265 replies to this topic

[Gramrock]

First of all thank you for talking about this with us.
And yeah I am glad that you are trying to solve problems and still try not to damage your convenience.

I have one question though.
Why closing the BETA forums ? isn't it still BETA even though its open now ?

[xMEPHISTOx]

Very nice...! Thanks for all the hard work you have put in to this game PGI so that us BT/MW lovers have a newer and better game to get our mechs on. The last few months have been interesting to say the least and the game has come a long way, looking forward to OB and the final wipe...!
And to all the naysayers out there...take a moment and think before you make your whine posts.

[Thwack]

I agree, now seems to be the perfect time! Good luck every one! I hope everyone will be patient and good ambassadors for nubs with silly questions. A mature community is essential for this game to enjoy, what I hope will be, a long and fun future. Great job so far devs keep up the good work! Bring on the fresh meat!

[Mrllamaface]

I look forward to the influx of new people. It will be good to have new perspectives on the game.
Thanks for all the hard work, a great game, and what will most certainly become even better.

[Berserker]

I'm not denying firing delay and I personally suck so bad with leading my targets that I tend to avoid ballistics. What I can't understand is if the firing delay is game breaking as folks seem to assert then why are we also having a million threads about how gausscats are overpowered? There are definitely pilots who can smoke me from range in those things when I'm running at full tilt.

[Sephlock]

Anyone?

Sephlock, on 27 October 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

"We will be resetting C-Bills, MC, XP, GXP, Mechs, and inventory. The only thing you’ll keep is your friends list. However, if you have a Founders pack, everything will be added from that pack. Also anything you’ve purchased (with MC) will be added back."

So wait, that means we should frantically spend all our MC because we'll both get what we paid for and get all our MC back?

Or...?

And what if we've done the old buy-with-mc-sell-for-cbills thing? Are we SOL?

Or am I just misinterpreting the wording somehow? "Added" back"?

[AvatarofWhat]

HRRxStormBringer, on 27 October 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

FWIW, the staff/mods are monitoring the threads. I know this because I was informed by a mod that my initial post was forwarded to Russ and the Devs.

Thats good to hear. Your post was well put together. I hope some of the other well thought out posts on this page were also shared with the devs,

[Agent of Change]

Ok, so i originally posted this yesterday evening on it's own thread (at apparently the wrong time) and it got buried in under 3 minutes, however that's for the best because I should have put it here in the first place. Brace yourselves it's a long one.

I wanted to take the moment (or more) to address Russ Bullocks post about why they are moving on open beta, and maybe start a discussion not about whether or not it's a good idea but if we think they honestly understand our reasoning and if we think we understand theirs.

I would just like to say my piece and then the floor is yours fellow mechwarriors:

I was struck in the letter by Russ's statement,

Quote

"This one in particular has always been fascinating to me, for the most part I wondered why people in the community even cared when the product went Open Beta, after all they were already playing the game and enjoying it, what did it matter to them when the product went Open Beta?

It got me thinking immediately two things: 1. If this is an honest sentiment (and I have no reason to believe it's not) then it's possible that there is a woeful lack of understanding going both ways between Developer and community and 2. I wonder if they got it right (which would confirm or deny my first thought).

First I want to address what Russ said were PGI's concerns:

Quote

1) We just can’t ask more of our closed beta testers - The closed beta testers have done an amazing job, but many of you - including many founders - are just plain fatigued at having their data wiped. In fact according to our data we even have 10’s of thousands of Founders that are just waiting for Open Beta to play again so that their play time is not wasted. It is time for us to get into Open Beta and stop the data wipes.

This I can understand, and it is a valid point. it is going to be a sticking point no matter what. PGI is facing a choice between a (relatively) captive audience who is already shown an interest in their game vs. a large potential audience. In this point, it seems to me it comes down to not wanting to alienate known fans is taking priority over risking losing potential audience. To me though when it comes to beta testers we knew what beta testing was about and resets are part and parcel, we volunteered to accept developer actions and provide feedback in order to help you build a better game, that is the implied social construct of a Beta test.

But I think it may be not Open beta and resets that many people are waiting for so much as new game modes or (the big selling point of this game beyond the IP) Community warfare.

Quote

2) We can’t effectively test certain things any further with our current community – In many ways we can’t effectively test systems both in back end infrastructure and game systems without both more and different types of players. We need to bring in new non-core players to determine what aspects of MWO interface, etc need to be changed and exactly how they should be changed. We can’t make proper headway in these areas without Open Beta.

This is a truth, it has to be the case in an MMO that you hit a certain limit with a closed audience in the scale to which you can test things. I cannot find fault with either the need or desire for this to happen, but as with most things it's a balancing act... you need to test these things but you also need the influx of people to show up and stay to test them.

