80 replies to this topic

[Franchi]

Wargtass, on 26 October 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

A centered sunburst is a Japanese Army Insignia as well (edit: or rather was), so if we are going to be offended I'd say that design is moot as well.

Not if you disconnect the rays from the center as i suggested and as all the canon paint schemes do.

Anyone who sees the current mech is going to think Japanese flag its simple symbology.

Jason1138, on 26 October 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

this paint job is canon and not something PGI created

As I pointed out the paint scheme is NOT cannon. A centered sunburst is cannon an off centered sunburst is not, simply changing that ONE thing that PGI changed BACK to cannon removes much of the symbology that screams Japanese.

Edited by Franchi, 26 October 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[CocoaJin]

I wonder if the artist for the original/first "canon reference" was given a written discription that described a sun motiff for an Asian-centric House, and the artist assumed it was supposed to Japanese in theme...not realizing there was also a historical Chinese themed sun motiff that was more appropriate. Or the artist never took note of the Davion ensignias that showed a red and gold sun motiff for the faction.

Lets be real, if the artist was American(we like to think we are knowledgable about the world, but we are so out of touch...the arrogance of privelege and prestege) and the art commisioned in the 80's, I wouldnt be surprised if the artist was ignorant of the distinction between the two.

So we get a design woefully out of place.

Edited by CocoaJin, 26 October 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[Mythus]

The paint job just gives me a convenient place to aim

[Wargtass]

These threads suck, everytime I say 'I quit' I immediately have something else to say.

Jason1138, on 26 October 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

it might interest people to know that yen lo wang is also worshiped in japan as well as china and korea



the chinese in the 50's killed more chinese than the japanese did from 29-45. so maybe the communist chinese flag should be more offensive to chinese people than the japanese flag is?

i'm not defending japan at all. i just think this is an utterly ridiculous thing to get upset about, for a variety of reasons. if you want to be upset anyway, go ahead, but this paint job is canon and not something PGI created

If you meant to represent that the Chinese government have killed more Chinese than the Japanese, that is fine. But you either miss-typed or had another meaning behind it when you wrote that the Chinese killed more Japanese than the Japanese killed Chinese. That is what I reacted on. I also think that this controversy has no place here among us. We have no reason to be offended on their part. I am sure this has been discussed at length in the Asian parts of the forum.

Academus, on 26 October 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

I dont think anyone WITHIN this community feel offended by the skin.
What I worry is the reaction people WITHOUT this community, particularly mainland Chinese netizens, will have when they come across the image.

If we have to worry about that I think we are caring a bit too much about what others think. Losing the Asian market (I seriously don't believe this will be what push it over the edge) would put a minor dent in PGI's income since we (BT-fans) are it's biggest market, the Western hemisphere comes second. BattleTech has never been that big around there anyway and the PRC censure makes sure a lot of the political stuff disappears anyway.

ROC (Taiwan) on the other hand might be a problem since they have an open market and their appreciation of Western gaming-culture is bigger. But as said before: We have no need to be offended on their part.

[Lucity]

I love that it's cannon, but I'm down with changing the sun burst to neon pink. Who doesn't like neon pink, really now?

[Otto Cannon]

http://mwomercs.com/...ng-nationality/

[Leeroy Mechkins]

It's like putting a Mexican flag on a new premium US tank in World of Tanks.
Hey its around the same part of the world anyway, so who's going to notice!
North America, South America, its America right?
Hey no problem, its canon, so it can't look stupid!

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 26 October 2012 - 10:49 AM.

[ODonovan]

FOLKS... The paint job on YLW is supposed to be CANON.

THIS paint job...


is CANNON.

Canon vs. cannon... Learn the difference. Love it. Use it.


That is all.



-Irish

[Thelira Bekker]

2nd generation Chinese American chiming in on this. You cannot equate the British FOUNDING of colonies on this continent with the war crimes commited against the countries of the far east. Forcing women into "comfort houses," and brutally raping them (some VERY young) for hours on end leaves quite a stale taste in many mouths. What compounds the issue is the Japanese attitude towards the whole ordeal after WW2. Some of the execution games played by Japanese soldiers (and subsequently documented BY the Japanese newspapers) are absolutely unbelievable.

That being said I do not hold a single grudge against the founders of MWO as they are strictly trying to adhere to canon. The person who designed the camo pattern though could have bothered to open an encyclopedia for 2 minutes. Also, I have nothing against the modern day Japanese people and two close friends are of Japanese decent. My hate lies straight on the shoulders of ANYONE of ANY nationality that will commit crimes of such terrible nature. I refuse to visit mainland China even to this day for the atrocities that occurd during the communist takeover.

[rolly]

Mahws, on 25 October 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

It's the Rising Sun Flag, used by the Japanese Navy/Military and trust me, no Chinese person would find that awesome or marketable. Still a lot of anger over the Sino-Japanese war crimes and the rising sun design is seen as a symbol of Japanese imperialism. It's got about the same emotional impact as a swastika does for people in the west.

In my opinion Piranha should have redesigned the mech (like they've done with everything else) and avoided the whole awkwardness of it, but seeing as the mods have locked all the prior threads on the subject I think it's safe to say it's here to stay.

