1258 replies to this topic

[Max OConnor]

Jaroth Winson, on 15 February 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

ROFLMAO

Firstly, the Clans were the Clans BEFORE OmniMechs & Elementals. Do some research. Secondly, Clan Wolf won on Tukayyid. We had the same tech as the other Clans so it was not the tech that made the difference, it was our ability to adapt to the situation. Do some research.

1. Yea, you were the Clans beore OmniMechs and Elementals, you cut your teeth on people who were bombed back to the stone age using agromechs and equipment that was barely functioning while you came in with cutting edge Star Leage or better mechs.
Keep digging there sparky, you are really looking like the big bad warriors alright.......

2. you had to have an inner sphere adviser *Phelan Kell* to teach you how to fight on Tukayyid, along with Natasha Kerensky who also learned how to fight from us as well. So yet again, I'm waiting for proof that man for man Clan warriors are the best.

Take away your fancy toys and you lose every time. Its no wonder your Scientist caste tried to rule you guys, they are real reason for why you have won in the past anyway.

[Maurice]

got go with Clan Wolf

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

OverWatch 101, on 15 February 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Question: clan snow raven is not included because no one likes it (but me) or because of timeline problems?

Thanks in advance people!

In 3050, Clan Snow Raven isn't one of the invading clans!

[Jaroth Corbett]

OverWatch 101, on 15 February 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Question: clan snow raven is not included because no one likes it (but me) or because of timeline problems?

Thanks in advance people!

They were not an invading clan.

maxoconnor, on 15 February 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

1. Yea, you were the Clans beore OmniMechs and Elementals, you cut your teeth on people who were bombed back to the stone age using agromechs and equipment that was barely functioning while you came in with cutting edge Star Leage or better mechs.

Keep digging there sparky, you are really looking like the big bad warriors alright.......

No no no, you better get back to digging & read Operation Klondike. It was no cake walk & while some opposition were just as you say using agromechs etc. there were others on ALL five planets that put up great resistance & had a fully outfitted military. If you want I can post the pages for you. Try that nonsense on someone who has not read the books.

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2. you had to have an inner sphere adviser *Phelan Kell* to teach you how to fight on Tukayyid, along with Natasha Kerensky who also learned how to fight from us as well. So yet again, I'm waiting for proof that man for man Clan warriors are the best.

Natasha Keresnky WAS from the Clans. What is your point? The fact that she was able to learn how to fight you means she did her job. As for Phelan that is war my friend, you capture a local & get intel you need. Problem that we did such a good job? Boo hoo. Also technically Phelan was a direct descendant of a SLDF member, which is why he was able to rise so far & was entitled to a Bloodname.

As for your proof:

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Placing his palms flat on the desk, Wolf leaned forward. "Now the two of us will become your instructors. Some of you have already seen battle, but even with that, the total sum of experience of those seated at this table would not equal what the average Clan warrior goes through in his training.

Yeah. I think I will leave it there.

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Take away your fancy toys and you lose every time. Its no wonder your Scientist caste tried to rule you guys, they are real reason for why you have won in the past anyway.

Then show me where, with the exception of Twycross, IS forces decimated Clan garrison units who use second-line mechs. Scientists tried to rule? That might be one or two clans but it is definitely the exception & not the rule. Again try it on someone who does not read the lore.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 15 February 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[guardian wolf]

Thank you for dealing with this surat Jaroth, was about to, then saw your posts, and I do believe that you forgot that the the reason that the Clans mostly lost on Tukayid, was because the fact that the Crusaders, in all their arrogance, did not adapt their tactics against the Sphere at all, mostly, and for all intents and purposes, doomed themselves from the start.

[Max OConnor]

I'm sorry, I must have missed where the clans WON?
When did you guys conquer Terra?...................
Oh wait, YOU DIDN'T cause you LOST, period end of sentence.

