66 replies to this topic

[cinco]

Zanathan, on 07 October 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Having been reading the forums for sometime and having the pleasure of being invited to closed beta I seriously don't understand everyone's sentiments of 'grinding'. This is a PvP game! The whole point of it is to fight against others players. From what I have read, players are complaining about the grind of fighting against other players ... it boggles my mind. I enjoy PvP and I don't 'feel' that the matches are a grind. The same applies to other PvP games such as FPS. The enjoyment comes out of PvPing and if you don't enjoy this then what is the point of playing this game and complaining about the grind of .. PvPing?

it's a grind because it's a stupid thing and everybody knows it, but because it needs funding, they put up with it.

people who actually enjoy the grind are stupid and rationalizing a very bad thing into a good thing because they lack objectivity.

[Grus]

Janus Wealth, on 07 October 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Thanks Bill!
But is it allright to say that about a process you WILL repeat over and over again? Even if you have your build, have your progress? It´s a PvP-"Arena" type game, all you do is repeat the game on different maps!

And now the weekend-weather-forecast...

Thanks Bob!

well it seems that we will be having some minor flooding from al the tears of the QQ'ers out there so watch out for minor flooding in the downtown area. However look for this front to be passing by this weekend because we have a high pressure front moving towards us in the shape of a 4ERPPC Atlas thats handing out headshots like candy!

Back to you Bill!

[Prophanity]

Zanathan, on 07 October 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

This is the problem see. If the repetitive action is enjoyable then what's the problem?

Having to use a trial mech continuously for any where between 4 and 6 hours of in fight game time (depends how often on your W/L ratio) just to buy the most affordable mech (which is pants for the record), is certainly not fun. Also bear in mind that during that initial grind you're missing out on a key part of the gameply, which is the customisation of the mech.

[Grus]

Prophanity, on 08 October 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

Having to use a trial mech continuously for any where between 4 and 6 hours of in fight game time (depends how often on your W/L ratio) just to buy the most affordable mech (which is pants for the record), is certainly not fun. Also bear in mind that during that initial grind you're missing out on a key part of the gameply, which is the customisation of the mech.

i cant see how this is even possible the trail mech can be very effective if used properly and coordinated with teammates. download Teamspeak and get on the server. Go into LFG channel and you'll see ma MAJOR difference in win/loss. had a "FOR THE LOLZ" fight where we were all in trail mechs against a pre made we won because we worked together and took down a better equipped force. know what you have and what you don't and use every advantage you can and wins/kill will come.

[Name48928]

"Grinding" is when a player does something in-game that they wouldn't normally choose to do in order to secure a future benefit.

I've been playing a he** of a lot of Borderlands 2 these past couple weeks. When I got my first character close to the final missing, I found that I wasn't quite a high enough level to complete/survive the mission (within my given skill level). So I went and completed a few side missions in order to get the XP I needed to level up to be able to complete the final storyline mission. In other words, I chose to grind on a side mission that I didn't really want to complete in order to get something I needed.

Was the side mission fun? Oh, absolutely! But that doesn't make it any less of a grind. I didn't plan on doing it, and I only did it to get some other benefit.

The problem with grinding is when it isn't any FUN.

If I have to grind in a trial Hunchback in a support role just to make enough c-bills to buy a Raven that I can customize for an ECM role, that's fine. Until such time as it becomes a CHORE. And that point, for me, is about 3-4 hours. Tops.

Edited by MinionJoe, 08 October 2012 - 06:19 AM.

[Zanathan]

cinco, on 08 October 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

it's a grind because it's a stupid thing and everybody knows it, but because it needs funding, they put up with it.

people who actually enjoy the grind are stupid and rationalizing a very bad thing into a good thing because they lack objectivity.

Is this really necessary?

[Zanathan]

I totally get what a grind is. I just didn't preceive it as a grind as I was having a blast and before I knew it I had enough funds for a mech (not a light one either) as the fun was battling, regardless of the mech I am using. Also I cycled through the trials not really sticking to just one and that possibly played a role in not feeling like it was a grind.

But I understand everyone's sentiments and Noth provided a very reasonable solution IMO =)

Noth, on 07 October 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

You don't have to lower the cost of mechs universally. What you can do to help players get past the initial grind (and hook them) is offer the first mech purchase be at a discount. Or introduce a leasing model that allows you to get a mech but pay it off over time. The idea is to decrease the starting grind, not decrease all the grind.

