224 replies to this topic

[Calon Farstar]

ZnSeventeen, on 21 March 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Okay, so far haven't all big guns been torso mounted? Unless I am gravely mistaken it will be pretty easy for a light to avoid a torso mounted anything. Going up on a small hill should make it practically impossible, and jumping will make it temporarily impossible I would think. Unless Hunchbacks are able to limbo. So, yeah, if I get one shotted in a light by an AC/20, I will take it as a learning exercise, and try to never be directly in front of a big torso, within 300 meters.

Just dont bee in the firing arc....if you do....maybe light mechs are not for you!

[RedHairDave]

but thats only if they get close, if they stay at 5-600 meters, it should be really ahrd to hit them

[Smellfungus]

Accuracy and your ability to shoot on the move will be a factor I'm sure. Yes the head has the least amount of armour, but it's a small target often difficult to hit from any direction but the front. Pilots are more likely to wreck a mech before the head unit fails.

Legs of course are a better target, but range is an issue for the AC20... you're better to choose a PPC or LRM, but the LRMs don't track hit locations according to the original table game and a PPC has a slow refire rate with high heat generation (so you best make every shot count). FASA is in charge of this project, I'm sure it's going to be fine.

[Garth Erlam]

We find that headshots are tough enough people generally go for other areas first - IE. if in a very dire situation people try to 'fluke' a faster head kill. It can be very coin toss, especially with smaller 'Mechs. Headshotting a moving Jenner is next to impossible (and when done makes you feel like the biggest badass ever.)

[T0RC4ED]

Zypher, on 20 March 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Who knows what will happen once it is released, but those of you who think it's a lights pilots fault that they are hit by something like an AC20 are being ridiculous.

I pretty sure the point is light mechs probably need to stay out of range of the AC20s.

On another note, the AC20s dont seem to be as devastating as they were in MW4. I could be wrong, but this could be for ballance reasons =)

[T0RC4ED]

Garth Erlam, on 21 March 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

We find that headshots are tough enough people generally go for other areas first - IE. if in a very dire situation people try to 'fluke' a faster head kill. It can be very coin toss, especially with smaller 'Mechs. Headshotting a moving Jenner is next to impossible (and when done makes you feel like the biggest badass ever.)

Try using a Logitech M570 its epic (trackball). Once mastered anyone can be a headshot machine =)

Edited by T0RC4ED, 21 March 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[Garth Erlam]

Trying headshotting with the Logitech M570 on something going 118 KM/H while you're going the same speed, while you're both turning, at 100 metres.

[T0RC4ED]

Garth Erlam, on 21 March 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Trying headshotting with the Logitech M570 on something going 118 KM/H while you're going the same speed, while you're both turning, at 100 metres.

weeeeeeeee ummm...ummm.../barf.... I think im going to need maintenance to clean the chunks out of my cockpit.

[Seabear]

You are moving, they are moving, weapons won't be pinpoint accuarate, mech jocks won't be pinpoint accurate - head shots will be more luck than planned. Luck is a major factor in combat. If one keeps moving the chance of even a lucky one shot kill fades greatly. If you stop moving in the open and in range and arc of one of the mech-killer weapons (and that's what they are designed for!), you deserve your fate. The big boys are designed to stop smaller mechs fast and contest the field with other heavy metal. Take that ability away from them and all they have are disadvantages. Every mech has a designed role. If one takes that role and capabilitiy away, one negates the usefulness of that mech on the battlefield. The risk of virtual death and destruction is one of the driving forces of a game like this. In my opinion, if one does not want to accept that, one should not play a competetive game. Too many people seem to be complaining because someone on the other side might have an a chance to hinder their destruction of enemy forces.

[diana]

Well, if a light mech stays in front of my heavy mech, then it's his fault that he blew up in one salvo. Also, for those who say that this isn't FPS; it is an FPS and its proud to be, no need to invent a subgenre just because a lot of people will think of tacticool games like CoD first when they read FPS game.

[VF5SS]

Prosperity Park, on 21 March 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Imagine attacking an Atlas Mech by repeatedly shooting it in the left hand with small lasers, and nowhere else on the body... just small lasers to the left hand... and instead of watching the hand or the arm fall off, you watch the entire Mech fall over and explode.

Have you ever played a Mechwarrior game? Because that's exactly what happens when a Mech gets shot in the toe and entire leg loses hit points. It's the exact reason why there have been about ten threads about legging. Sure it isn't technically the same thing, but if terms of effective tactics focusing all damage onto one crippling weak point is the exact same result. Also AC games try to emphasize mobility as an effective defense, which is odd since the table top game is all about positioning and not so much about mouse looking over a leg and shooting it.

Mechwarrior games have never been true simulations, more action games like Wing Commander with the same inclination towards way too many buttons that do that same thing. Even the Playstation port of Mechwarrior 2 is nearly as functional as its PC counterpart, just re-balanced for quicker gameplay. All the controls are still there and work fine even in a pre-analog stick era.