Really? Last time I checked that war was oh about 70 YEARS AGO. Fueling sentiment like this is frankly failing to move on.

Next, lets complain about how the Centurion mech represents a symbol of Roman oppression over the Gauls, most of Europe and the Christians. If you want to ignore the "pot calling the kettle black", I'm very sure we shouldn't get into Chinese imperialism with the Tibetans shall we?

The point is: Its a great and iconic paint scheme on a fictional legend. I'm very glad they've stuck with canon and included it. Looking further into it is moot and irrelevant to the context. Or put another way "Call a spade a spade."

Edited by rolly, 26 October 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[rolly]

Thelira Bekker, on 26 October 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

2nd generation Chinese American chiming in on this. You cannot equate the British FOUNDING of colonies on this continent with the war crimes commited against the countries of the far east. Forcing women into "comfort houses," and brutally raping them (some VERY young) for hours on end leaves quite a stale taste in many mouths. What compounds the issue is the Japanese attitude towards the whole ordeal after WW2. Some of the execution games played by Japanese soldiers (and subsequently documented BY the Japanese newspapers) are absolutely unbelievable.

That being said I do not hold a single grudge against the founders of MWO as they are strictly trying to adhere to canon. The person who designed the camo pattern though could have bothered to open an encyclopedia for 2 minutes. Also, I have nothing against the modern day Japanese people and two close friends are of Japanese decent. My hate lies straight on the shoulders of ANYONE of ANY nationality that will commit crimes of such terrible nature. I refuse to visit mainland China even to this day for the atrocities that occurd during the communist takeover.

The whole point of a future generation is to move on, especially from hatred passed down, ideology and bigotry. You're really not doing your close two friends justice if you carry on about stereotyping Japanese sentiment and attitude. Assumptions on an entire cultures "attitude" is folly, and I might add off topic.

[laconic specter]

Honestly, to put the mech in context, neither China or Japan or any modern nations exist during the Battletech time period anyway so I really do not see why it matters. The mech has a sunburst on it. So what? Why does it have to mean something?

[De La Fresniere]

Chinese name, Japanese skin. Yeah, sure, that's a little weird. But what struck me the most was that those things are found on a Centurion. A Roman-themed mech.

Poor pilot must have been insanely confused. Or confusingly insane. One or the other.

[Deathz Jester]

ODonovan, on 26 October 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

FOLKS... The paint job on YLW is supposed to be CANON.

THIS paint job...


is CANNON.

Canon vs. cannon... Learn the difference. Love it. Use it.


That is all.



-Irish

IS THAT THE FIRST YEN LO WANG?

[The Helepolis]

This thread again?

Solaris
Sol
Sun
Sun-burst

Cave Johnson, we're done here.

[Franchi]

IronWolf Vascus, on 26 October 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

This thread again?

Solaris
Sol
Sun
Sun-burst

Cave Johnson, we're done here.

Then center it in the mech and disconnect the rays from the circle, wow that would be like canon.

Edited by Franchi, 26 October 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[rolly]

Chief Tofu Brain, on 26 October 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Plus, offending people over internet is not a good PR for anyone. It's not 80's anymore guys.

Unfortunately, there are always people who will get offended. As long as they have a forum on the internet, they'll always have their virtual soap box to climb onto and rant.

You can't please everyone, and folks who look too deeply into their perceived offensive meaning of a paintjob, much less a virtual skin of a legendary fictionary sci-fi mech, will probably never be pleased. For that matter, its not the 40's anymore either

[The Helepolis]

Franchi, on 26 October 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Then center it in the mech and disconnect the rays from the circle, wow that would be like canon.

Ooooor don't be so picky

[GioAvanti]

You guys really don't get it? The stables were not openly Laio... it was a secret thing. The best way to keep it off the radar is to make it look Japanese and not Chinese (didn't work lol). Allard was a spy and wanted to put a big blazing sign on himself saying he was laio friendly... thus "Yen Lo Wang".

He still had to use their stable colors though.

There's no ground to stand on if you're offended; so tough beans

Edited by GioAvanti, 26 October 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

It's like the Highlander came out painted in the Mexican flag.
Totally utterly nonsensical.
Then people say its fine because the color scheme really looks great.
And other people say, why should anyone be offended? Scotland and Mexico are nearly in the same part of the world.
Hey Scotland and Mexico never fought a war, why are you so PC?
1000s of years in the future, people are geographically ignorant and multiracial so they can mix up the Scottish and Mexican flags!
You are just being sensitive! It's not pants-on-head stupid looking to anyone who has ever seen a map.
You're not from Scotland or Mexico, why do you care? It's doesn't have to make any sense!

Also, Kai Allard-Liao, not Kuritan, not allied with Kurita, putting Kuritan colors is totally stupid.
It's like a New York Giant's fan painting his car in Dallas Cowboys colors or a Liverpool fan painting his car in Chelsea colors.
Completely illogical.
He would have Liao colors or Davion colors, not Kuritan.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 26 October 2012 - 08:06 PM.