You got your collective butts handed to you and no amount of book quoting or individual battles won wins you the war.
Now look at you, sitting there on Arc Royal having to hide behind an Inner Sphere unit to keep you safe from your brother wolves.
Or if you are part of the original wolves, you are abjured from the rest of your clans.

The only thing that allows the clans to win is their tech and fighting with rules. Natasha Kerensky learned that and she adapted which makes her the exception, not the rule. The warriors who have adapted the best have been spat upon by the rest of the clans. Look at Adain Pryde or Ulric Kerensky. Rare individuals indeed but certainly not typical of most clanners.

Also you got your butts handed to you AGAIN on your home turf, and if I remember right, your Khan got his clock cleaned by a Capellan in a mech 20 tons lighter than the Timber Wolf he was running. Thats after he defeated the Falcon Guards all by himself a few years before.

On Wolcott, the Jaguars met their first true defeat when Hohiro Kurita tricked the Jaguars into attacking at a place and time of his choosing. As a result, the Combine captured several OmniMechs and two dozen suits of Elemental armor.

Front line units defeated, not even second line.

On 12 April, 3060, a month after the fall of Huntress, Victor Steiner-Davion led the remaining reborn SLDF into the Strana Mechty system. Granted safe passage, Prince Victor's forces landed near the Hall of Khans. A delegation of Prince Victor, Precentor Martial and other SLDF officers met with ilKhan Lincoln Osis to call a Trial of Refusal against the invasion of the Inner Sphere. ilKhan Osis agreed to the proposal, however the Ghost Bears were not pleased and claimed the Trial was exclusively against the Crusader philosophy and their invasion. Naming themselves a Warden Clan, they refused to take part in the Trial. The other Warden Clans followed suit, and the Crusader Clans, including the last of the Smoke Jaguars, were left to fight the trial on their own. Clan Nova Cat took the side of the Inner Sphere on behalf of the newly recreated SLDF. On 23 April, 3060 the SLDF and Crusader Clans clashed in a series of skirmishes culminating in the death of ilKhan Osis at the hands of Prince Victor. ^[1] Though the warriors representing the Jade Falcons and Star Adders were able to defeat their Inner Sphere opponents, the remaining Crusader Clans were soundly beaten and by the terms of the Trial the Clan Invasion ended. The new Star League was able to create an embassy on Strana Mechty. Prince Victor addressed the Grand Council following the trial, but his hopeful speech fell on deaf ears. *Thats cause they were too busy trying to pick up their collective chins off the floor from being whooped*

The clans believe in Might makes Right, so using that philosophy, they lost.

Edited by maxoconnor, 15 February 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

guardian wolf, on 15 February 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Thank you for dealing with this surat Jaroth, was about to, then saw your posts, and I do believe that you forgot that the the reason that the Clans mostly lost on Tukayid, was because the fact that the Crusaders, in all their arrogance, did not adapt their tactics against the Sphere at all, mostly, and for all intents and purposes, doomed themselves from the start.

Your welcome. Actually I did mention that in the earlier post. Look up.

maxoconnor, on 15 February 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm sorry, I must have missed where the clans WON?

When did you guys conquer Terra?...................

Oh wait, YOU DIDN'T cause you LOST, period end of sentence.

You got your collective butts handed to you and no amount of book quoting or individual battles won wins you the war.

Love how you cannot refute my points & moved on to another subject. Pwned!

Actually my quoting battles does prove my point. The ONLY Clan to adapt their tactics WON. Logic cannot be argued with. The rest of the Clans refused to heed Ulric's warnings & THAT is why we lost. Even Focht said so:

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Focht turned on him. "Your people got off lightly? Are you not the ilKhan? Do you not lead all the
Clans?"

The ilKhan slowly shook his head. "As this battle would prematurely decide the end of our quest, our crusade, it was determined that control of the individual operations would fall to the Clan Khans. Though I was permitted to review all data coming up from the planet, I was not obliged to distribute it unless asked. As no one saw fit to request my thoughts, I was free to act to the benefit of my Clan."

