71 replies to this topic

[Belisarius1]

MaddMaxx, on 19 March 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

So with both indicators available which one do you call out? Torso or Legs? One could be as much as 90 off the other on some Mechs.

You call the one that's pointing at what you want to report, because the indicators are absolute. Usually this would be torso. If I see a target at bearing 235, the target is bearing 235 from my position, not from my direction of travel. It doesn't matter whether I've read it from torso or legs, because the bearing would be the same.

What will happen, as Stalker said, is that pilots will call contact from whichever indicator is most convenient for them. The commander would then adjust the team's bearing to move (legs) and give a bearing to look (torso).

That's how it normally happened, except MW4 only had leg bearings so the fire bearing tended to be a vague "on the right."

Edited by Belisarius†, 19 March 2012 - 08:51 PM.

[StaIker]

Something that hasn't been mentioned, but probably needs to be is the different playing styles informing peoples opinions.

For me and a number of other guys here, NR/FFP games were the norm and in that game type it was common to fight on the move and in the open if the situation called for it. At those times good navigational instruments are a must. As MWO replicates those conditions it will need similar functionality to allow teams to maneuver properly.

For those used to respawn play there is far less movement involved and hence far less requirement for accurate navigation. Often you just face off against an opponent from cover and never really need to know movement or fire bearings because the enemy is always in front of you.

It may be the case that some people who have never had much experience with NR/FFP are not familiar with that combat environment.

[Scar]

You really need only one - for torso.

[GD26]

Now that I've read your further inputs I agree: both will work just fine. Using the torso compass will be ideal for calling out targets without the need of changing course. I can see that now.

However, I wonder whether this won't be made superficial if we'll all have numbered grid-squared maps. All you have to do then is to indicate the respective square and eventually the position whitin that square, say N,NW,S of that square. Here the commander would just say: " Head for that position in that square."

Or if MWO will be anything like WoT, then we'll all se our Lance positions by green dots and as soon as our scouts detect an enemy, they'll be indicated by red dots in which case we'll all be able to see where that enemy is. Here the order would be: "Close in the red dot." (hahaha...that does sound like a peculiar order, doesn't it?)

I don't know....Do I make sense to you guys?

[StaIker]

My experience is that both grids and compass bearings are useful. The grids tend to have value when communicating postions far away from the lance, such as when a scout locates an enemy force. Their exact position in that grid, or their exact bearing is not that important if they are 3k away for instance. But for close fighting the bearings are much more useful when a commander might assign some mechs to fire on 230 and others to fire on 270. At close range the grids lack the precision to direct a formation properly.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"You call the one that's pointing at what you want to report, because the indicators are absolute. Usually this would be torso."

Thus my point made. The Grid system is a great Team item to gather troops form various locations to a single area quickly, as well as indicating enemy troop locations without the immediate need for exact bearings, usually on radar but not a visual, although in MW 3-4 a turning of the Torso to the Red dot would give a pretty clear direct bearing to said target if desired.

I guess with all that said, if we do get 2 bearings on the compass, there will be no need for the current Mini Map based directional arrow of travel indicator...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 20 March 2012 - 07:18 AM.

[Outlaw2]

MaddMaxx, on 20 March 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

I guess with all that said, if we do get 2 bearings on the compass, there will be no need for the current Mini Map based directional arrow of travel indicator...

Its still useful since it gives you a good indication on how you are positioned in relation to the map.

[MaddMaxx]

=Outlaw=, on 20 March 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Its still useful since it gives you a good indication on how you are positioned in relation to the map.

Holy smokes. How many direction of travel indicators does one need? Can I get a Magnetic North pointer added please. It would be useful, seeing as it gives you a good indication on how you are positioned in relation to the map.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 20 March 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[Outlaw2]

Its more useful than you think. I don't see the big deal anyway. We really don't gain anything from removing it. We already have a compass to tell us where north is.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"I don't see the big deal anyway."

I think the term we seek is "Information Overload"

It can be a problem for Pilots that get to much data, to fast, or have to much information available visually to process given short decision window time frames. The military's of Earth devote much time and resources on the subject. Can't speak to the Inner Sphere Think Tanks.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 20 March 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[Outlaw2]

MaddMaxx, on 20 March 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

I think the term we seek is "Information Overload"

It can be a problem for Pilots that get to much data, to fast, or have to much information available visually to process given short decision window time frames. The military's of Earth devote much time and resources on the subject. Can't speak to the Inner Sphere Think Tanks.

Well again, I don't see the big deal. I agree there can be information overload, but I don't think we are there yet. Stalkers suggestion is extremely useful and adds minimal amount of info to the HUD. The minimap directional headings don't exactly clutter the HUD, is intuitive and is very useful. No need to get rid of useful info. Unless we are just looking for something to get rid of, I say keep it. If there is anything about the HUD to clamor about in the name of info overload, its the size of the weapon groupings box. That thing is bigger than it needs to be, but that too is not a big deal.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 20 March 2012 - 03:47 PM.

[Belisarius1]

MaddMaxx, on 20 March 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

Thus my point made. The Grid system is a great Team item to gather troops form various locations to a single area quickly, as well as indicating enemy troop locations without the immediate need for exact bearings, usually on radar but not a visual, although in MW 3-4 a turning of the Torso to the Red dot would give a pretty clear direct bearing to said target if desired.

Your point is not made. I expected you to say that, but hoped you'd be able to work it out for yourself.

The indicators give the same information, but the efficiency with which they give it is very different. If I am moving in formation and see a target while scanning with my torso, having to turn my legs before I call has three very detrimental effects:

1) It delays my call by a second or two, which is in itself enough reason to have a second indicator
2) It puts me in danger, because I am forced to turn head-on to the enemy.
3) It can destroy my team's formation by putting me on other people's way, right when that formation is most needed.

That is why a torso twist bearing is essential. Stalker has already outlined the case for a leg bearing.

Edited by Belisarius†, 20 March 2012 - 08:18 PM.