575 replies to this topic

[Suskis]

PsyberKnight, on 02 April 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Really depends on how you run it. The Highlander is very capiable as a sniper with the load out it can take and faster move combined with the JJs make for relocating to another sniper vantage much easier. For a brawler build I agree with you, XL bad.... but as a sniper the weight you gain from an XL just means more ammo for sniping

actually, in real game, the Highlander is one of the best brawler ever, being able (as the fluff text says even in technical readout) to bury a light mech in the ground with a single death from above attack. sadly, it seems we're really far away from having melee attacks, at least for now.

[Randis]

I have been a tabletop Battletech player for many years. So I am surprised to find that this hero mech has the same jump capability as a light mech. On tabletop jump distance is limited by base movement speed. The Highlander gets to move 3 hexes when it jumps. In comparison the Spider gets 8, the updated Trebuchet 5, the Catapult 4. A standard hex is supposed to be about 30m wide, and Battletech Technical Readouts have used this scale in describing a mech like the Highlander as having a 90m jump capacity, and Trebuchets as having 150m.
Looking in the Mechlab I find that a Catapult is listed as having 24 metres maximum jump distance, the Spider 47m, the Trebuchet 28.. and "Heavy Metal" also gets 28. This is despite a maximum speed being much the same as the base Highlander in tabletop (which has a 270 Std rated engine). The developers seem to have roughly translated each point of tabletop jumping into 5.5 to 6m jumping distance.
In tabletop terms, "Heavy Metal" gets a Walk/Run/Jump move of 3/5/5. The standard Highlander gets 3/5/3, or about 18 metres jump distance maximum.
The tabletop game _does_ include Improved Jump Jets, which weigh twice as much and take double the space as standard jets per movement point. However IJJ don't get invented until well after the Clan invasion, in 3069. Instead of 3 Jump MP for 6 tons and 3 critical spaces, a Highlander could have 5 Jump MP for 20 (!) tons and 10 critical spaces. (I generally don't find them a good design option except for relatively slow light mechs. Almost all mechs will get better performance by increasing their bases speed and mounting standard jets. IJJ in an assault is criminal)
Now, PGI could have a good reason for increasing the jump distance for Heavy Metal, being a hero mech and all. It might also help explain why it mounts an XL engine, but only seems to have a single extra heat sink and one more medium laser than a base Highlander for the weight savings. The nerd in me is a bit annoyed that they've broken their own adaptation of the tabletop rules, though. I acknowledge that jumping in MWO isn't as useful as on the tabletop game, and an 18 metre jump capacity might not be that useful, but assault mechs are _supposed_ to be lumbering and slow. The main value of jump jets on assault mechs is to enable short hops over difficult terrain features that would take forever to walk around, or to let you quickly spin around if a light mech is trying to get behind you (and which I find a useful tactic in my 3D Cataphract). I think that any adaptations should be at least internally consistent.
I'll be interested to see what they have planned for the base Highlander. It might be that what makes Heavy Metal special is the increased jumping movement, as well as the revised placement of energy weapons in the left arm, which I do like. Still, I don't think I'll be buying Heavy Metal, as I really don't like the looks... those speakers look silly.

[C E Dwyer]

Garth Erlam, on 17 October 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

(To be clear, I am aware the Scottish do not actually talk like this. It is a charicature meant to make a more 'larger than life' and interesting character.)

Actually some of them do sound like Chief Engineer Scott, but not many

[Featherwood]

I find Highlander model ('Heavy Metal' hero-mech) a very weak 3D-designers' job, the concept art is much more menacing and brutal. I feel it's a problem of micro-proportions, something is just wrong with 3D model.

Hey, PGI, are there any ways to persuade you to rework the in-game model of a Highlander Mech?

Edited by Featherwood, 03 April 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[Pando]

Featherwood, on 03 April 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I find Highlander model ('Heavy Metal' hero-mech) a very weak 3D-designers' job, the concept art is much more menacing and brutal. I feel it's a problem of micro-proportions, something is just wrong with 3D model.

Hey, PGI, are there any ways to persuade you to rework the in-game model of a Highlander Mech?

When drawing, artists take "liberties." When creating something viable for the in-game, those liberties are changed to realistically what works.

Highly improbable to change the model at this point. It's been through 6-8 months of development and has cost them between $60,000 and $80,000.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Vincent Lynch, on 31 March 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Not entirely true. The Highlander starts with a smaller engine than the Atlas, but at exactly the same speed. So it will also have the same top speed as the Atlas (speed with the largest engine it can carry). But since that top speed engine will be smaller than the Atlas' 360 top engine, especially when still using a standard engine, the Highlander will be able to carry almost as many weapons as the Atlas. (More even actually, if you remove the Jump Jets.)
I did the math on that already.

