95 replies to this topic

[Anita Chess]

People who complain that endings may be added (or just elaborated) tend to compare the game to art. "Art"? seriously? Let's say it is true.

How many thousands of times did artists get hired to make a specific thing, or if their work was not satisfactory it had to be changed or it was not paid for? How many examples are there for statues, paintings, poems, ect. with a similar issue?

Sure, an artist can ignore all this and live a poor life with no recognition, and hope that they get praised after they die.
But this is business, the artist, or game developer has to deliver to the gamers who buy the games. Especially if the developer promished things that in the end weren't fulfilled (clear example of how differently devs talked about how "Journey" endings will turn out ever since ME1, up till near release of ME3). And of course developers want to get paid while they live.

Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age 1 , Fallout 1-2.
They had no uber-graphics, but they had a fulfilling epilogue at least. ME3 had not even some concept art and written story on what the cultures, people, and events they get involved with changed and turned out. No, you just got a f****** choice among 3 endings, with a surprising black hole/travel to jungle planet crash landing for Normandy, and if you picked the green color ending you atleast didn't kill off the Geth, and EDI and Joker get a happy ending, this is essentially the only thing you could call a proper closure for atleast a single little thing.

The game essentially ignored how renegade/paragon worked in the past 2 games, you get 3-4 events where clicking renegade either seems to be the obvious choice (bar scene) or the soldier one while paragon option doesn't show up or as you wait for it to show up you just allow people to get killed off. (including yourself, yes the main character essentially gets killed if you don't pick a Renegade choice, you are FORCED to do this "+not really a choice". Obvious "but thou must" event)

...Okay, I stop now. Just let us be clear, it is not just that the ending was terrible, it is also that the expectations were different after months of developer communication towards customers, plus more and more people speak up and tell that the devs didn't even know themself how the game should end (or if they want to show Tali's face or not), rewrote the ending atleast twice, and and the game was still not finalized in December/January. Heck, even the music artist got rushed by EA, you can imagine what all other dev sections had to go through then.

Officially the game wasn't rushed and the ending is a masterpiece that the devs are proud of, inofficially they got rushed and didn't even know what to do wit hthe ending and it was basically a coin toss/last moment decision, and they used images like a desktop background and photoshopped picture for the game (ending winter scene with 2 people, and Tali's picture) which while doesn't proves the above, it gives even more reason to accept all the other things as truth.


...Basically, what most fans who complain about is that the quality just isn't what it should be considering it is the last episode of Shepard's story. Not worthy of a proper closure, and it has terrible bugs like the not updating Journal which should have been recognized by the lightest/shortest test phase group of teenagers.

Edited by Anita Chess, 31 March 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[guardian wolf]

Catharsis, on 31 March 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Mixed feelings there. I agree that a developer should not let the audience determine the direction of a story. But at the same time, look at how much life the expanded universe has given Star Wars. Maybe that is not a good example though.
I do think that the ending of Mass Effect should be done better justice. The series deserves that. But I also feel bad for Bioware. I wonder what they were thinking? It would suck if they honestly wrote that ending, thinking it was the best, only to have the public ***** all over it.

I think that if they do change the ending, Bioware should get some of the more organized heads of the public video gaming community, ask them to put together a list of the problems they had with the ending, a list of things they feel they should see, and them Bioware should be allowed to make an ending as they see fit with those lists in mind. I think that is a lot better than the public just demanding "closure" and a "good ending" and what not.

I really do not know. Part of me does not care, part of me wants a better ending, and part of me is happy with what we got combined with my own imagination and interesting theories like this "indoctrination".

Yeah, and along the same lines, does anybody feel like looking over a Star Wars Fan Fic that I am hoping to publish, maybe even get it as a part of canon, during the hyper space wars of the old republic.

[Catharsis]

guardian wolf, on 31 March 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Yeah, and along the same lines, does anybody feel like looking over a Star Wars Fan Fic that I am hoping to publish, maybe even get it as a part of canon, during the hyper space wars of the old republic.

