224 replies to this topic

[Max Grayson]

Garth Erlam, on 20 March 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

I'm not sure you can one-shot kill here. We've had devastating alphas, but I've never seen a full-health, i dunno, Jenner say, taken down in a single salvo.

Thank you for the response to the OP.

Is the answer the same if 4 mech teammates shoot at the same target at the same time? As i understand it the plan at launch is to have a 16v16 matches (or some such number), so in theory a properly disciplinced team thats focus fires at a single mech theoritically should knock the snot out of said mech.

Edited by Max Grayson, 26 March 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Hades Serpent]

The number is 12v12, and I do recall mention that if need be, they might reduce that to 8v8 or there-abouts. Keeping so many players in-sync isn't as easy as it sounds.

Also, try to remember that anti-cheating technology has come a fair ways in terms of sophistication. People will cheat, yes, but many will eventually be caught, either by code that automatically runs in everyone's game looking for suspicious changes (too technical to actually get into specifics here), and/or by players who alert the dev team about another player they suspect is cheating. If devs get reports like that, they can use tools (assuming they've built them into the game) to watch that player like a hawk, which might even go as far as watching a live feed of them playing. Once a player is caught cheating by the devs, they'll get the banhammer, and the devs have a lot more power to ban. They can ban not just the account name or email, but also that person's financial details if they bought anything.

As for the OP...

Well, they're going to happen. Super-skilled players will be out there, but I get the feeling that the devs are trying to make it very hard for a heavy or assault to one-shot kill anyone with a modicum of piloting skill. Torso turn rates will be tweaked, head armour values will be modded, and all will be well, eventually.

One has to remember that while the devs obviously love the lore and history behind the franchise, they've got to turn a profit somehow. That means they need to strike a balance between appeasing the masses and staying true to the franchise. From what I've seen so far, I'd say they're up to the task.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Max Grayson, on 26 March 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Thank you for the response to the OP.

Is the answer the same if 4 mech teammates shoot at the same target at the same time? As i understand it the plan at launch is to have a 16v16 matches (or some such number), so in theory a properly disciplinced team thats focus fires at a single mech theoritically should knock the snot out of said mech.

Yup. That's what I call a "Joint-Team-Alpha-One-Shot-Kill"

I fully endorse this strategy, and if you do not, then go watch some shows about lions and predatory dogs on the Animal Planet for a while.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 26 March 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[Garth Erlam]

Max Grayson, on 26 March 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Thank you for the response to the OP. Is the answer the same if 4 mech teammates shoot at the same target at the same time? As i understand it the plan at launch is to have a 16v16 matches (or some such number), so in theory a properly disciplinced team thats focus fires at a single mech theoritically should knock the snot out of said mech.

Basically, no. Though we've yet to see a lot of 4 v 1's because people tend to at least stay in pairs. We had a pair of Jenners absolutely run roughshod over two Catapults and an Atlas. Focus-fire is tougher than it sounds, even sitting next to someone on your team - It's not a four on four where each Lance stands in the middle of a field.

On the 'legging' debate - you can technically try to leg; however it's equally viable to 'headshot' or 'core' (literally burn through the Centre Torso). Also Legging really only works on slow 'Mechs, as hitting a Jenner is hard enough - legging one is almost entirely down to luck.

[Max Grayson]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Focus-fire is tougher than it sounds, even sitting next to someone on your team - It's not a four on four where each Lance stands in the middle of a field.

Thank you for such a quick response. I understand you all are trying to ensure that the terrain makes it difficult for a toe to toe slugfest and to incorporate a purpose for smaller mechs. I hope you succeed.

My only thoughts about this, after a few years of gaming, is to never underestimate some gamer's ablility to abuse the crap out of certain game mechanics

thanks again for the response

Edited by Max Grayson, 26 March 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[Max Grayson]

Hades Serpent, on 26 March 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

The number is 12v12, and I do recall mention that if need be, they might reduce that to 8v8 or there-abouts. Keeping so many players in-sync isn't as easy as it sounds.