How odd. I could've sworn the Highlanders 270 gave them a top speed of 54 for some reason, guess I had a rare moment of dyslexia perhaps. I found out today with the acquisition of my HM that this was untrue. Still. I love this thing a hundred times more than my DDC.

As for those who find the XL engine to be abhorrent, I find that it rarely gets me killed: the Highlanderr CT seems about as barn-door-wide as the CT on the Awesome does, so it gets the same benefits as an AWS does without the drawbacks of an XL in, say, an Atlas or a Stalker. I have a 330 in mine and could not be happier.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 03 April 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Vincent Lynch]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 03 April 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

How odd. I could've sworn the Highlanders 270 gave them a top speed of 54 for some reason, guess I had a rare moment of dyslexia perhaps. I found out today with the acquisition of my HM that this was untrue. Still. I love this thing a hundred times more than my DDC.

As for those who find the XL engine to be abhorrent, I find that it rarely gets me killed: the Highlanderr CT seems about as barn-door-wide as the CT on the Awesome does, so it gets the same benefits as an AWS does without the drawbacks of an XL in, say, an Atlas or a Stalker. I have a 330 in mine and could not be happier.

The 54 kph stem from TT where the max running speed of every Mech walking 3 hexes per round had to be rounded up to 5 hexes. Since every hex in TT is 30 meters and a round is said to last 10 seconds, this makes the speed rounded up from 13.5 meters per second to 15 meters per second, which is, from 48.6 kph to 54 kph. But here in MWO it's just 48.6 kph because there's no reason to round it up to "full hexes per round".

[Vincent Lynch]

Randis, on 03 April 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

Now, PGI could have a good reason for increasing the jump distance for Heavy Metal, being a hero mech and all. It might also help explain why it mounts an XL engine, but only seems to have a single extra heat sink and one more medium laser than a base Highlander for the weight savings. The nerd in me is a bit annoyed that they've broken their own adaptation of the tabletop rules, though.

The first mech which broke it was that one Spider which is able to mount 12 Jump Jets, and that one is not a HeroMech.

[Exinferis]

I like the highlander so far, but there are some little things with the modell.
The joints from leg to "hip" and the shoulderjoints don't realy fit. Killed or from certain angles, you see, that the rest of the modell seems to "float" between legs and arms. They seem to be a little loose connected and that is disturbing.
I hope it will get a little rework on that. It would be sad if a mech like this will have such flaws....

[Adridos]

Featherwood, on 03 April 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I find Highlander model ('Heavy Metal' hero-mech) a very weak 3D-designers' job, the concept art is much more menacing and brutal. I feel it's a problem of micro-proportions, something is just wrong with 3D model.

Hey, PGI, are there any ways to persuade you to rework the in-game model of a Highlander Mech?

It's just the problem with Heavy Metal.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Vincent Lynch, on 04 April 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

The 54 kph stem from TT where the max running speed of every Mech walking 3 hexes per round had to be rounded up to 5 hexes. Since every hex in TT is 30 meters and a round is said to last 10 seconds, this makes the speed rounded up from 13.5 meters per second to 15 meters per second, which is, from 48.6 kph to 54 kph. But here in MWO it's just 48.6 kph because there's no reason to round it up to "full hexes per round".

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation. Glad to have that oddity cleared up then.

[Davila Sombre]

Bought this "rose misunderstanding" yesterday... and i dissapointed totally. To be honest, PGI, you did a weakest assault to compare with others. Highlander weaker than some heavies. It's TOTALLY sucks if i goes toe to toe with Stalker or even Atlas. Add MORE weapon slots: 2 or more energy slots and more structures to its right and left hands!!! I CANNOT hold AC20! WTF?! Tiny Raven able to mount this,, and 90 tonns bruiser, can lift only a gauss or pair of AC5 autocannons! What a waste of moneys! Since this, I'm gonna thinking twice, before i pay more moneys for future "hero" fails.
P.S. no offence PGI, just fix this mech.

[Reno Blade]

Davila, the AC20 will probably be on one of the known variants.
This HeavyMetal is a Hero mech with a distinct "special" loadout that should not be the "best" of all.
Please wait for the other variants to come out before complaining.