So, they forced you to act on your own and you let them twist in the wind. "Had you led them,coordinated them, you would have defeated me."

Lost Destiny Pg.171

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The only thing that allows the clans to win is their tech and fighting with rules. Natasha Kerensky learned that and she adapted which makes her the exception, not the rule. The warriors who have adapted the best have been spat upon by the rest of the clans. Look at Adain Pryde or Ulric Kerensky. Rare individuals indeed but certainly not typical of most clanners.

Guy you need to read more, those rules are what make us lose most of the time, even Victor realized that:

Quote

The deathly stillness pressed in on him, then he shook his head. The only advantage we ever had in fighting the Clans was that they always played by a rigid set of rules that gave us a tactical edge. If they ever come to embrace the
flexibility that Phelan and the others showed here, Ragnar won't be the only Prince of the Inner Sphere sporting a
bondcord.

Natural Selection Pg. 35

Also Aidan Pryde is hailed as a hero, had his unit nicknamed after him, got himself lines in the Rememberance & not only was his DNA added to the active gene pool, it was done so without the usual waiting period.

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Also you got your butts handed to you AGAIN on your home turf, and if I remember right, your Khan got his clock cleaned by a Capellan in a mech 20 tons lighter than the Timber Wolf he was running. Thats after he defeated the Falcon Guards all by himself a few years before.

I do not deny the skills of Kai Allard-Liao, however Twycross was an aberration.

Quote

On Wolcott, the Jaguars met their first true defeat when Hohiro Kurita tricked the Jaguars into attacking at a place and time of his choosing. As a result, the Combine captured several OmniMechs and two dozen suits of Elemental armor.

Quote

The clans believe in Might makes Right, so using that philosophy, they lost.

If we fought as savagely as you without a care for civilians or infrastructure & fight each engagement with all the troops at our disposal, it would be different as Victor rightly pointed out.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 15 February 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[CoffiNail]

I do believe Ghost Bear has won fairly well. We have Free Rasaulhage Republic, We have a good sized chunk of Draconis Combine. We have established with our Inner Sphere cousins. Why? We treat the lower caste well, they are part of the family and the whole. We have taken our advancements in mining and other advantages we had in the Homeworlds, but now have a nice home in the Inner Sphere. We now wait until until the Inner Sphere needs our assistance, otherwise we are developing a rather nice Dominion, quiaff?

[Aaron DeChavilier]

<reads basic knowledge of the clan invasion era>
<raises hand>
uhm, Mr Winson, says here the clans were halted. First on Luthien, then Tukkayyid, then Strana mechty itself; how does this qualify as clan warriors being better if they couldn't stave off defeat in the very invasion they launched? They had everything going for them - tech, training, excellent officer corps; what happened?

what qualifies as a defeat in your book? failure to achieve objectives laid out at the start of the campaign? an operational defeat? strategic? tactical?

both sides can quote junk all they want, but at the end of the day, canon dictates the clan lost thus proving who was the better fighting force.

fyi, you try and argue against this point? that means you're arguing against the very canon you follow - good luck with your 'logic' and 'pwning'

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 15 February 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[Max OConnor]

Did the clans win or lose the battles for Tukayyid and the Great Refusal?

LOST,
end of discussion.
Quote whatever else you like but you did NOT win.
If you were the best you would have won, but you didn't.
Thank you for your participation.

[Max OConnor]

Quote

On Wolcott, the Jaguars met their first true defeat when Hohiro Kurita tricked the Jaguars into attacking at a place and time of his choosing. As a result, the Combine captured several OmniMechs and two dozen suits of Elemental armor.

I believe that just makes the clans DUMB then. *snicker*

[Jaroth Corbett]

maxoconnor, on 15 February 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Did the clans win or lose the battles for Tukayyid and the Great Refusal?

