334 replies to this topic

[Wyzak]

And if it is a horrible accident, such as a long tom into a stand of friendly 25 tonners, then the resultant damage will probably be enough to destroy the offending user's mech, removing them from the match instantly. Tough price to pay for an accident, but a new person who makes a mistake like that will try to avoid doing it again.

Edit - spelled mistake wrong. No, really.

Edited by Wyzak, 17 March 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

I 8 40 C00K13Z, on 17 March 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Just disable any team damage like TF2 so you can't really do much harm.

its a mech sim, theres no magic preventing my weapons from hurting my buddy, i just need to make sure i dont shoot him, aka we want FF, we just dont want dickheads abusing it.

Darkrasp, on 17 March 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

If someone costs you the game by killing a teammate right off the bat, then they cost the entire team the loss, not just the person they killed. Having the TKer pay the repair bill for the person they took out doesn't sufficiently compensate the team. The only way that works is through loss forgiveness, which is exploitable if people who are fighting a losing battle blow up their own teammates just so they can claim a TK cost them the match and get it forgiven.

Reputation, and the ability to boot someone in team selection if their rep is bad. Only real way to get rid of teamkilling/afking/other griefing is to not allow those players into your games at all.

true, people that tk regularly, should get flagged for doing it, which in turn gets a dev to start monitoring them to see if they are just unlucky and finishing off dmged friends with fire spread, or actually focus fireing to kill team members, the repair bill thing is to keep the griefed from getting too upset. and like ive mentioned, if you have tkers taking out the team, everyone should just leave the game, after telling the other team why of course so they dont get upset, and then everyone can get a new game and report the d bagger.

[Dras Black]

Wyzak, on 17 March 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

This idea of charging someone for friendly fire repairs is great, but I think the game should go a step further and apply that damage to the offending mech.

For example, say someone in a Jenner team-damages an Atlas and shoots it's arm off. There are more points of armor on an Atlas arm than a Jenner arm, so the damage on the offending Jenner would be arm loss and bleed over into the torso. This makes all players pick shots very carefully, like you would be required to do in real combat, and the feedback from your own mech's damage monitors would serve as a deterrent to intentional woundings. This is especially effective when training people to use Long Toms and area effect weapons. I know in MW4Mercs you generally had to pick a block of enemies your friendlies weren't engaged with if you were going to effectively use the Long Tom because the AI pilots always got in too close. I imagine the same will happen here with all the gung-ho FPS players MWO will attract. So there's no real "bad boy" benefit to be received by shooting at friendlies, because it is only going to damage YOUR mech. And if it's an accident, the damage will remind you to aim more carefully and lay off firing into a melee.

I dono if this as a real good idea. Mainly for the fact that mistakes happen, and if its an "Damn sorry bout that" kind of situation I don't think I should take some kind of reflection damage, a dent to my pocketbook is enough for me to say "Eeeyup, not gona do that if i can help it." Cause if its an accidental then you're just doing more damage to you're teammate who is still useful.

[Watchit]

In addition to other forms of anti-TK measures, maybe with a ranking system implemented their could be an option of setting the team finder to only let those with a certain reputation and above on to your lance. That way players in good standing would be in higher demand than players in lower standing, therefore encouraging better behavior through faster wait times.

Edited by Watchit, 17 March 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[Darkrasp]

Watchit, on 17 March 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

In addition to other forms of anti-TK measures, maybe with a ranking system implemented their could be an option of setting the team finder to only let those with a certain reputation and above on to your lance. That way players in good standing would be in higher demand than players in lower standing, therefore encouraging better behavior through faster wait times.

I like this, and any other mechanism that lets you eliminate poor-reputation players from your team before the match starts. The trick will be in separating "new players" from "bad players". You want to give new people the opportunity to improve, not just bury them in the dumpster with the worst of the community. An unranked, no-cost / no-reward mode where new players can learn the ropes in "practice games" would be sufficient.

[LordDeathStrike]

Watchit, on 17 March 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

In addition to other forms of anti-TK measures, maybe with a ranking system implemented their could be an option of setting the team finder to only let those with a certain reputation and above on to your lance. That way players in good standing would be in higher demand than players in lower standing, therefore encouraging better behavior through faster wait times.

i concur, they should have a setting for those not running premades team finders, you filter out known tkers if you want too, varying levels or rep would be a good idea (we are all gonna have a couple tks on our record eventually, with ff on and hectic battle its unavoidable that at some point, you will hit a friendly, might even be so dmged that your hit is the one that finishes them off)

say the rating system is like thus: total team dmg inflicted > enemy dmg inflicted over x games = ban (obvious griefer, has done more dmg to team then enemies over a number of games determined by devs)
then various levels of how many times your dmg has killed your friendlies could give you a rating 1-10 1 being lowest 10 = you are tking scum no one is that bad of a shot by accident.

people can put in a max tk setting of like 3 for pug teaming, in this example 3 allows for accidents, youve hit your buddies and been unlucky enough to get killing blows when you did, you dont do it on purpose but you dont hold your fire as much as you should probably.

it aint perfect but it would help.