I could only help by proof reading for grammar, really. My knowledge of the expanded universe really does not go that far beyond a bit of the new Republic stuff with Mara Jade and Anakin Solo and Kyle Katarn and all that oh and KOTOR. I wish I had time to read all the other stories! I wish this was the Matrix where we could learn entire collections of knowledge in seconds through programs

[Carebear]

LOL.

http://www.eurogamer...-3-extended-cut

Free DLC from EA. Man, this is what the world has come to. Maybe they're playing some EA = Evil, Bioware = Good stuff. Soon you eat from our hands EA!

Although Free DLC could mean new PR trick to **** off fans and get everyone crying on the internet yet again...

Edited by Carebear, 05 April 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Catamount]

"Additional clarity"; wonderful.

So they're not going to fix the fact that the ending (note: singular) doesn't remotely fit the game in any way shape or form, that it fails to give any treatment whatsoever (not treatment I might subjectively call good, ANY treatment) to half the themes and issues explored in the game's story, to the point to often taking a big dump on the games' previous explorations of those story elements, fails to offer the player any kind of choice beyond a barely-different set of dichotomous options that all end up in the same place in every meaningful way, and effectively nullifies every choice the player makes about everything across three games.

If Bioware wants to make the ending sad, they're perfectly free to (though it kind fails to deliver their promise of "choice" to force anything on us); I'd just like them to spend months and months making an ending that's better than what I could come up with in 30 minutes.

Edited by Catamount, 05 April 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[Carebear]

The thing is BIoware do whatever EA's marketing guys says to them, if they want drama/crying end Bioware do it, same apply for all interviews etc, you often see interviewer asking some "tough" questions, and they just says "I cant comment on it". Everything what they say are given to them, what they can say and what not. It just never stop surprising me how people dont understand what kind of company EA is.

Edited by Carebear, 05 April 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[Sesambrot]

Carebear, on 05 April 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

... It just never stop surprising me how people dont understand what kind of company EA is.

On that note...
I'm not sure if I should be happy about that outcome just yet. It sounds like they're at most going to explain a few things about the ending that is still pretty much "poo"! The "extra" cutscenes sound just like a three-colored expansion on the current ending...
Call me a pessimist, but it'll take way more than that to redeem yourself, Bioware!
I mean it's nice that they're actually doing something, but the info we've just gotten about it, doesn't really make me happy...

[Catharsis]

Sesambrot, on 06 April 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

On that note...
I'm not sure if I should be happy about that outcome just yet. It sounds like they're at most going to explain a few things about the ending that is still pretty much "poo"! The "extra" cutscenes sound just like a three-colored expansion on the current ending...
Call me a pessimist, but it'll take way more than that to redeem yourself, Bioware!
I mean it's nice that they're actually doing something, but the info we've just gotten about it, doesn't really make me happy...

Tell me about it. The way they made the announcement has really worried me. It seems like they are just (looking for appropriate metaphor) trying to keep the wolves at bay by getting all the complaining fans to shut up for a few months. And I bet it was certainly a PR stunt after the whole "Worst Company" debacle

I think that EA "winning" the worst company is a really good sign of just how large the video game industry is, how many people are actually video game consumers, and how screwed up EA is nowadays. There are some pretty bad corporations in America, outside of video gaming, but the fact that a video game publish received this oh so wonderful title is impressive. Impressively pathetic...

Oh, but I was thinking while bored to death on my flight last night and I came up with a far-fetched but completely legitimate excuse for Bioware's behavior. I know it is probably the least likely thing in existence, but I thought I would share it for optimism
SO
Bioware has planned this entire thing from the beginning. Having a ***** ending, having the fans complain about it for months, having EA get enough hate to earn the Worst Company title, and then having them cave in to give them a little time to develop a new ending FOR FREE. They even planned the ending and how they would put it all together, and have worked on it since ME3 first was released, even before the fans started complaining. The reason for this is that EA rushed the crap out of ME3 and Bioware was unable to give the game the ending it deserved. So, knowing that EA would most likely refuse to give them extra time, and even more likely refuse to let them publish free DLC, Bioware cooked up the crappy ending, knowing fans would hate on it, and went ahead and released the game on time. They then counted on the fans going apeshit and EA caving in to their demands so that they could have extra time, budget, and resources to make the ending the game deserved AND release it for free!