LOST,
end of discussion.
Quote whatever else you like but you did NOT win.
If you were the best you would have won, but you didn't.
Thank you for your participation.

Clan Wolf WON.

Thank you for your time.

maxoconnor, on 15 February 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Quote

On Wolcott, the Jaguars met their first true defeat when Hohiro Kurita tricked the Jaguars into attacking at a place and time of his choosing. As a result, the Combine captured several OmniMechs and two dozen suits of Elemental armor.

I believe that just makes the clans DUMB then. *snicker*

Your point was toe to toe, fighting it out, the IS pilots were better. Trickery was not what discussed which is why I highlighted it. Maybe you should follow your own points in your own thread. *snicker*

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 15 February 2012 - 02:22 PM.

[Max OConnor]

Jaroth Winson, on 15 February 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

Clan Wolf WON.

Thank you for your time.

Oh well then invite me over to your house on Terra,..................
You ARE on Terra right? Cause that was the prize, you MUST have the prize seeing as how you won and all.............
*snicker*

[Max OConnor]

Can we get some coffee for my friend here waiter.................

no he's ok, just had way too much to drink apparently.
Keeps going on about how Clan Wolf won the inner sphere and all that..........

No don't worry, I have the keys to his mech, he is obviously in no condition to pilot it.

[Stormwolf]

maxoconnor, on 15 February 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Oh well then invite me over to your house on Terra,..................
You ARE on Terra right? Cause that was the prize, you MUST have the prize seeing as how you won and all.............
*snicker*

Clan Wolf was trying to stop the invasion, mission succeeded.

You wacky spheroids do not understand that Clan Wolf has been protecting you since 3000 when the Crusaders were already aiming for a invasion. We later halted the invasion after we could not prevent it.

[Graefin Zeppelin]

Clan night pony, always lurking in the dark an no one knows us.

Edited by Graefin Zeppelin, 15 February 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[Max OConnor]

I'm gonna see if they have a spare room for you guys at the hotel where the great leader Max Liao was retired to.
I hear the rooms are especially soft and padded.

This reminds me of a funny part in Kung Pow enter the fist:

[Chosen One kicks Wimp-Lo in the face. Wimp-Lo does a pose]
Wimp Lo: Ha! Face to foot style, how do you like it?
Chosen One: I'm sure on some planet your style is impressive, but your weak link is: this is Earth.

[Xavier Truscott]

I wonder how well Clan Wolf would have done if Comstar hadn't been providing them with information (which they didn't provide to the other invading clans initially) on their battles. I don't recall any part of the lore where Clan Wolf was trying to stop the invasion as they were an active participant and made the greatest gains initially with help from Comstar. As i recall they were initially a Crusader Clan, and later adopted Warden views.

Edit: They were a warden clan and later on there was a Crusader Division of Wolf, my apologies.

Edited by Xavier Truscott, 15 February 2012 - 03:26 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

CoffiNail, on 15 February 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

I do believe Ghost Bear has won fairly well. We have Free Rasaulhage Republic, We have a good sized chunk of Draconis Combine. We have established with our Inner Sphere cousins. Why? We treat the lower caste well, they are part of the family and the whole. We have taken our advancements in mining and other advantages we had in the Homeworlds, but now have a nice home in the Inner Sphere. We now wait until until the Inner Sphere needs our assistance, otherwise we are developing a rather nice Dominion, quiaff?

That's because the Bears came to their senses and made the best of the situation after their initial Crusader mindset.

[guardian wolf]

@Xavier

Hey, maybe you should remember the part where Clan Wolf fought so that way we could stall the invasion, and yet, we lost. And so as punishment, we were set as one of the first to invade the Sphere, so we did the next best thing, we denied them as many planets as possible. This was to protect you from what they would have done to your people and planets. Under our control, nothing changed on your worlds, except that the nobility had to go back to work, and that most of you were treated better than what you were before under the other leadership. My internet sucks right now, so I'll finish this tomorrow