Darkrasp, on 17 March 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

I like this, and any other mechanism that lets you eliminate poor-reputation players from your team before the match starts. The trick will be in separating "new players" from "bad players". You want to give new people the opportunity to improve, not just bury them in the dumpster with the worst of the community. An unranked, no-cost / no-reward mode where new players can learn the ropes in "practice games" would be sufficient.

requires an entire game mode to be added

[Darkrasp]

LordDeathStrike, on 17 March 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

requires an entire game mode to be added

Normal game, except you gain nothing if you win, and you don't pay repairs if you lose. Hence, practice. You really think every new player who comes in just wants to jump in and get demolished by people who have been playing these types of games for years when they don't even know the controls? You can do that for a first person shooter, WASD to move, mouse to aim, left click to fire is pretty obvious. If this plays anything like the other mechwarrior games, then the controls are far more complex and have a way steeper learning curve.

The more complicated the controls, the more important some sort of training or practice mode becomes.

[LordDeathStrike]

Darkrasp, on 17 March 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Normal game, except you gain nothing if you win, and you don't pay repairs if you lose. Hence, practice. You really think every new player who comes in just wants to jump in and get demolished by people who have been playing these types of games for years when they don't even know the controls? You can do that for a first person shooter, WASD to move, mouse to aim, left click to fire is pretty obvious. If this plays anything like the other mechwarrior games, then the controls are far more complex and have a way steeper learning curve.

The more complicated the controls, the more important some sort of training or practice mode becomes.

true enough, but this mode will be full of the griefers for sure since theres no repairs. itll be a ff f*** fest

[Darkrasp]

LordDeathStrike, on 17 March 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

true enough, but this mode will be full of the griefers for sure since theres no repairs. itll be a ff f*** fest

Haha.. True. But at least getting griefed there doesn't cost you anything (except time). Also, I don't have a better option. At this point I'm going to shrug and leave it up to the professionals. I think that in ranked games, you'll need some way to filter out or vote out poor-rep players prior to match start, but how exactly to best accomplish that, I don't know.

Edited by Darkrasp, 17 March 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[Hawkeye 72]

**So POTENTIAL SOLUTION that may make everyone happy here by pooling all your suggestions/input**

Step. 1 Use an in-depth pilot dossier so commanders can evaluate potential recruits prior to a match. Include:

-Reputation score: two values, a computer calculated value and player feedback value. The computer value helps prevent new players from having their rating trashed because of a lack of skill. This value focuses on how well a player works as a teammate aka how few **** moves they make in a game. Too many errant shots or friendly fire erodes the computer value.
-Player contract history: shows contracts pilots picked up, engagement history, result of engagement, etc.
-Faction history: shows common lancemates and faction history
-K/D ratio
-Pilot start date
-TK history-if any, and cite circumstances if feasible. For instance, show where FF hit and how close the impacted player was to an opponent and if there was any LOS conflicts that resulted. This helps show if the hit was merely someone accidentally running in front of a PPC, a poorly placed artillery strike, or retaliation on another TK
-Favored role-allows you to select pilots that fit your need

2. IF YOU SHOOT YOUR BUDDY IN THE BACK, YOU FIX IT. I like this suggestion and it seems simple and fair enough. You don't break your friends toy and not help him replace it. Common courtesy.

This helps alleviate those of us who worry about the jerks, and helps settle guys like Red Beard who don't want over-regulation, as well as helps prevent new pilots from being kicked around and not be poorly rated for being new. Thoughts? Critiques? More suggestions?

Edit: Also if your ratings dip below a certain level you can be evaluated by moderators who can determine if further action is needed.
Edit II: This also allows for us to put out our own contracts, for instance an assassination, because there is a certain tolerable level of that in the universe if the community wishes this as an option
Edit III: if we like this we can put it in the Suggestion forum. I'm sure they are already planning their own solutions, but the developers are listening so it won't hurt to throw out our own ideas now

Edited by Hawkeye 72, 17 March 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[Killian Axe]

Friendly fire has to stay in the game ... it is simply part of warfare ... I cannot count how many times I have had to avoid firing on a target because splash damage would destroy one of my teammates ... or i have had to manuever into a position where my line of sight did not cross the rear torso of a teammate ... deal with it people.

Mechwarrior Killian
6th Jaguar Dragoons

[Dras Black]

Darkrasp, on 17 March 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Haha.. True. But at least getting griefed there doesn't cost you anything (except time). Also, I don't have a better option. At this point I'm going to shrug and leave it up to the professionals. I think that in ranked games, you'll need some way to filter out or vote out poor-rep players prior to match start, but how exactly to best accomplish that, I don't know.

