334 replies to this topic

[Hawkeye 72]

Roh, on 17 March 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

This is easy to address. You pay for any damage you do to a friendly mech. You pay for the repairs. If you do enough damage that it seems excessive you begin to pay for the repairs and a penalty. At some point the intentional tkers wont be able to afford to field their mech.

This also covers those ****** that aren't trying to tk you but are selfish douchebags that won't check their fire.

I like this idea. It's a good way of settling any grievances a player has about any accidental fire and it discourages the jerks. As for the bounty system someone already mentioned how that could be abused.

Also try to think about other ways the game could be abused and counter-measures to it. I can already see how the information aspect of the game could be sabotaged given other various means of communication. Imagine a lone wolf gets in with a regiment, but decides to feed someone on the other team info in exchange for payment? To improve upon the pilot record/reputation, maybe a list of prior contracts and associates could be added so you know if there is a chance you just signed on a Liao favored merc before a big fight against them.

[DrHat]

neodym, on 17 March 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

if there will be friendly fire I will not play the game,easy as that,when played Bad Company 2 on hardcore mode on average I suffered more damage from retarded or trolling team mates,I had more than enough please dont put friendly fire in this game

friendly fire will be like opening portal to hell,it will unleash these cretins all over the place and ruin gameplay,please dont give these idiots power to destroy this wonderfull game


and about player rating system,I can see being with low rating being called Assault ***** and camper, being put to same rating value as team killer and thats not fair

Not a very constructive way to express yourself..let me show you why:

-- Begin Example --

If Friendly Fire is turned off (like you want it to be), I won't play the game, easy as that. When playing Bad Company 2 on hardcore mode (which I actually did 95% of the time playing that game) I had the best tactical and engaging combat experience one could have in that game without all the nonsense "no-FF" and the fancy HUD's and counters for your ammo etc etc.

Not having Friendly Fire will be like opening a portal to hell. It will unleash this surfacey, uninteresting, unchallenging and dumbed down gameplay that will ruin everything. Please don't give this notion any power to destroy this wonderful game.

-- End Example --

See how easy that was? Not to mention, saying "If you do this, I won't play!" is a threat and its arrogant and doesn't go over well with most people.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying your bad experiences aren't real nor am I saying that they weren't as bloodragingly infuriating as you describe. I believe you..But we have to approach this in a more constructive manner

[Verminaard]

I'd also like to see complaints against people actually matter. There are many times in League of legends and other games where i have seen griefers who tk or such. They never had negative results from this.. other than lossing the games they griefed. I hope a reporting system will be valued and used to ban players before they recieve 200+ reports within a 24hr period or something... Its annoying seeing a griefer continually grief game after game before being banned or penalized if they ever do get a slap on the wrist.

The Saint/sinner system mixxed with reporting would be great imo, and maybe a mandatory repair for FF damages?

This gives us knowledge who to trust, faith that that FF damage won't come out of your pocket and a report system that may actually BAN those Tkers before the month is up.

Edit** I'd also like to see IP bans, and not accounts, preventing simple troll accounts and remaking accounts to continue griefing.

Edited by Verminaard, 17 March 2012 - 05:50 PM.

[mockingfox]

Verminaard, on 17 March 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

The gold/black rep bar seems like a great idea, even if it's in addition to other stuff. it lets you know which teammates are reliable and which maybe less so. I'd love to see it regardless if it is, or isn't, the main griefing defense.

this one is popular, but it should be coupled with effective MM as i said weighting the MM so that greifers get put with greifers instead of with good people. The only way out of this would to not greif, and since i stated before that a match with a greifer should not effect your score-card, you could slowly build your reputation back up while not suffering a painfull and forever lasting mark on your K/D forcing you to remake an account (some people do this, and I loath them for it)

punishment, with a long path to redemption.

also their should be a full record of your misdoings for merc groups to veiw and evaluate.

[Ragotag]

Roh, on 17 March 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

This is easy to address. You pay for any damage you do to a friendly mech. You pay for the repairs. If you do enough damage that it seems excessive you begin to pay for the repairs and a penalty. At some point the intentional tkers wont be able to afford to field their mech.

This also covers those ****** that aren't trying to tk you but are selfish douchebags that won't check their fire.

Some people are assuming at this point that an IFF system to prevent friendly fire from happening intentionally will not make release. Wait and see...

But, if we were to assume that no such system arrives with the release, then I think this idea would work because it would be unbiased between unintentional and intentional FF; you pay for the damages you do. However, I would take it just one step further: if you *kill* or cripple a friendly, you should also loose faction loyalty points, and if you reach a negative loyalty point total, you get bounced from the faction and have to go grief/TK elsewhere.

[Dras Black]

I like this "RepBar" idea, (wish i had thought of it) the way I can see this happing is Pre-Drop dossiers to select you're team, (or mercs if you don't have a group together or you're group is too small to fill out space) maybe a player set bio, with the Gold/Red bar on the side. A lot like a military record, maybe a few Notable matches you've played, KDR, Spotted/Lazed/Reported Average mechs per match. Get REAL stats going so that you're commander knows who hes getting for you're lance/team.

