113 replies to this topic

[THE 3rdbreed]

A friend of mine told me that he would have chosen the Capellan Confederation, but that he despised Sun Tzu for ruining the Confederation. Now of course I was shocked, as any Capellan citzien, by the shallowness of judging our great nation simply by one leader,(plus I really like Sun-Tzu.) but it got me thinking. Are there any other would-haves-if-not-for-the-Sun's or any I-am-Capellan-despite-hating-the-Sun.

p.s: If your allegiance is not with the Confederation please feel free to comment, but please do not vote in the poll.
p.s.s:But if your allegiance is not Confederation because of Sun-Tzu please vote appropriately.

Edited by THE 3rdbreed, 20 January 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[Dihm]

Can't argue that he wasn't effective at least.

[Listless Nomad]

I give him a lot of respect for what he did, and his political prowess. He was a better politician than people gave him credit for but I still don't like him. I respect him as an adversary and wouldn't underestimate him - but I dislike the man and his nation.

No offense Cappies

PS I want to take this chance to thank the Capellan players as a whole for being willing to role play and have some fun. Seems like you guys are some of the most consistent in your behavior and it makes this a lot more fun. Much Hate - your enemy the Davion.

[THE 3rdbreed]

Wow, the non-capellans have shown more Sun-Tzu love then my comrades.

[Listless Nomad]

Of course we do - cause we can actually see him. Your citizens are too busy being black bagged, gagged, shot or poisoned to form an opinion!

Edited by Listless Nomad, 20 January 2012 - 01:37 PM.

[THE 3rdbreed]

Whoa there, Sun-Tzu liberated the servitor caste by institutionalizing them. Hold your tongue! Only dangers to society are treated as such.

[Listless Nomad]

You mean like people who can read?

[Adridos]

I love Sun-Tzu. The best strategist the world has ever known and if the game is at least half accurate (Total War series for example) it even helps you win.

As for our Sun-Tzu, I don't worship him, but he is a great chancellor, indeed.

[WMC Gomez]

Although I don't like the Confederation, i do have to admit that Sun-Tzu was the best thing to happen to them since the founding of the confederation. He was the only one for a very long time that wasn't completely insane and he brought it back to pre-Third Secession War status.

Of course they are still alive only by the good grace of the Prince!

[Vincent Hall]

As much as I dislike the Confederation, I respect him for the fact that he managed to fight the shadow of his mother attempting to corrupt him to the insanity that his grandfather, mother, and sister all share.

[HIemfire]

THE 3rdbreed, on 20 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

A friend of mine told me that he would have chosen the Capellan Confederation, but that he despised Sun Tzu for ruining the Confederation. Now of course I was shocked, as any Capellan citzien, by the shallowness of judging our great nation simply by one leader,(plus I really like Sun-Tzu.) but it got me thinking. Are there any other would-haves-if-not-for-the-Sun's or any I-am-Capellan-despite-hating-the-Sun.

p.s: If your allegiance is not with the Confederation please feel free to comment, but please do not vote in the poll.
p.s.s:But if your allegiance is not Confederation because of Sun-Tzu please vote appropriately.

Sun Tzu is not in charge of the Confederation. Romano Liao, his mother, is Chancellor.

(Out of character) Timeline, timeline, timeline. Sun Tzu does not take over till after the Clan Invasion is in full swing and his aunt Candice assassinates Romano for having Justin Allard killed. Romano was trying to have both removed, but Candice had somethiing up her sleeve that caught the assassin off guard. Aside from that, Sun Tzu has the primary focus of trying to get the Confederation back on it's feet after being the bitch in the middle (even with his grandfather's manipulations on certian other Great Houses that is how the Confederation had been treated) for several centuries. He is willing to what ever it takes to do so as long as it doesn't end up with the Confederation in ashes. Are you sure your "friend" isn`t just a closet Davion fan?

Edited by HIemfire, 20 January 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[Alaskan Viking]

Yeah sure, I read his book when I was like 16...wait, we are talking about the ancient Chinese strategist, right?

[Kip Wilson]

Sun-Tzu is a brilliant leader. He brought the Confederation from its knees. Restored the realm to its pre 4th Succession War borders, established a very beneficial alliance with the Magistracy of Canopus (and Taurian Concordat) and reinstilled massive state pride with his xin-sheng movement. He is probably the best thing that has happened to the Confederation in a long long time. If it wasn't for Sun-Tzu, the Confederation would have probably dissappeared entirely.

of course, by no means he is perfect, he's one of the few Chancellors that actually turned the Confederation into an aggressor state (typically the Confederation only defended its borders and rarely did it strike out at other nations unprovoked).

Yes we still may have the Death Commandos and a state that is a little too interested in the daily affairs of its people. But at least us Capellan citizens know our state is spying on us. They don't try to hide the fact under some false pretense of freedom and right to privacy. And every Capellan national can at least read (Im looking at you Davion world of Okefenokee.... ahem) and has access to healthcare. And we earn our citizenship. Its not given to us on a golden platter. So we understand the rights and freedoms we have and not take them for granted!

(really the confederation isnt as bad as most people think

[Thorn Hallis]

He's no warrior, so no likes from me.

[Zectorman]

Sun-tzu was the Chancellor the Confederation needed. If not for his aggressive but necessary political maneuvering, the Confederation would have finally broken. He reclaimed what was lost and made House Liao and the Confederation a force to be reckoned with once more. And without the need to rely Heavily on other houses (Marik) and mercs. He formed an alliance that benefited all members and made them a power house once again.

He gave the Capellan people a nation it could take pride in once more and revivified the military and brought forth a cultural revolution. That is one hell of a Leader. As far as famous leaders go, i believe he belongs with the top 5.

and he was a warrior, i believe he piloted an Emperor at one time

[Thorn Hallis]

Zectorman, on 21 January 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

and he was a warrior, i believe he piloted an Emperor at one time

Techs do the same.

[THE 3rdbreed]

Some of the greatest leaders in history were not "warriors", but instead simply lead. Do not take me wrong. I honor our soldiers more than anyone (a bit of hyperbole, forgive me.), and many many great leaders have come from the Military ranks. But one does not need to be a soldier to be a great leader, as we are shown by his Celestial Wisdom Sun-Tzu.

Quote

Yes we still may have the Death Commandos and a state that is a little too interested in the daily affairs of its people. But at least us Capellan citizens know our state is spying on us. They don't try to hide the fact under some false pretense of freedom and right to privacy.

Do not worry about the Death Commandoes fellow citzien. Even though ours are undoubtedly of a much better quality, every Successor state (minus the FWL and RR) has some sort of independent intelligence/secret police force. Bravo Citzien.

[HIemfire]

Thorn Hallis, on 21 January 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Techs do the same.

(OOC) I would love to see the tech that would pilot a mech into combat alongside the Magistrix to help clean out the WoB infestation that Canopus developed.

[Egomane]

A good warrior is not necessarily a good leader and vice versa.

Sun Tzu is a good leader. He used the resorces he had available make his crumbling nation into a foe all should respect. Not only did he bring back worlds, lost in past wars. Not only did he rebuild the industrial resources to feed his people and to strengthen his military. No, he gave the citizens a common goal and by this he gave the nation back a soul that was lost for a very long time.

But ... this is all in the future. Right now his mother Romano is leading us.

[Tifalia]

My life, my soul for the Chancellor and the Capellan Confederation,