[Kagenn]

The grind i experienced was during the initial stages of playing the game, before i got my first mech. Used to playing mmos alone and with a slightly aging computer and not the best ping in the game, it was easy to feel the grind by losing 90% of the first week and earning some 60k C-Bills to get straight to my first mech (Centurian). Losing almost every game due to inexperienced, lack of control knowledge and the amount of game rewards (3.4m / 60k ) made it feel grindish, making you calculate how many more games you need till you can afford that mech and then the possible upgrades you may need to save up for as well.

But i suppose it would be different for others, like grinding out 3 variants to unlock the elite skills, or grinding more to afford that next assault mech. But such are mmos, be it PvP or PvE, there will always be a grind unless you are willing to spend money for some benefits (cosmetics, money/xp boost, premium items) for that instant gratification and no grind. I would think that when you are working towards a goal while repeating the same task over and over again which you may get bored of creates the feeling of grinding. In this game's case it's also possibly due to the fact the game is in beta and the availability of only one game mode so far. As much as i enjoy PvP, i very much enjoy playing Co-op as well against AI.

[Banshee Bullet]

MinionJoe, on 08 October 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

"Grinding" is when a player does something in-game that they wouldn't normally choose to do in order to secure a future benefit.

Bingo
I wouldn't normally choose to pilot a hunch without a XL, so when I have to it's a little annoying. However, it's still fun.
Get it?

[GDL Germ]

Riztro, on 07 October 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

They have to do it if the other people playing want the company making the game to earn good money so they can get more shiny stuff.

Re: Grind. The only part of the game that I see as legit grindy is working up to the first owned mech in the trials. I'd like to see a cheaper, low-hardpoint/low engine variant at 700k or so to allow for an earlier entry into the mechlab.

Know what I would like to see? everyone start out on equal ground, instead of giving some people advantages and punishing others. Kinda like how it was in the earlier beta, was more enjoyable when everyone had access to everything(everyone started out with some mc, and were free to buy any mech they wanted). And not forced to play in **** mechs unless you pay.

Edited by GDL Germ, 08 October 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[StandingCow]

pursang, on 07 October 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

Gee, I wonder why some people dislike having to do a repetitive action over and over again without any tangible progress?

More news at eleven; back to you Bob.

You mean... playing the game and having fun? Is that now considered a repetitive action over and over?

I have fun in all my games, it doesn't feel like grinding to me at all.... even if I weren't a founder and had to play in trial mechs, the game is still fun.

[jjuurriijj]

The only real grind is the one to your first mech. Since there is no linear progression there is no real reason to get a light if you preffer heavies and that grind is large enough to put new players off, since you get nothing in-between. Once you do get a mech though it gets easier.

[verybad]

Zanathan, on 07 October 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Having been reading the forums for sometime and having the pleasure of being invited to closed beta I seriously don't understand everyone's sentiments of 'grinding'.

Some people are "mech hoarders" and have mroe fun through getting all the toys than they do actually playing. I don't understand that either *shrugs*

[ElCadaver]

I need a match or two of MWO in the morning before work like others need a coffee. I look forward to the games.

People complaining of grinding are only voicing their impatience at the speed at which their self envisioned goals (i.e. a new mech) are coming to pass.

Thanks to MWO for a great free to play exprience.

[verybad]

I generally play it AFTER I have my coffee(s) on days off. Playing it before coffee would kill me.

[Asmosis]

Grus, on 08 October 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

i cant see how this is even possible the trail mech can be very effective if used properly and coordinated with teammates. download Teamspeak and get on the server. Go into LFG channel and you'll see ma MAJOR difference in win/loss. had a "FOR THE LOLZ" fight where we were all in trail mechs against a pre made we won because we worked together and took down a better equipped force. know what you have and what you don't and use every advantage you can and wins/kill will come.

This shouldn't be a problem with the trial mechs, by the time a new player has figured out the controls and starting to get used to piloting the mech (glancing at mini-map to plot direction while cockpit is elsewhere) takes a fair amount of time, then theres learning scouting in the trial jenner (and heat management) Targeting LRM's with the hunchback (and realising what the jenner pilots actually do) and learning from the atlas bigger isnt always better when a couple of light mechs stand in front of you and you can't even see them (while blowing out your legs).

By the time a new player has gotten to grips with all that and is comfortable with piloting, scouting, locking etc they should have enough c-bills to buy a light or possibly medium mech. I dont consider that part of the game a grind.