Oh contraire mon frere ! there are plenty of guilds and clans out there that run 24v24, 15v15 and 12v12 on many games. These elite clans/guilds in such games as WoT and Pirates of the Burning Seas (potbs) can change the face of the entire game.

as i anticipate some kind of end game RvR in this game there will be large clans/guilds not only working like well oiled machines, they will at times work together against the rest of the player base.

and to the other thing mentioned in your post:

I expect that the mechanics and server set up very to be similar to the games mentioned that hacking/cheats/mods will be pretty much impossible since i am guessing all the aim and shot registering will be on the server side and not the client side

Hades-I am not trying to flame and I hope the tone of the post reflects that. My whole point is that many of the people that are posting on these forums are used to running there own pvp mech servers, fighting against NPC's and such, but i have a feeling this game will be compeletly different and bring a whole new type of player base then what many of these old mech warrior players are used to

[Solis Obscuri]

Max Grayson, on 26 March 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

never underestimate some gamer's ablility to abuse the crap out of certain game mechanics

Ain't that the truth!

[Lorcan Lladd]

You can get one full coordinated fire lance to work; any more than that, and you're just asking for trouble...
...There's just way too many variables to consider.
I wouldn't risk it.

[Max Grayson]

Lorcan Lladd, on 26 March 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

You can get one full coordinated fire lance to work; any more than that, and you're just asking for trouble...
...There's just way too many variables to consider.
I wouldn't risk it.

I will just say this about that; whether its a lance vs lance, company vs company or battalion vs battalion, whatever the size that people can group together at, there will be that many people all on the same teamspeak or ventrillo, all working together and coordinating shots, movements, strategy.....and doing it well

Hear me now, believe me later

Edited by Max Grayson, 26 March 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[Fanno Schifo]

If it can happen in the Mechwarrior universe, it's fine for me.
That's why i wanna play this game and not one of the gazillion others around.

[zorak ramone]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

On the 'legging' debate - you can technically try to leg; however it's equally viable to 'headshot' or 'core' (literally burn through the Centre Torso). Also Legging really only works on slow 'Mechs, as hitting a Jenner is hard enough - legging one is almost entirely down to luck.

Can you say anything now about how easy it is (or isn't) to head-shoot mechs?

For example, in MW4, the actual "head" hitbox on the atlas was only its left eye. The skull was counted as part of the CT. Is it like this in MWO, or is there some other kind of head-shooting mechanic.

[MTEckstein]

[color=#222222]I think I would be surprised if a light mech, like the Jenner could survive a solid center mass hit from an AC-20. I would think that the role of the light mech would involve staying out of situations where it could take such a hit, either by remaining out of range and scouting, or by using terrain and other obstacles to remain out of the line of fire of longer range weapons. [/color]

[Lorcan Lladd]

Max Grayson, on 26 March 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

I will just say this about that; whether its a lance vs lance, company vs company or battalion vs battalion, whatever the size that people can group together at, there will be that many people all on the same teamspeak or ventrillo, all working together and coordinating shots, movements, strategy.....and doing it well

Hear me now, believe me later

The question is not whether you can disable a single enemy 'Mech or not, but rather whether you can keep that up against a whole, organized company.
I think you're oversimplifying things - there's much more to 'Mech battles than just gunnery.

You've got to consider everything ranging from enemy and allied movement to weapons convergence delay as well as weapon lock-on time and firing rates when planning an offensive manuever like the one you're proposing; if you dedicate all 'Mechs to a fire role, you're spread out way too thin on defense and information to keep your strike going on for long.

It can only work as long as the enemy is willing to work in your favor - the moment they find good cover and a way to return fire, or, hell, if your lance is just standing in one place, even call in artillery on your positions, they'll force you to break up and give chase, or just take it until you're disabled.

They've taken initiative from you, either way, and are dictating where the battle will continue, to their favor.

It's just not going to work against an enemy which is even remotely organized.
Or moving.

[Garth Erlam]

zorak ramone, on 26 March 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Can you say anything now about how easy it is (or isn't) to head-shoot mechs?

For example, in MW4, the actual "head" hitbox on the atlas was only its left eye. The skull was counted as part of the CT. Is it like this in MWO, or is there some other kind of head-shooting mechanic.

It's a fairly large object (in the case of the Atlas it's, uh, the head) but due to movement, turning, bouncing about, actually landing repeated hits is tough. If you're thinking of AC/20ing the head, it's a lot harder than it might seem. Thomas is the main sniper - he tends to go either Hunchback or Swayback and just target the head. Seems like 50% of the time he headshots someone in his Swayback he manages to overheat and kill himself, hahaha.

