23 replies to this topic

[CW Grayson]

I didn't find a topic yet for this, so i must ask this.
In MW3, evading an incoming LRM bunch was do-able even with a 90 ton Mech. Back in good-ol-times we had an assault-mech-player who mastered this.
In MW4 however, the LRM can make a 180 degree turn and hit you, that's just dumb.

Don't take this as a downgrade to lrm's. The angle and speed of the shooting mech, speed of the target mech and angle of the target mech must go in calc.
What i want to say is, you can avoid a volley of lrm's in an assault mech, but it needs skill, hope you understand me.

[Helmer]

It's unknown at this time.

You can see LRMs in action in the videos posted in the media section on this site. http://mwomercs.com/media/videos/
Watching the videos it appears they launch , arc upwards, twist and "swarm" around each other, and come back on target.

Knowing PGIs dedication to being a Sim, I doubt we see missles turning 180 Degrees

I'm curious as well if a fast moving 'mech might be able to avoid getting hit, but it remains to be seen.

Great question.


Welcome to the forums.

Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 20 March 2012 - 03:45 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

LRMs in MW3 were great fun you need skill for shooting as well as for evading lrms. In MW4 it was hardly possible to evade lrms even with jump jets. I think in MW2 you did need jumpjets to avoid lrms but you didn't got hit in the back after avoiding the first salvo. Thing that happened always in MW4.

[2bad]

The only thing I see "against" avoiding LRMs in an assault mech is that LRMs are a weapon that are naturaly boated. Like the Catapult.

If avoiding LRMs becomes a viable strategy, even in an assault mech, at long range, I think the catapult will lose popularity.

I would like to see LRM to be avoidable at shorter range (to make them as a sort of minimal range to mirror the TT)

[00dlez]

I would like it to be possible to avoid some of a salvo through some good piloting, quick use of cover etc.. I don't think many pilots should be able to pull off a reliable maneuver, especially during a tense fire fight or, as 2bad said above, LRMs would simply be a wasted weapon and the mechs that rely on them become useless.

[CoffiNail]

MWLL has this. A skilled player using speed, the right angles and/or jump jets can avoid LRMs fairly decently. But it is a skill one needs to pick up and it does not always work.

[T0RC4ED]

I assume the LRMs will have a more realistic tracking system then they did in MW4. I wasn't able to pick anything out from the video that says anything for sure though.

[Karl Streiger]

I ever have problems in using LRMs as "basic" artillery weapon - but maybe LRMs could become better artillery weapons instead of direct fire weapons.

Why I were able to outrun them in MW3 when the lrms was used in a low angle pattern; i had hardly a chance when it was used in a high angle pattern - hitting torso and head of my mech

Edited by Karl Streiger, 20 March 2012 - 05:06 AM.

[00dlez]

Karl Streiger, on 20 March 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

I ever have problems in using LRMs as "basic" artillery weapon - but maybe LRMs could become better artillery weapons instead of direct fire weapons.

Why I were able to outrun them in MW3 when the lrms was used in a low angle pattern; i had hardly a chance when it was used in a high angle pattern - hitting torso and head of my mech

I can't recall where (likely a Dev Blog or Q&A) but I believe it was either stated or seriously implied that LRM locks, if fired at a high artillery angle, could go over hills/obstilces etc, with proper use of scout/LRM mechs and teamwork of course.

But if all it takes is a quick throttle maneuver or hitting the jump jets to avoid a missle lock... that's no good in my book.

Possible? Yes
Difficult skill to master and even then unreliable? Yes.

[Havoc2]

Avoidable in a light or nimble medium, but no way should LRMs be "avoidable" in anything larger. They should however splatter damage all over the place, and if too many are fired at once possible that some miss IMO.

I.e. if you alpha strike 2 LRM 20s, that's 40 missiles in the air trying to find the same spot on the target but not collide with each other, as opposed to chain firing those 2 LRM 20s, the 20 missiles in the salvo are not trying to all occupy the same space and hit the same target allowing them to cluster more tightly and be more accurate.


And in MW2, the missiles could miss, but then they would swarm around your 'Mech until they eventually disappeared.

[Hayashi]

In MW2 Mercs it was possible to outrun Arrow IV missiles with a Firemoth. I recall doing that on a certain recon and get the hell out of there mission very often.

[Soviet Alex]

Watch the in-game trailer again. At one point the mech we are riding in fires missiles at a Jenner running across in front of him & MISSES! I think it was the SRMs on the Atlas. My inner Jenner pilot loved that.

So it seems that a fast-moving target may be able to evade missiles at close range. Long-range LRM barrages against slower targets look pretty effective from the trailer.