Also XL vs Endosteel seems pretty equal in this weight class. If you get 4.5 tons from Endo, or save 5 tons by changing 270 (15.5t) to 300XL (15.5t)

[Vite Ramen]

I really hope the AC20 variant makes it in. I want to make an assault brawler with JJ's.

The current hardpoints of the Heavy Metal make me hesitant to buy it, since it doesn't seem to make an optimal brawler.

Edited by Llyranor, 05 April 2013 - 09:28 AM.

[Qayos]

this is the Assault I've been waiting for

[Radien Leonard]

It has a fairly good loadout for 90 tons. Heres what i have ac10-/-3xlarge laser-/-srm4,srm6+artemis, 2xsrm ammo, 2x ac10 ammo / / 300std / endo steal reduced leg armor - 100% full no slots remaining. ammo in legs.

Anyone who thinks it doesnt compet, think hard about the 3xlasers that can hit anything fairly easly, its about 50% of your damage if not more. When facing an enemy face your right arm into them as your left is obsurdly op. He has a feel for something between an atlas and a awsome with an exposed CT. Your legs often take a beating too, so dont neglect them.

oh and 16 double heat sinks , she runs hot so you must watch those overheats, until the other varients come out you cannot get "Fast Fire" so deal with it. I'v played 121 rounds w this mech. and hold a 1.31 ratio. She is very slow btw

Remove those jump jets. Unless its obviously your play style, it was fun but its 10 tons and requires an xl. That loadout was, gaussrifle/srm6x2+artemis/med laserx2/lrglaserx1.

Good hunting and i support this game paying for MC.

Edited by Radien Leonard, 05 April 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Antagonist]

IMO this mech is one of the few that can reliably pull off an XL engine. I have yet to be cored through a side torso while my CT still has armor left.

Regarding JJ, they do come in handy once in a while. I wouldn't be opposed to linking the maximum amount of JJ that you can install with your mech's top speed.

Right now I'm saving up for exchanging my reactor for a bigger one, courtesy of endo steel.

[Drehl]

Adridos, on 04 April 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

It's just the problem with Heavy Metal.

o.O .. are the other models already in the gamefiles?
Loooks indeed much more like the concept art. Can you show us the other variants too?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Davila Sombre, on 05 April 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Bought this "rose misunderstanding" yesterday... and i dissapointed totally. To be honest, PGI, you did a weakest assault to compare with others. Highlander weaker than some heavies. It's TOTALLY sucks if i goes toe to toe with Stalker or even Atlas. Add MORE weapon slots: 2 or more energy slots and more structures to its right and left hands!!! I CANNOT hold AC20! WTF?! Tiny Raven able to mount this,, and 90 tonns bruiser, can lift only a gauss or pair of AC5 autocannons! What a waste of moneys! Since this, I'm gonna thinking twice, before i pay more moneys for future "hero" fails.
P.S. no offence PGI, just fix this mech.

Totally wrong. I have yet to go one-on-one with an Altas and lose in this mech. I think the issue is your not building it right and/or so fixated on the AC/20 that your not giving other viable builds a chance. Also the mech in lore was built around mounting the Gauss Rifle, which by most is considered a better weapon than the AC/20 so no surprises from me that it cannot mount one. Also why would you want to anyway. Mounting a AC/20 in the arm means giving up the Lower Arm Accuator which in turn locks your firing arc to having only elevation and depression. Not sure why anyone would want to give up the main advantage of having arms just to mount a short range, heavy, high heat weapon.

[Biruke]

Viktor Drake, on 11 April 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

Totally wrong. I have yet to go one-on-one with an Altas and lose in this mech. I think the issue is your not building it right and/or so fixated on the AC/20 that your not giving other viable builds a chance. Also the mech in lore was built around mounting the Gauss Rifle, which by most is considered a better weapon than the AC/20 so no surprises from me that it cannot mount one. Also why would you want to anyway. Mounting a AC/20 in the arm means giving up the Lower Arm Accuator which in turn locks your firing arc to having only elevation and depression. Not sure why anyone would want to give up the main advantage of having arms just to mount a short range, heavy, high heat weapon.

Agreed I like the hardpoints. And facing an Atlas is pretty easy. I need only two alphas (3 ll + 1 gauss, both in hands and very flexible) into his right torso to make it half useless. What is usually left after that in worst case (for me) - 3 srm missile racks and a large laser. - a medium mech firepower, with srms so randomly spreading that i can forget about them. And they fly only 270 meters

Edited by Biruke, 11 April 2013 - 10:22 PM.