126 replies to this topic

[Dlardrageth]

wwiiogre, on 13 March 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

under new rules, the max amount of external heat a make can receive in a turn is now 15. That is it. No matter what conditions are set, the max you can receive is 15. Now on the other hand with an engine crit that is internal not external.

Yeah, that is actually one of the worst parts of the new rules IMHO. One to be best excluded if you play by "house rules", tbh. It leads to ridiculous situations where environmental factors are made a bit of a joke.

Imagine a unit fighting on a tectonically very unstable planetoid. One Mech happens to break through the crust over a tube of mafic lava. And gets well stuck hip-deep in there. What happens? That Mech fortunately has 15 heat sinks, so exactly nothing happens to him despite being bathed in approx. 950° C hot lava permanently. Till the Mech eventually melts. Ludicrous...

[Duncan Carlyle]

Would the question make more sense... if it was TWO flamers vs an Atlas.... mmm... how about 2 flame campers?

[UncleKulikov]

It would take something like 15 flamers to maintain heat on a mech that has 30 total heat sinks on tabletop, but in tabletop Flamers are energy weapons that have very little utility.

[Leetskeet]

Well, I just logged on MWLL for the first time in about two weeks, got about 3 kills and some assists in an Owens C, bought an Atlas Prime, got two kills in that, and had a 6 Flamer Harasser pop up on my rader. Drove straight through all of my allies. I see it crest over a hill, hit it in the face with an LBX20 from about 100m away, dropped the front armor to red. He begins circling me, so I throw it in reverse and turn the opposite way, and catch him backing up with his front facing me again. Another LBX20 in the face. It turns black. Holding the coolant button down this entire time barely kept me below critical heat. I was not firing energy weapons. I eventually run out of a coolant, cook, and explode.

Turned me off of the game for another week or two. So yeah, sure, let people boat flamers and force shutdowns and deaths on other mechs. That'll make this game successful.

Edited by Leetskeet, 14 March 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[AdamBaines]

I say yes but I really dont htink its a real world scenario. A) The mech would have to get close enough to have at the Atlas in that manner and B ) One of the Atlas' friends will come by and pop him.

Its not really an effective tactic.

Edited by AdamBaines, 14 March 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[Fachxphyre]

Seeing as weapons such as flamers and Inferno missiles exist to allow this sort of strategy, it ought to be allowed. However, if said atlas allowed himself to become isolated, let the enemy within that excessively close range AND failed to pay attention to his heat levels, he probably deserves that kind of shameful ending.

[Terick]

This has to be balanced, the Flammers have to cause enough heat to the mech using them to make this useful to prevent the enemy from operating at full effectiveness, but not enough to kill them.

So yes you can keep an AS7-D shutdown... but your going to need a few mechs to do the job.

[HighlandWolf]

Going by this scenario it would be fair AND possible,depending really on how many flamers the mech had on it and as long as he didnt have a rocket launcher loaded with inferno rounds and he doesnt overheat himself and the assault doesnt have extra heat sinks to dissipate heat better

[SMDMadCow]

That's going to take a LOT of flamers to accomplish that.

[wwiiogre]

Or a mech with lots of SRM6 launchers and inferno ammo. Lets see each inferno does 2 heat time six is 12, say you had three srm6 launchers and lots of shots that would be 36 extra heat a round if all missiles hit. Oh my that is one cooked mech, don't you think. the down side to inferno rounds is they are extremely susceptible to heat themselves and have a much lower number to cook off in the mech using them, so they are generally only specially loaded as the first or first and second rounds out of the launchers so you can cook one or two mechs without the long term liability of having that ammo blowing up and cooking you and your own mech.

So if flamers have fuel and infernos have the chance to cook off at lower temps than most ammo, then I am ok with them cooking the enemy mech. They will be a specialty weapon and it will take some skillful piloting and timing to make it work effectively. But hey, lets have a BBQ.

chris

[Hawkeye 72]

Back when I played MW2 Mercs and GBL, I experimented with absurd variants. One was a pure flame-based mech. If the mech was fast enough, you could own fight vs. one mech by keeping him permanently shutdown and eventually cause it to destruct from excessive heat. Against multiple mechs this tactic was less effective due to the close range needed by such a tactic.

My biggest fear is that the flamer goes the way of the grenade launcher in the xbox 360 game "Chromehounds". Players would load their chassis with nothing but grenade launchers (which were terribly overpowered), pick a fast powerplant, and overwhelm opponents with the speed and power. Multiplayer was reduced to this style of play and any other form of mech was obsolete. It killed multiplayer.