Edited by Soviet Alex, 20 March 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[Helmer]

Soviet Alex, on 20 March 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Watch the in-game trailer again. At one point the mech we are riding in fires missiles at a Jenner running across in front of him & MISSES! I think it was the SRMs on the Atlas. My inner Jenner pilot loved that.

So it seems that a fast-moving target may be able to evade missiles at close range. Long-range LRM barrages against slower targets look pretty effective from the trailer.

Are you talking about right after the Atlas pilot shoots his teammate in the back with Med Lasers? If so, the Atlas pilot hit with something, the Damage Status readout of the Jenner lights up indicating a hit.

[Soviet Alex]

Helmer, on 20 March 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Are you talking about right after the Atlas pilot shoots his teammate in the back with Med Lasers? If so, the Atlas pilot hit with something, the Damage Status readout of the Jenner lights up indicating a hit.

Oh yeah. Oops!

[El Loco]

As long as LRMs don't show as ludicrous physics as in MW4 I'm happy with about anything

It is unlikely, that every single missile of a salvo hits the target, if said target manages to change its position fast and noticeably so that the change in position is greater than the reaction time and mobility of the missiles. Missiles are incapable of instantaneous turns after all...

[Soviet Alex]

In one of the interviews or blogs, I remember picking up that LRMs are "semi-guided". You lock them on & fire, and they'll head to the target area. Some will hit, some won't. I suspect that the "how many missiles hit" variable already in the game factors in target size & speed. With the high arcs seen in the trailer & being told numerous times that scouts can spot for LRM-boats, I'd say we already have our wish-list. I'm just left wondering about Narc, Artemis, & variant warhead types.

[IceSerpent]

CW Grayson, on 20 March 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

In MW4 however, the LRM can make a 180 degree turn and hit you, that's just dumb.

It was also doable in MW4, just in a different fashion - you needed to either move behind cover or crouch behind a small hill. It was also sometimes possible to evade most of the missiles by turning around, but less reliably.

[Soviet Alex]

IceSerpent, on 21 March 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

It was also doable in MW4, just in a different fashion - you needed to either move behind cover or crouch behind a small hill. It was also sometimes possible to evade most of the missiles by turning around, but less reliably.

That worked in MW3 too. There just weren't many places where you could do it.

[Dark Fox]

Anyone know if Swarm LRMs are going to be in MWO and how they will function?

Mech Commander 2 Has them but MW4 doesn't seem to.

Mech Commander 2 they don't seek the target, the hit the ground where the target was at the time fired. However they had splash damage, and the damage was outrageously high (at least in enemy hands lol). If I saw a Swarm LRM carrier I'd have to sit there for minutes and plan out how I was going to deal with it. Because if I got hit by just one, it would likely severely damage a leg of my mech. If they all hit, may as well say goodbye to that mech. The way to deal with it was to rush in, shoot, then just ran as fast as you can away. If you got hit, load game. It was awful, what was worse is my guys couldn't seem to use them half as effectively.

But I could see them being an interesting weapon if applied properly and most likely nerfed.

[Exilyth]

Mhh... I wonder if modelling missle behaviour as boids would be a good idea.
It would make the missles keep a certain distance to each other, but enhanced boids with goal seeking behaviour would be bad for the framerates.

Dark Fox, on 21 March 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Anyone know if Swarm LRMs are going to be in MWO and how they will function?

Mech Commander 2 Has them but MW4 doesn't seem to.

Mech Commander 2 they don't seek the target, the hit the ground where the target was at the time fired. However they had splash damage, and the damage was outrageously high (at least in enemy hands lol). If I saw a Swarm LRM carrier I'd have to sit there for minutes and plan out how I was going to deal with it. Because if I got hit by just one, it would likely severely damage a leg of my mech. If they all hit, may as well say goodbye to that mech. The way to deal with it was to rush in, shoot, then just ran as fast as you can away. If you got hit, load game. It was awful, what was worse is my guys couldn't seem to use them half as effectively.

But I could see them being an interesting weapon if applied properly and most likely nerfed.

The 'secret' to using Swarm LRMs in MC2 is luring an enemy, then forcing fire onto a spot in it's path so it will run into the salvo.
You can avoid enemy swarm LRMs by moving in irregular patterns, e.g. zig zagging, instead of moving in straight lines, since the AI basically does the same (fire at where you're going to be).

Swarm-LRM in MWO would be interesting indeed, I'd really like to know what the devs would do to keep them different from rocket launchers & MRM.

By the way, we already had a topic about Thunder-LRMs, so I won't mentio... oops, I just did: http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Edited by Exilyth, 21 March 2012 - 03:26 PM.