What happens after trial mechs though, could use some tweeking mainly which seems to be what they are doing atm.

[Nisaki]

I could be wrong, but personally i think most of the people complaining about trial mechs and having to work for what they want instead of having it handed to them, gift wrapped in paper made of gold and lace of diamond, are only upset because they want to do what everyone did to rui- chan- erm... to ...play..... all the other mechwarrior games.
which is.. get heaviest mech, put highest armor, load it with as many guass or ppc as possible, go into halo style oneshotting race in which the game is no longer so much a game of skill as it is a game of who gets the first shot instantly wins.

Again, i could be wrong... but i grew up watching my favourite games get to the point where i had to play against ai just to feel like i was being challenged.. or to feel like i was playing a MECHWARRIOR game, instead of halo.....
people need to understand that this isn't that kind of game, this isn't halo, this is mechwarrior, if you want the good stuff, you fight for it, you earn it, and when you get it, you don't abuse it, you use it.

The thrill of being evenly matched and having a unique layout of equipment on both sides, not knowing what your enemy is packing, not knowing what you're gonna find when you go over that hill or past that tree, the excitement of blazing through a trial in the mountains and suddenly turning a corner to find an atlas staring you down and deciding which weapon he wants to use to send you straight to the abyss.. that instant fear that.. oh-shi* moment... that is one of the main components that can make this game so much better..

But you know what i see instead? everyone wants the biggest baddest thing there is, everyone wants the easy way, no one works for anything anymore, they want it handed to them.

I played with the trial catapult, the k2, for a while after starting, i switched back and forth between it, the jenner, and the atlas, and eventually decided on the k2. why? because it had twin ppc? nope. if anything, i didn't even use the ppc much.. i had the machineguns set to rightclick and the lasers set to leftclick.

It took a few good games to work up enough money to buy my centurion, did i ever feel like the trial mechs werent good enough? not once. if anything i still consider using them even now that i have a mech of my own. they all have good loadouts, sure they dont have exclusively ppc or guass, but i dont think i'd ever use a mech like that in the first place... my honor would be shattered..

Yeah yeah i know i know, you gotta do what everyone else is doing because that website told you it's the only way to win anymore, it's what everyone else is doing, so let's all jump off the cliff too. right? wrong.
you can still win doing your own thing, remember what i said before? this is a game of skill, if you're skilled with your mech and you know your weapons and equipment, then it doesn't matter what you have. what matters in this game is how you use the things you have, not what you can get or what's handed to you.

So complain about the so-called "grind" or the trial mechs all you want, all it really comes down to is being butthurt because you cant start the game with an atlas maxed out on guass like you may or may not be used to in the sadness that has become all the previous mw games.

This "grind" you call it, that is called training, and if you actually took an unbias look back, you'd realize just how much it payed off in improving things like.. your ability to control and manuever your mech, your aim, heat managing, jump jet control and timing, etc.

That's all i want to say for now.. i'm sure this is a long post, but stop whining that you might have to do a little reading, and just read it, it's good for you, you might learn a new word or two.

Rinoa, out.

[SpaceCOW]

I like the repetative pvp action, and the slow process of upgrading and buying your mechs.
Put time into the game get rewarded, if u want to pay for a product your happy with while supporting a company which gives you something in which you can play for free anyway you get rewarded also.
Dont want to pay for it then dont thats fine.
The long time taken to earn your mechs and items make it a very rewarding and satisfying experience when you do get them.

If you get given a car for free do you respect that car to one that you bought with your own money? no.

[Odanan]

Zanathan, on 07 October 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Having been reading the forums for sometime and having the pleasure of being invited to closed beta I seriously don't understand everyone's sentiments of 'grinding'. This is a PvP game! The whole point of it is to fight against others players. From what I have read, players are complaining about the grind of fighting against other players ... it boggles my mind. I enjoy PvP and I don't 'feel' that the matches are a grind. The same applies to other PvP games such as FPS. The enjoyment comes out of PvPing and if you don't enjoy this then what is the point of playing this game and complaining about the grind of .. PvPing?

The way the game is so far, you can be useful whatever is your mech. So no, you don't need to spend countless hours to start to get fun.

[Odanan]

verybad, on 08 October 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Some people are "mech hoarders" and have mroe fun through getting all the toys than they do actually playing. I don't understand that either *shrugs*

"Mech hoarders". ^^

This reminds me of something.