As with any game the key is balance. The flamer needs an upside (possibly the ability to cause mechs to overheat/internal ammo explosion, or at least stress their heat sinks to slow down energy weapon use) while having enough downside (large amounts of heat generated) to prevent abuse and only make this tactically advantageous when extremely well coordinated. If the flamer follows the path of the grenade launcher then I am not in favor of this scenario being possible. The MW2 series is (so far) my favorite so any new game that stays faithful to it I am okay with.

[Randal Waide]

I imagine this would make the Firestarter very vulnerable to attack from the Atlas' mates. The flamer is short range. That would mean a tight circle around the Atlas. I'm thinking the Firestarter will get popped long before the atlas.
Comms: "Someone get this guy off me, it's getting' hot in here."
"Roger that big fella, Bravo lance in range. We have him tagged. Time to play pop the mech." * Sounds of multiple launchers over mic.

[Randal Waide]

wwiiogre, on 14 March 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Or a mech with lots of SRM6 launchers and inferno ammo. Lets see each inferno does 2 heat time six is 12, say you had three srm6 launchers and lots of shots that would be 36 extra heat a round if all missiles hit. Oh my that is one cooked mech, don't you think. the down side to inferno rounds is they are extremely susceptible to heat themselves and have a much lower number to cook off in the mech using them, so they are generally only specially loaded as the first or first and second rounds out of the launchers so you can cook one or two mechs without the long term liability of having that ammo blowing up and cooking you and your own mech.

So if flamers have fuel and infernos have the chance to cook off at lower temps than most ammo, then I am ok with them cooking the enemy mech. They will be a specialty weapon and it will take some skillful piloting and timing to make it work effectively. But hey, lets have a BBQ.

chris

Infernos would be a different story, but due to their unstable nature, as dangerous for the shooter as the target.

[Jeager51]

Actualy TT Flamers have been re-worked to have increased effectiveness against infantry and for causeing mayhem in Wooded areas and cities....you use flamers as terror weapons, not as Anti-mech devices.

[TW Rapter]

pfft back in MW3 i used to pop those heavy mechs all the time with my owens i bleive i had round 20 flamers all set up to fire at once on my mech that was enough to cause most mechs to pop in one hit some times 2 just on the overheat alone not counting the ammo exploding.

just make your light mech speed and flamers with JJ and you wont have to bother with camping or if you dont want to over heat em just JJ onto their heads if you land right its insta death and at the least some decent damage

all you really had to do is run full steam into your target attack flush attack and boom and the JJ and the speed let ya dodge the missles they dont have the turning cappabiltys to to keep up with a owens i used to just jump over em or under em depending on terrain and if i was in the air at the time when they were launched good times good times i really miss those times

Edited by TW Rapter, 15 March 2012 - 01:20 AM.

[SnowDragon]

Liking your own posts? What, no friends?

Flamers add more heat than they give, anyway, 2/3 by Classic TT, and I believe it hasn't changed. If the ratio is the same, the Scout'll pop long before the Atlas. Especially since MWO won't allow coolant.

[LordDeathStrike]

the real issue will be getting a flamer scout into range of a mech to try and toast it.


you can try, but ill aim my ac 20 right for your windshield and i bet you drop before i shut down when i hit the over ride.

[TW Rapter]

LordDeathStrike, on 15 March 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

the real issue will be getting a flamer scout into range of a mech to try and toast it.


you can try, but ill aim my ac 20 right for your windshield and i bet you drop before i shut down when i hit the over ride.

ya the ac's were a problem but the missles could be avoided and for lazers just keep one side facing em and hope they dont hit the legs cuz of those "arms" on the owens were like giant shields

as for snowdragon (which is what i named my mech config back in the 90's) y u forum stalking me

[metro]

Ahem..... I am not naming names, but you know who you are.

Stop taunting each other, NO FLAME baiting will be allowed, and stalking someone around the forums, will get your account disabled.

Everyone can contribute, to the conversation, without being personal or nastey.

I will be back to check on this thread.....

Either play nice. or Click it and ticket!

Thank you.

[neodym]

Hell yes!!! it should be possible if he isnt in water and is out of coolant flush AND YOU FLAME HIM FOR ATLEAST 15 seconds.

not just insta perma shutdown with one flamer hit