108 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I know that typical gameplay activity will gain you C-Bills and XP, like killing other Mechs, accomplishing Scouting goals, etc. My question is:

"If we have players who lose frequently and early in their matches, then how can they repair their Mechs and keep playing the game?"

Will Mech repairs be so affordable that even the players who die right-off-the-bat can afford to repair their Mechs to operational status after each mission, or will repairs be free up-to-a-point and then begin costing C-bills... or...?

I can't expect anyone to pay cash/money for more c-bills just so they can repair their Mech for the next match, especially if they haven't played much and aren't convinced that MW:O is as awesome as I imagine it will be. I heard the Devs say that you can't lose your Mech to combat effects, and they said that partially-repaired Mechs can be fielded in combat, but I don't remember them saying anything about how much it costs to repair a Mech and how much "Mission Success" you'd have to experience before you can afford full Mech repairs.

[MechaKitsune]

Guessing it will work similar to World of Tank's system, in that repairs will be affordable even on the C-Bills you will earn from a loss.

Larger, more expensive mechs later in the game may cost more to maintain, but your early mech(s) should cost relatively little to repair. I'm sure the devs wont let anyone fall into a black hole of inability to afford simple repairs.

[Scanlon]

Good question. Im a person who gets held up on team-play to a fault. I imagine I will die frequently.

For instance, Im the Jenner running about as the tattle-tale mech to my friend the Catapult. Saying:

Me: "Hey Catapult dude, theyre over here, shooting the ever living hell out of me, please shoot them. Over"
Catapult: Yeah, Roger, moving to position to fire. Keep that lock on them. Over"
Me: "WILCO, hurry up cause theyre kicking the **** out of me. Out"

30 seconds later

Me: "Hey catapult im really ****ed up how about that missile volley? Over"
Catapult: "Sorry, I got held up capturing a position, I forgot. Over"
Me: "Ahhh!" KABLOOEY

Edited by Scanlon, 23 March 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[00dlez]

This is covered in multiple posts

• Even if you lose, you will earn some cash
  
• Repairs to minimum functionality will be free/cheap enough to keep playing

If you are so bad/unlucky that you never win a round I suspect you wont enjoy the game enough to keep playing anyway.

[CeeKay Boques]

You uncovered their secret plan. Everyone is so worried about it being paid to win, you didn't realize... it was Pay to Lose! Reverse psych!

[Felicitatem Parco]

00dlez, on 23 March 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

This is covered in multiple posts

• Even if you lose, you will earn some cash
  
• Repairs to minimum functionality will be free/cheap enough to keep playing

"Minumum Functionality" is not a term people like to use when describing the kind of BattleMech they wanna take into combat. Actually, the kind of people who die frequently will die much faster if they have to field minimally functional Mechs.

I am posting this in respect for people who are new to MechWarrior sims, people who don't know the controls, the nuances of BattleMechs, or the playstyle differences between a First Person SIm and a First Person Shooter. I can see a new player getting hammered because he thought that rush-charging was an awesome tactic, then they can't afford full repairs, then they die even faster in the next round, find themselves unable to afford full repairs, deicde that half-repaired Mechs are crap... and then they quit.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 23 March 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[00dlez]

Prosperity Park, on 23 March 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

"Minumum Functionality" is not a term people like to use when describing the kind of BattleMech they wanna take into combat. Actually, the kind of people who die frequently will die much faster if they have to field minimally functional Mechs.

I am posting this in respect for people who are new to MechWarrior sims, people who don't know the controls, the nuances of BattleMechs, or the playstyle differences between a First Person SIm and a First Person Shooter. I can see a new player getting hammered because he thought that rush-charging was an awesome tactic, then they can't afford full repairs, then they die even faster in the next round, find themselves unable to afford full repairs, deicde that half-repaired Mechs are crap... and then they quit.

Thats an very easy lessen to learn from, especially the 2nd time. Not to mention that even if they die, the team can still win. If you insist on doing nothing but charging head long, dying, and causing your team to lose so consistently that you can never get your mech back to full functionality, let alone expand your hanger and end up qutting... Good riddance.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Here's the thing. You can always go forth and fight. Thus you will always win some cash. Let's say you have half of what you need to fully repair your mech. Don't. You heard me. Leave the money in the bank and take that partially repaired mech into the battle. Your teammates ill hate you, but you did bring some modules that mean you aren't totally useless right? So win or lose, you now have more cash. Rinse, repeat until you can repair your mech and try again.

An alternative plan is don't repair certain weapons. IE MG, SL, etc on a LRM mech. You rarely use them, so just spend the cash and get your armor up to speed. If you suck at close range combat anyway, chances are they will just get blown away anyway and you will have to buy them again.

In other words, spend your money wisely, and you won't have a problem. Waste it, and you will.

[Sprouticus]

This is something Im not too concerned about. They should be able to tune the C-Bill rewards so that most people get enough to repair a mech without too many problems. It is a simple matter of saying 'ok we want people who only win x% (say 10%) of their matches to get enough C-Bills to break even' everyone else makes money.


The trick is to slide the cost of stuff up in a steep curve, so that if you have customized your mech, or if you have advanced tech (XL engines, electronics, endo steel, etc) on a mech, that it costs a LOT more. Make basic survival cost a little and advanced stuff cost a **** ton.