Then again this is just head-canon and thats assuming that the command class actually matters (not trying to start **** with the command riders out there) but its not a title you have to earn.

Edited by Dras Black, 17 March 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[wwiiogre]

The Cheese has a great idea, leave friendly fire on, but have computer auto tag the bill for repairs to the player that caused the damage. Mistake, on purpose, doesn't matter. Friendly fire gets repaired first from your account before you can repair your own mech. To me this is fair, suck it up if you hit your own team. With a cbill cost always taken out immediately and you can't repair your own mech until that is paid for completely. Think Fine with court ordered bank account frozen and drained before any payments made to the offending player. With the Dev's allowing the player who cannot afford to fix his mech to play in a damaged mode. This would mean griefers would have to play in broken mechs until the fixed any damage they caused. Is this harsh for new players, yep, is it fair? Absolutely!

Chris

[Red Beard]

This whole thread is ridiculous. The idea that the devs should have to puts measures in place to restrict people from playing a certain way is just awful. People should able to do whatever they want in the game! What the hell is this? Video game Marxism? Communism for the BT world? First, TK's are not as common as you make them out to be. Second, good team players are those that simply overcome and persevere no matter what!

Bounties?!
C-Bill penalties?!
IN-GAME POLICE?!

If I get a PM telling me that I am being banned for not playing as a team member, I will rip the game off of my hard drive and never play anything from PGI again.

Fortunately, I don't think anything remotely like these God awful suggestions is coming and I think this thread is a joke.

Edited by Red Beard, 17 March 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[wwiiogre]

If that TK'er or friendly fire player does not have enough money and has more than one mech, begin by selling off his largest mech until all damage bills are paid for. Have this in writing and every player has to check and admit they know the system is in play and will abide by this rule for as long as they play. EULA's if written right can be a good thing.

Some say the discipline on this ship is on the harsh side of strict! This is lieutenant Crisp in charge of discipline. This is Mister Moon in charge of discipline. This is mister prostitute in charge of (voice from crew snickers) discipline. Nail that man's foot to the deck. (James Mason in Yellowbeard as the Captain) with lots of the Python's, and so many other stars the movie is the best comic pirate movie ever done.

chris

[palebear]

I don't think it's about restricting a certain gameplay style, it's about incentivising playstyles that are enjoyable to other players, in my opinion.

[wwiiogre]

So your stand Red Beard is: I didn't pay for this game, I got it for free so I can ruin every other person's fun cause I want to? Sorry, I for one know team killers and griefers are so common in pub games even in pay to play games that I stopped playing BF3 even on admin run servers. Why? cause they would figure a way out to ruin the game or throw the game. No matter what. Team killing is off, so I just drive into you at full speed and right before I hit, I eject. So the physics of the game killed you. I didn't I just got out. Or, I sit in a narrow spot and block all of the team to get to a certain part of the map before the other team. Or I have teamspeak on and I am talking to the enemy and spotting for them and keeping certain parts of the map or specific vehicles/etc available for the enemy to steal. Or I pilot a vehicle to the enemy base and suicide so the enemy can take it. I havn't even warmed up yet, that is just some of the things I saw on BF3 in the last game I played. It was worse than that. Admin didn't stop it, EA doesn't care. So I stopped playing BF3. I was a long time Tribes (yes the original) until griefers ruined that game. At 47 I have been around since the first massive multiplayer games came out. If anything griefing has become a profession for some players. Including whole entire teams of griefers.

the point of this topic, and I think it is important is to come up with a way to keep the game play fun and focused on what the Dev's and most of us want it to be. If you want to grief go some where else. The game will not cost you money to buy or to play. So don't go away angry, just go away.

chris

[Fecal]

Halo has the best team-killing prevention system that I've seen.

If you are killed by a teammate, the game gives you a pop-up saying "Player *** has killed you. Do you forgive them?"

In the case of Halo, not forgiving killed them (if I remember correctly). In MWO perhaps being unforgiven could shut down your mech and only let the commander reboot you if they see fit.

Any unforgiven TK's should also go on your permanent record and flag you to moderators if you exceed a certain number in a day/week. One nice thing about FTP titles is that everyone is tracked by their credit card # so once you're banned it's not so easy to get back on.

Edit: Just to voice my opinion - there should DEFINITELY be FF enabled. The game would not be nearly as interesting without it. Perhaps certain servers can have more lax rules than others, but MW without FF is wonky.

Edited by Fecal, 17 March 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Hawkeye 72]

Red Beard, on 17 March 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

This whole thread is ridiculous. The idea that the devs should have to puts measures in place to restrict people from playing a certain way is just awful. People should able to do whatever they want in the game! What the hell is this? Video game Marxism? Communism for the BT world? First, TK's are not as common as you make them out to be. Second, good team players are those that simply overcome and persevere no matter what!