So it really all is just genius Bioware planning, right from the beginning.

hahahhahaha
I know that it is HIGHLY unlikely. But oh well, it is nice to think those thoughts for a brief moment.

[SquareSphere]

Catharsis, on 07 April 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

So it really all is just genius Bioware planning, right from the beginning.

hahahhahaha
I know that it is HIGHLY unlikely. But oh well, it is nice to think those thoughts for a brief moment.

It's more likely than you think. People seem to forget that EA have owned Bioware since 2007, the same year Mass Effect 1 came out. I find it highly unlikely that EA "forced" BW's hand on the ending. There's no real evidence of EA interference. If anything it's more likely that peoples WITHIN Bioware put pressure on the creative teams for this type of ending. Why? Who knows. We're missing critical data such as if there was a change in the bonus structure, or if there were changes in the internal metrics of what constitutes as "successful" game.

[Catharsis]

SquareSphere, on 07 April 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

It's more likely than you think. People seem to forget that EA have owned Bioware since 2007, the same year Mass Effect 1 came out. I find it highly unlikely that EA "forced" BW's hand on the ending. There's no real evidence of EA interference. If anything it's more likely that peoples WITHIN Bioware put pressure on the creative teams for this type of ending. Why? Who knows. We're missing critical data such as if there was a change in the bonus structure, or if there were changes in the internal metrics of what constitutes as "successful" game.

I really do wish I had mind reading powers. It would be useful day to day, useful for dealing with the girlfriend, useful with getting an edge on the economy... but currently, it would be most interesting to be able to see what exactly Bioware is thinking... and it would be interesting, albeit horrifying, to see how EA thinks the idiotic way they do.

[Sesambrot]

Ha, I like the way you think!
Paranoia and conspiracy theories, what more do you need to stay entertained? And these days you have plenty to work with... lol

Catharsis, on 07 April 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

I really do wish I had mind reading powers. It would be useful day to day, useful for dealing with the girlfriend, useful with getting an edge on the economy... but currently, it would be most interesting to be able to see what exactly Bioware is thinking... and it would be interesting, albeit horrifying, to see how EA thinks the idiotic way they do.

"...useful for dealing with the girlfriend..."
This is probably the most intriguing thing about the idea, as my only explanation so far is that women are crazy by nature, in fact I've almost given up in trying to understand them...

As for EA, it's very simple really:

Spoiler

"moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney...................................."

[SquareSphere]

Oh bioware, now you announce an "extended cut ending" which is supposed to "explain" some of the plot holes.

Too bad I've already watched it

[Sesambrot]

you guys may wanna have a look at this.
It's a well written blogpost about how the ending of ME3 even fails on a basic narrative level...
At least that's as far as I understand it...

Btw, the post following the linked one is also worth reading.

[Catharsis]

Sesambrot, on 08 April 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

you guys may wanna have a look at this.
It's a well written blogpost about how the ending of ME3 even fails on a basic narrative level...
At least that's as far as I understand it...

Btw, the post following the linked one is also worth reading.

Huh, I will have to give this a read. I can not right now; too much work load at the moment. But I will edit this when I get around to it. It looks interesting

[SquareSphere]

That is a great write up and encompasses why I hated the ending so much. I don't care if the ending is happy or tragic as long as it plays true to the story telling.

Yes, it was about the journey and the characters we bonded with, the ending almost whole sales forgets them. Lets not mention about the whole universe and all the other stories that were added. Did the Korgan really evolve beyond their violent tendancies? Are the Geth and Quarians still making nice? What about the Asari on Thesia, sure looked liked they were getting wiped out. What about the Hanar, Drell, Volus, Batarians and all the other minor races?

The one thing left out in the write up is the gawd damn "Some N7, (possibly Shepard), breaths" extra scene. While he talks about how that would play into the Indoctrination theory, he doesn't talk about how that's the ONLY way that device would actually make sense. Otherwise it's just another BS plot hole.