Sounds a lot like the Dossier pre-game style lobby that i suggested a wile ago
The way i figure it is you can start searching as a team (12 or less) if you have a team of 12, boom done. less then 12, you get to hire mercs/other house members that are looking for games you get prompts on 10 files that you can sort threw see their Rep/DKR/Sightings Etc.

Edit:
@Hawkeye 72: Yes, That. lol

@Killian Axe: I don't think anyones saying "Turn it off"

Edited by Dras Black, 17 March 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

Darkrasp, on 17 March 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Haha.. True. But at least getting griefed there doesn't cost you anything (except time). Also, I don't have a better option. At this point I'm going to shrug and leave it up to the professionals. I think that in ranked games, you'll need some way to filter out or vote out poor-rep players prior to match start, but how exactly to best accomplish that, I don't know.

track how much dmg they do to friendlies and how many friends theyve killed, and rate them based on dmg/killing of these. dont allow decay of these stats, but dont flag someone for low numbers because accidents happen. (griefers wont stop at a handfull of pk's, but noobs will learn to stop doing it or go broke)

[Sug]

I'm a fan of how MW4 handled friendly fire. The first couple shots are free but if you keep it up you become a hostile target. Former lancemates should be worth no points to keep people from abusing the system.

[Volthorne]

Red Beard, on 17 March 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Post of the Week. Did anyone pay attention to the second paragraph? No teamkill governing mechanics. Just let the players regulate themselves. That's why the US is having so much trouble now, over-regulation. Don't let the Obamites destroy this game too! No regulations other than the players!

Are. You. F***ing. Kidding me. This is the MOST RETARDED THING I HAVE EVER HEARD. You realize that America has it's head shoved so far it it's a$$ while sailing up poop-creek BECAUSE of ZERO regulations? Don't even start on Obama, he's doing the best he can to save the whole damned world by saving America from itself and it's bullshit non-regulations. Don't even bother responding to this, the evidence is irrefutable.

ON TOPIC: I agree with the "you-break-it, you-buy-it" system everyone seems to gravitating towards. A++ to everyone for thinking smarter, not harder (and bonus marks for those who understand the reference). It could be tweaked slightly to accommodate for newer players, where a script runs a check for X amount of games played (should be somewhere around +50~ to classify non-newbies) and X amount of FF dealt (very low), the player being hit with TK/FF can waive some of the cost that would normally be forced on the TK'er/FF'er to lift some of the burden, but still teach newbies that shooting indescriminately is a bad idea.

[Hawkeye 72]

Volthorne, on 17 March 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

Are. You. F***ing. Kidding me. This is the MOST RETARDED THING I HAVE EVER HEARD. You realize that America has it's head shoved so far it it's a$$ while sailing up poop-creek BECAUSE of ZERO regulations? Don't even start on Obama, he's doing the best he can to save the whole damned world by saving America from itself and it's bullshit non-regulations. Don't even bother responding to this, the evidence is irrefutable.

Remember only you can prevent forum fires! Lets keep this friendly and productive people

[Volthorne]

Sorry, I had to correct that little I mean massive f***ing dose bit of f***waddery. I tend to do that when people are so off the mark, they're not even in the galaxy of "reasonable expectations". I'll try to keep things positive from now on.

Edited by Volthorne, 17 March 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[Dras Black]

Hawkeye 72, on 17 March 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Remember only you can prevent forum fires! Lets keep this friendly and productive people

Yes, Lets try to stay civil.

[Insidious Johnson]

Red Beard, on 17 March 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

This whole thread is ridiculous. The idea that the devs should have to puts measures in place to restrict people from playing a certain way is just awful. People should able to do whatever they want in the game! What the hell is this? Video game Marxism? Communism for the BT world? First, TK's are not as common as you make them out to be. Second, good team players are those that simply overcome and persevere no matter what!

Bounties?!
C-Bill penalties?!
IN-GAME POLICE?!

If I get a PM telling me that I am being banned for not playing as a team member, I will rip the game off of my hard drive and never play anything from PGI again.

Fortunately, I don't think anything remotely like these God awful suggestions is coming and I think this thread is a joke.

No, what this is ... this is a collection of bored forum trolls, baited breathless TT fan boiz and twitchy button mashers. Afaik, not one player has EVER been killed in MWO since its inevitable release on Heavy D-Day just a score of days before Octobrenavidadgiving really kicks in. Why don't we wait until we have an actual crime commited before we determine the correct overreaction if we don't have a plan anyways. Other than that, I'm sure they'll knock it out of the park. Option two, is that it could suck balls. If the ship starts sinking,we all know the first one they'll throw to the trolls is Paul. So, that is a WIN WIN!

It is the entertainment for months planned out in advance either way. Now you see the wisdom of their edgy new business model where "the customer is always agitated but thinks PGI is waay cooler". Eventually the sum focus of all angst among the base will need a target, why not observe the natural ones. Feed the trolls!

[Jenin]

I'd like the ability to forgive another for tk'ing me if it's a situation where I knowingly put myself in that position. I love a good bunt sacrifice every now and then.