mean enough looking that we want to pilot them, and BAM, problem solved.

[White Bear 84]

Love to see one of these take a dual gauss to the face.