Plus they have said straight out in interviews that you can pay to 'reduce time' and 'buy mechs', which heavily implies you will be able to buy C-Bills. So even the worst player can buy stuff if need be. I doubt it will be needed for basic repairs, but if you really suck and you still want that mech that you love that just came out you wont have to wait a month to save up for it.

[Bryan Ekman]

This is one of our concerns and will be addressed by a lot of play testing and balancing. I view the OP's concerns as a stick if we do not address it correctly. I don't want people to be punished so severely, that they are no longer able to play. This is a game after all, something we do for enjoyment.

[Seabear]

My take on this is that there may be practice sites to hone one's skills before getting involved in the meat of the game. While I can't point to any one place and say this is the reason, the overall tone of what the devs have said lead me to the belief that new players are not going to be thrown to the wolves (at least not until the clan invasion). Sorry for the bad joke. There may also be some system in the bidding/contrsct/assignment portion of the game that lets new folks "ease" into it. They are taking this game very seriously from both the palyer's perspective and from the lore, so I feel we can trust them to protect both.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Bryan Ekman, on 23 March 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

This is one of our concerns and will be addressed by a lot of play testing and balancing. I view the OP's concerns as a stick if we do not address it correctly. I don't want people to be punished so severely, that they are no longer able to play. This is a game after all, something we do for enjoyment.

Well, it's better than a sharp stick in the eye!

[Felix Dante]

People tend to forget another aspect of game balance...the smaller the mech the cheaper it is to repair.

The Atlas can take a lot of punishment, but they can also rack up a huge cost in repairs comparitively to say
...a Commando or Jenner.

Food for thought?

[T0RC4ED]

Another point of advise, If your piloting and gunnery skills are.... how shall I say this.... LACKING... See what you can do with sensors. If your a scout you should remember that your role is not direct combat... IE spott the enemy, track them but stay out of range of the common deadly threats like AC20s and medium lasers. If im not mistaken the max range of a AC20 is like 400m and a normal medium laser is 300m.
Your no good to your lance as cannon fodder.

[00dlez]

T0RC4ED, on 23 March 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Another point of advise, If your piloting and gunnery skills are.... how shall I say this.... LACKING... See what you can do with sensors. If your a scout you should remember that your role is not direct combat... IE spott the enemy, track them but stay out of range of the common deadly threats like AC20s and medium lasers. If im not mistaken the max range of a AC20 is like 400m and a normal medium laser is 300m.
Your no good to your lance as cannon fodder.

All quick and easy lessons to learn for players willing to adapt their play-style to what works versus what they saw on Gundam Wing last week. If you are unwilling to even try to adopt a role within winning team tactics, then you have no business in a team game.

[Nick Makiaveli]

00dlez, on 23 March 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

All quick and easy lessons to learn for players willing to adapt their play-style to what works versus what they saw on Gundam Wing last week. If you are unwilling to even try to adopt a role within winning team tactics, then you have no business in a team game.

Yes and no. Easy to learn, hard to put into practice. A lot of the time people lose because they lose track of the primary objective. They know they are scouting, but they get carried away and keep shooting instead of firing one quick blast and run.

Also, this isn't a team game. It's a game where individuals can choose to make teams. Baseball is a team game, MWO isn't.

[Wyzak]

To me, the term "minimally functional state" means all internals repaired, one primary weapon, and no armor. So your best strategy might be to fully repair your armor and whatever weapons you really think you need to win (like Nick Makiaveli said.) Drawing a parallel with FPS games - in single player mode you might cart around 11 weapons, but only end up using one for an hour; in a multiplayer game you might want to save weight and money and just use the one (until you can afford to repair the full config)

My advice - going cheap on armor in any Mechwarrior game is a recipe for disaster. You can play cautiously with a pair of medium lasers and make a difference, but you can't go without armor.

[Sarriss]

00dlez, on 23 March 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

All quick and easy lessons to learn for players willing to adapt their play-style to what works versus what they saw on Gundam Wing last week. If you are unwilling to even try to adopt a role within winning team tactics, then you have no business in a team game.

Dude where are you that you could have watched Gundam Wing last week? They need to put out a definitive collectors set of it *sigh* Anyway, getting back to the OP, a lot of what has been said is probably going to be very true come game day. Lighter mechs will cost less to maintain, replacing weapons you don't use is probably poor money management, running into the fray and getting killed by a hail of laser and missile fire without getting so much as a shot off is going to really diminish your earning potential. Play smart, play as a team and I bet win or lose you'll still earn enough to repair your mech on a per match basis. The other part we are forgetting is some matches, we may not be damaged, we may sport more energy based loadouts that require little to none ammo refit costs, so I'm sure after a little while you'll start to have such ample c-bill reserves you stop worrying about the repair cost all together.

[guardian wolf]

I can see this as a problem, but like Garth has said, then either downgrade your mech, or repair only what you need if you are a support mech.

[Rufus Ingram]

I was concerned about this, planning to stay in lights, but there is a difference between being KO'd myself and having my team lose (not that I don't have my part to do). Anyway, the devs are on it, and all of us want plenty of opponents so repairs won't be overly burdensome. I hope repairs add to the feeling the battles matter (along with planet control) but keep people wanting to fight again. Can't do that with half a 'Mech.