Quote

3) Customer Support, server stress – we just need to take the next step in our player base to be able to stress and then take these systems to the next level.

This I see as being much the same as the second point, so my response is the same.

I can speculate to what other considerations are being taken into account but I will leave that to addressing the communities concerns and I don't want to try and put words in the developers mouths.


So now I want to go ahead and address what Russ posted as to what he believes our issues are and his solutions:

Quote

1) I don’t want to spend money on the game until it has more content – This one is very easy to address as Open Beta launch will represent the FINAL data wipe, therefore players will be starting over one last time. This also means that all of their MC, if they have purchased any, or the entirety of the Founders rewards will be reimbursed completely: therefore you get to choose when the time is right to spend your MC currency.

This is both completely accurate and incomplete. I know many people are bothered by the wipes and I know many people aren't, though I think the addition of content is primarily the delay of spending money. If the economy is fair and there are things we desire we will spend money. Many of the things we anticipate wanting to spend money on are not implemented, going to open beta will not change that. When you put in things we want the money will be spent regardless of the release status of the game, providing that the game is playable to enjoy those items.

Quote

2) I don’t think it’s fair that my Founders premium account should start at Open Beta - At an estimated Nov 13th patch all Founders will have their premium time reset once again (two free weeks of premium time!) and be given a “button” that allows Founders the opportunity to choose exactly when to start their premium time. It will not start counting down until you, the Founder, decide it is worth it.

This is dead on, and the solution is IMO perfect and fair, that's all I have to say on that.

Quote

3) Oh no it can’t be Open Beta because the game still does not have X Feature or Y piece of content, I can’t believe MWO will not said feature or content – I think all of us get caught up in the retail product mentality. Just because MWO is going Open Beta in no way means we are finished making the game or that we will even slowdown in the slightest. We already have nine months of work lined up in front of us and frankly there is no end to the work in sight. We could easily delay Open Beta endlessly to just wait for one more feature or one more piece of content which could easily become a black hole.

This is a tricky one, while the point is well taken that you have to draw the line somewhere there are certain benchmarks you will see a plurality of agreement on. You cannot put of open indefinitely especially in light of the Developer concerns addressed above, however there needs to be substance for the public to chew on. For my part it's simple and two part: 1. you should have no elements in the game that do nothing (ECM, Beagle, DHS) this will only server to confuse and frustrate new users. 2. there should be more than the self admitted 'place-holder' mission, preferably two mission types but if not that, then a finalized version of assault that isn't 'box standing in the future'

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4) I love MechWarrior and I want the whole world to love it too, but if it goes out too soon that may not happen – This is a great point of passion that we share with you, but there are just limits to what we can do and how long we can hold off on launching the product. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that the core MWO experience is a ton of fun. All of the media previews from PC Gamer to Penny Arcade agree, the core experience is extremely addictive and fun - we already have what most games never end up finding. Now we just need to add more content and more features, that’s great we can do that and will.

This is a partially accurately captured sentiment I feel. WE do love mech warrior and we want to (do) love this game, and many of those of us who hold objections over OB are terrified that it will potentially fail for being rushed out too early to the public. It's not that we are sure it will fail (though some are) it's that we want to see it launch and thrive. For my part it's the difference between incomplete working racings complete and mostly complete working towards more than complete. This ties in with the sentiment that (and this has been uttered in various forms by PGI staff) that as far as the public is concerned with F2P games Open Beta (as defined by PGI) is Release.

It may not be accurate but there will be no distinction by the public and THAT is the point we find worrisome, because that is the point at which PGI places the game in direct competition with other F2P games and many feel that if you aren't already tied to the IP the comparison isn't favorable.

But that isn't all, there is also the deep concern (completeness aside) that because of the current issues in the game (some nearly game breaking) and the fact that people won't make the beta not beta distinction it will suffer for that. So that wish there is that we see at least some short period of true stability prior to OB in order to show the world MWO's good side for a first impression

-- Now I get to the speculation part. The fifth concern not listed in the release notes.

5. We as a community are worried the decision to move to Open Beta now is more of a financial decision made by the games backers than on the current merits of the game or the wishes of the developer. In other words, we feel it may be being thrown out as a cash grab (whether because money is short or because profits are demanded) with little regard from the powers that be as to whether or not it gives it the best chance to survive in the long run.

It's not pretty but that is the feeling among many of the community, if it is in fact the case well there really isn't much we can do about it. we can say our piece and hope we are heard but money makes the world go round, so we hope this isn't the case. But if it is we also hope that the game does succeed because we have invested too much time and effort so far not to care.

So that's my piece, I know it's a book. These are my opinions and views and if I've missed anything or miscategorized anything let's have a discussion so at the very least it will be clear to PGI what we feel and maybe by being clear about our positions we can understand their positions a little better.