Quote

I want the real thing, done right, using the exsisting rules as it's base, as it should be.... or I am not playing Battletech/Mechwarrior.

I don't believe the two are one in the same. All of my Battletech books show robots with more mobility than a slower version of Twisted Metal. Mechwarrior games, while a novelty in their time, do not appear to reflect the spirit of Battletech. They're more about following the letter of the law without considering its implications. Even the basic board game setup claims a hex is roughly 30 meters across and a Mech exists comfortably within it. I feel like until we got the first Mechwarrior game, one could imagine them doing more than jogging in straight lines from hex to hex while firing weapons. Do you recall the opening to Mechwarrior 2 in where a Thor holds one arm straight out to kill a Mad Cat? Or when it casually stepped behind a rock formation while turning to fire one armed at the same Mad Cat? I'm not asking them to do jujitsu, but I'm honestly asking when did Battlemechs suddenly develop arthritis?

[Cybermech]

I'm sure 1 shots will not completley take you out.
ofc the ac20 can get taken out prity easy 2.

[J0anna]

Diana, on 21 March 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Well, if a light mech stays in front of my heavy mech, then it's his fault that he blew up in one salvo. Also, for those who say that this isn't FPS; it is an FPS and its proud to be, no need to invent a subgenre just because a lot of people will think of tacticool games like CoD first when they read FPS game.

That isn't quite the same thing, though the effect might be the same. Firing all weapons at once is known as an alpha strike. An alpha strike from a heavy or assault mech is something to fear, especially in a lighter mech. A scout mech that blunders into an alpha strike from an Awesome should be lucky to survive, instant death in that situation is (in TT) very likely. The opposite isn't true, an alpha strike from a scout mech, should not bother an assault or heavy mech (unless it's from behind).

What most are talking about here is the ability on a single weapon to kill a mech (any mech) with a single hit. A single gauss hit to the head will kill any mech in TT. Same as a single AC/20, LBx/20, clan large laser, Clan ER PPC (IS PPC, need a little luck w/their criticals, but can pull this off), and (very, very unlikely) some missile launchers. This is counter balanced by the fact that head hits are pretty rare (unless you're stupid enough to stand in water). In MW games, this has always been far more likely since you can aim your shots, and certain mechs always seemed to have bigger 'head' targets. In any case, this works both ways, while a single AC/20 hit from an Atlas (even though it's not a high damage mech) can kill a Hunchback, while a single AC/20 hit from a Hunchback can also kill an Atlas (and I suspect this shot is a bit easier, since assault mechs don't dodge damage well). I suspect this is the one most people will complain about, the fact that their assault mech was taken down in one hit.

In the end, I think one shot kills should be in, while rare, it's something that you'll remember for a very long time when you pull it off.

[Cochise]

I think most people will realize as soon as they strap in that this is more of a sim than an arcade kind of thing so that means strategy and tactics are involved vs run straight to the target and open fire. Especially if you are in a light mech, you have to use your speed and nimbleness to your advantage, if you don't your dead. Classic asymmetric warfare.

Asymmetric warfare is “leveraging inferior tactical or operational strength against the vulnerabilities of a superior opponent to achieve disproportionate effect with the aim of undermining the opponent’s will in order to achieve the asymmetric actor’s strategic objectives.”

Edited by Cochise, 21 March 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Steel Talon]

AC/20 is going to suffer from bullet drop, so hitting light on 100+ meters would be tought, especially if u got to hit cockpit or back torso
LBx/20 ehm... light mech that enters its effective range deserves to die fast!!!

[John Wolf]

Garth Erlam, on 21 March 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Trying headshotting with the Logitech M570 on something going 118 KM/H while you're going the same speed, while you're both turning, at 100 metres.

MW's version of the Circle of Equals.

[Brigand]

Calon Farstar, on 21 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

I thought I addressed that....slow town the torso twist spee on larger chasis.

I thought, you told about arms reticle. According to 'Mech warfare we have two separate reticles now - for arms and torso. As I understand, arms reticle will move at speed, that user defines through mouse sensetivity option. So choosing 'Mech with heavy arms' weapon loadout could become a tweak, that'll help to aim faster (within the arc, limited by cockpit view)

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"As I understand, arms reticle will move at speed, that user defines through mouse sensetivity option. So choosing 'Mech with heavy arms' weapon loadout could become a tweak, that'll help to aim faster"

@Brigand

Would you post the "quote" you got that idea from please. I may have missed it in the Dev Blog you mentioned. There was talk of a "Free Look" ability but it didn't mention any relation to Mouse and Reticule controls. Thanks

[Stone Profit]

Brigand, on 22 March 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

I thought, you told about arms reticle. According to 'Mech warfare we have two separate reticles now - for arms and torso. As I understand, arms reticle will move at speed, that user defines through mouse sensetivity option. So choosing 'Mech with heavy arms' weapon loadout could become a tweak, that'll help to aim faster (within the arc, limited by cockpit view)

Then I shall be blowing the arms of said mech with glee

[RedHairDave]

ups and downs to all configurations, its a good thing