Also, yes organized groups will do well against non-organized groups. Again though, having a whole lance fire on one person is mostly unavoidable, but it's also pretty rare. Four 'Mechs standing that close are just asking for LRM's to annihilate them.

[Hades Serpent]

Whereas on Mad Cats it's pretty much the whole face. >.< I love the Mad Cat, but the big-arse torso sections stick-out like a sore thumb. Torso twist can only do so much.

Max Grayson, on 26 March 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Hades-I am not trying to flame and I hope the tone of the post reflects that. My whole point is that many of the people that are posting on these forums are used to running there own pvp mech servers, fighting against NPC's and such, but i have a feeling this game will be compeletly different and bring a whole new type of player base then what many of these old mech warrior players are used to

Lol. It's all good. I didn't think you were flaming. Flaming would be more like "You're wrong! GTFO N00B!!!" Gah...I hate players like that. Had one on ME3 multi that was yelling over the mic "You're all n00bs! I beat the game on insanity! I'm better than all of you!" ... We were all level 70+, and he was level 1. We kicked him. I digress...

You made good points. I for one do hope to see big arse battles sometime in MW:O's future, but I'll be happy if they go small for now to get the foundation right.

As for teamspeak...gods. I really wish there were a way to prevent people from using that. Think of the in-game possibilities! Intercepting radio chatter, jamming the enemy's comms...It could be marvelous!

[renegade mitchell]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

It's a fairly large object (in the case of the Atlas it's, uh, the head) but due to movement, turning, bouncing about, actually landing repeated hits is tough. If you're thinking of AC/20ing the head, it's a lot harder than it might seem. Thomas is the main sniper - he tends to go either Hunchback or Swayback and just target the head. Seems like 50% of the time he headshots someone in his Swayback he manages to overheat and kill himself, hahaha.

Also, yes organized groups will do well against non-organized groups. Again though, having a whole lance fire on one person is mostly unavoidable, but it's also pretty rare. Four 'Mechs standing that close are just asking for LRM's to annihilate them.

One lance firing on one mech is mostly unavoidable, and pretty rare? I know this game will be different from past MW games, but I have to disagree on this. Seasoned teams from past MW games, though a learning curve early on, will adapt, and have no problem after, lance killing a mech. Seasoned teams do it, whether it is one mech and his wingman, or a lance.

[Max Grayson]

Garth Erlam, on 26 March 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Also, yes organized groups will do well against non-organized groups. Again though, having a whole lance fire on one person is mostly unavoidable, but it's also pretty rare. Four 'Mechs standing that close are just asking for LRM's to annihilate them.

Who says they are standing close to each other ? I sir am at a disadvantage as I have not seen either the map or terrian you speak of, and am not foolish enough to debate not only something I have no knowledge of, let alone the lead designer of a video game that I wish to fall in luv with !

If you wish to alpha test your connection in the midwest though I would gladdly offer my services free of charge and write a full report and overview, and perhaps show how (based on the map size and terrian) what i discuss could be done

In all seriousness though if there are choke points or natural funnels in the maps and depending on size of the map it would be possible to cooridnate a cross fire

Thanks again for the respones

[sirjackinthebox]

one shot kills yeah it could happen.
I mean a good solid hit to the already hard to hit sweet spot on the heads of all mechs, there are crits as in ammo dump hits that could litteraly destroy a mech from the inside out, small mechs are fast and with a skilled pilot can avoid such precicion hits, i dont see it happening offten, the same with hevier mechs yeah they will move slow and the sweet spot possibly easier to hit but with a skilled pilot will know to not let this spot become exposed


i dont think a mech with both legs out should be out of the game, i think yeah fall and be all aquard as far as aim or spot targets best you can from the ground but to count as a kill one should be finished off or eject if one feels the need, the whole point in having a humanoid mech with posable arms and torso twisting is to have the mobility of a human (with mechanical limitations) I think it was "Mechwarrior 4 Vengence" that allowed shooting from the fallin possition...

[Steel Talon]

Will we be able to see through the mech hit by HGauss?

[Garth Erlam]

I'm curious how you're all firing on the same 'Mech, while not being near eachother