Bounties?!
C-Bill penalties?!
IN-GAME POLICE?!

If I get a PM telling me that I am being banned for not playing as a team member, I will rip the game off of my hard drive and never play anything from PGI again.

Fortunately, I don't think anything remotely like these God awful suggestions is coming and I think this thread is a joke.

What gaming universe do you come from? I guarantee 90% of the people on this forum encounter problems with people in games online. You can't have anarchy or you end up with a failed product. Good team players are those that overcome? I hope we play so I can pump a few PPC's in your back. Let's see you overcome that.

^^^Now wouldn't it be great if I could be penalized for such a ****** move? If you don't think so I will gladly demonstrate how negative an experience you will have after just a few games

[Red Beard]

Yeah sure, incentivising. That's another way of putting it.

Any time you lay down any kind of "penalties" for certain types of gameplay like that, it drives potential, cash paying players out the door. You can't have players getting into situations where they build up negative balances just for playing the way they did. Even if a player chooses to behave maliciously, you cannot penalize them.

Besides, good players don't need any backup systems like this. REAL players can work around things like this, instead of whining about them.

[wwiiogre]

I would especially love Friendly Fire on, why? With my above way to solve it. It happens in the chaos of combat. The Dev's are not gonna allow your mech to be totally destroyed. So the results of griefing or accidentally damaging teammates is not as severe as it could be. Since the game is designed as a team play from beginning. It only makes sense that you pay for damaging teammates. Besides, if anything it will teach fire discipline cause if there is a penalty and a pilot knows that, they will attempt to not damage their own experience and game play on purpose. I for one, would not even blink if my alpha strike cost me all my money for a match cause an ***** lone wolf stepped into my line of fire. But I plan on playing with my own Merc Company and hopefully we will be men about this and work it out. In other words, the penalty could be waived by the person who got damaged if he admitted to PGI that it was his own fault for walking into the strike. How many would be honest about that? Probably not many, I hope to find a group who would. I would be honest if it was my own fault. The nice thing is it is just damage not a death. I would be more upset because it may have cost us a battle that would harm the rep of our unit or the bottom line of a contract.

chris

[Red Beard]

Hawkeye 72, on 17 March 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

What gaming universe do you come from? I guarantee 90% of the people on this forum encounter problems with people in games online. You can't have anarchy or you end up with a failed product. Good team players are those that overcome? I hope we play so I can pump a few PPC's in your back. Let's see you overcome that.

^^^Now wouldn't it be great if I could be penalized for such a ****** move? If you don't think so I will gladly demonstrate how negative an experience you will have after just a few games

It's an easy fix. You just stop playing with that dillhole.

[wwiiogre]

Redbeard,

I will have to agree to disagree with you. If penalties are in game and you knew about it before you started. Then the only problem would be yours for damaging your teammates. Now if you kept it up and couldn't pull your collective head out of your collective arse. Then It is nobody's problem but your own. You can choose to keep playing in that style all you want. I wouldn't care. The point being if you want to play in a negative way in a game that is designed to be about team vs team with every single thing the Dev's have been doing to instill a teamwork format of game play. Then I think negative non team play should be discouraged and punished. Hockey has a sin bin, sports have penalties. Combat in real life is so unforgiving that most idiots only get one mistake and they are gone. The problem is this isn't real combat and we do not get the option of ending a miscreants career or just stepping back and not supporting them and letting them get plastered over and over. Yep a community could do things like that, but why should we have to. Some of us would like a way to weed out griefers and team killers before it ruins our entertainment.

So go play modern warfare 3 or BF3. and leave the big boy games for the adults.

chris

[Red Beard]

wwiiogre, on 17 March 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

the penalty could be waived by the person who got damaged if he admitted to PGI that it was his own fault for walking into the strike

Good God, today's gamers are turning into little puds.

[wwiiogre]

So would that be a personal insult to me? Since you know nothing about me, I assume you are using a generalization. Which means you have a hard time working out deep and thought provoking concepts when trying to debate a topic and must resort to name calling. The moment a person name calls or insults during a debate, they have already admitted they have no ability to win the debate on facts, on skill or style.

chris

[Hawkeye 72]

Red Beard, on 17 March 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Good God, today's gamers are turning into little puds.

No todays gamers have been shot in the back too many times by 12 year olds with a sailors mouth. Its unenjoyable when you meet one once every game.

On topic, FF could pose interesting/problematic scenarios where a player is hired by a group to sabotage a critical battle or pull off an 'assassination'. If a mission has incentive to win, then there exists incentive to bend the rules.

Also, suppose I call up pilot A and offer him 100000 C-bills to feed me information about his teammates position in a match whose outcome has some weight in the universe? If such deals are possible, would any of you guys be in favor of keeping such a system? Suppose one of my teammates alerts pilot A1 of the plot during the match. I'm pretty sure A1 will very much be in favor of shooting player A.

Food for thought.