Edited by Agent of Change, 27 October 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[Elder Thorn]

you got my medium laser!

[THEBTM]

@ Garth, love ya man

[Haroldwolf]

I am going to assume Russ and company know what they are doing. I hope the open beta patch is top notch because this will be a first impression for a lot of gamers next week. Too many bad impressions and the game will be a failure to launch.

God luck PGI!

[Von Falkenstein]

Nugar, on 26 October 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Although I expected Open Beta to start soon, are you kidding me with it being the 29th? You just dropped this enormous patch on us and most of it doesn't even work properly! November 6th before double heat sinks get fixed, maybe? Ferro fibrous armor is useless? Weird crashes abounding? Sheesh. Look, I get that you want to go open beta. But don't dump an huge load of new features that quite provably do not work and then say 'Oh, well, look at all the features we put in the game before open beta!' No, they're not in the game yet. Take at least a week to get this stuff fixed first. Even going open beta before this patch would have made more sense, at least it was pretty stable, inability to close the process notwithstanding.

Take a little time to get this snarled mess of a patch actually working, then go open beta. I ain't asking for all the features to be in it yet. But I do want an actual working game before it suddenly 'launches'.

This.

[CommanderOSIS]

all I ask is that you get the fps drop issue fixed before open beta. even if I get two weeks of premium free with a game I cant be any good at because its a slide show doesnt do me any good. thats my only request atm. thank you for the disclosure

[Shelshoq]

I am ready for OB all i need are the atlas boots of stomping and i can teach the puny mechs whose boss!!!!

[Shelminator]

I like battletech universe..i am very happy that this game exist..i am glad that you are responding and watching to our feedbacks and trying and working to fix problems..and thank you for all the work.. but open beta now? you have to be in desperate need of money..or you have to be misled by something or someone in your feelings and thinkings... or i do now know

I am looking forward to that, that my mechs and cbills etc, will not be reseting again..BUT..i do not think that the game is ready to open beta - why? most of it was said before my post..and i agree

Of course many new people will stay..but i am afraid that (with the current status of the game) more people will leave after they will try. Most of us here..are HC fans (game, universe, etc) so we can forgive you many things..but the "mainstream" people will not
I am not affraid that this pre-mature open beta will cause that the game will not be a succes in overal - remember..you still have a lot of founders and other people from HC fans.. but i think that if you will just a little more wait and fix and optimize some things..you can attract and (what is more important) hold more players who will come with open beta..

I wish you..and us..good luck..and because you already made you mind about the date.. we have left only prays..

PS: omg..fix at least that performance drop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or change min. specs..

[anonymous175]

[Fentus]

One major problem with the game. and only one, why do I have to pay for my upgrades every time I switch them? This is a very bad feature if I bought the "Endo Steel", "Double Heat Sink" and the "Ferro-Fibrous" armor why can't I just pick back up the old armor or is this is a case of underpants gnomes all over again...

Edited by Fentus, 27 October 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[Fooooo]

Fentus, on 27 October 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

One major problem with the game. and only one, why do I have to pay for my upgrades every time I switch them? This is a very bad feature if I bought the "Endo Steel", "Double Heat Sink" and the "Ferro-Fibrous" armor why can't I just pick back up the old armor or is this is a case of underpants gnomes all over again...

Charging for the switch is fair imo, its a money sink that is definitely needed.


Not letting you try it out to see if it fits or is even useful to your build etc before you pay is not. (unless of course they wanted that harsh of a sink to be in game....)

However they have already stated they are going to fix that so don't worry about that one.

Edited by Fooooo, 27 October 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[maxmarechal]

i just can't believe your going OB so soon after a patch we have not even finished testing...WTH? we went thru CB for weeks trying to help you test everything,posting,discussing ,trying set-ups with equipments you pay for but do not even work (ecm,beagle....)....this is just too soon!!!!
delay OB!!!!talk to the money-holders!!!!
you will certainly not loose any core player by going OB ,After all ...you had us go thru all sorts of wipes and tests and we stayed!!!
but you may loose a lot of "new founders" discovering a game not finished,with equipments that do not work (DHS...FF armor...) .
And as we all know the financial balance of a game comes from the great number of casual players who readily accept to dump a bit of cash in a game for "just a peek around",so if we loose them so soon due to a premature release ,we probably loose the game!!!

[Herr Schmidt]

So you realy think MW:O is 95% stable and bug free?

Well, good luck then !

On my opinion MW:O is not ready for OB. Reason's were told in former post's.

When OB start's, you have a great chance of good word-of-mouth advertising, if people like what they see.
But if the product is buggy and low on content, you can ruin your reputation to a future community.

Please think of that it's easier to scare off customer with an unready product, then to get back disapointed customers !

regards

Edited by Herr Schmidt, 28 October 2012 - 12:47 AM.