49 replies to this topic

[Vollstrecker]

Moosehead, on 01 April 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Didn't one of the novels have a Locust pilot experiencing heat build up, or am I crazy and/or memory problems? I wouldn't really mind normally 'cool' mechs actually having to worry about heat, and boats _really_ having to worry

A number of writers did have this kind of thing, and there are two reasons I can think of off the top of my head:

1.) In some of those cases (William Keith - Gray Death author) states that they're operating without their heat sinks online to avoid detection, leaving the slow heat buildup without anywhere to vent except when they stop in a safe location to do so (and open their heat sinks). In reality, such a measure would likely prove less than effective, but you get it.

2.) Some weapons recharge faster than others, and in some cases may generate heat faster than it dissipates. Hard to imagine a Locust managing this without engine damage, but I believe the Solaris rules from long ago had rules for being able to fire weapons multiple times in a round.

[Solis Obscuri]

Strum Wealh, on 01 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Another useful example in this case would be the Supernova.
It has 26 Double Heat Sinks installed; it would have an overall dissipation rate of 5.2 units of heat per second.
If the Supernova were to fire its six ER Large Lasers together while standing still, it would generate 72 units of heat (12 per ERLL) instantly.
It should take the Supernova's 26 DHSs about 13.85 seconds to completely dissipate all of the heat generated by that six-ERLL firing.

Your thoughts?

Heh - I tried that once in MW3, I went critical before the reactor could even try to shut down. Made me kinda happy.

I hope heat build-up from things like alpha strikes is tracked strictly enough that similar things will happen if people try to use it too aggressively in this game. (I flogged heat build-up/dissipation with charts here, but I'm not going to kill you all with charts in the middle of this thread.)

I agree that running hot should definitely have consequences, too, things like sensor malfunctions, accuracy loss, and decreased movement speeds are definitely Hoyle.

[Hawkeye 72]

syngyne, on 02 April 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

In a fusion reactor that heat is carried by a very, very small amount of mass, though, such that even if plasma containment were lost inside the reactor, you'd just end up with a fizzled reaction and a millimeter or two of vaporized surface material in the reactor vessel.

Very true, but you still have to deliver/generate the energy necessary to begin the reaciton. No idea how a mech does this, but I do not doubt there are heat consequences involved.

The problem with applying science to fiction is eventually the science portion disappears and we are left to assume the system works so there can be any fiction. When this happens details into these processes disappear. This is problematic when we discuss how something will behave "realistically" for a medium such as a video game.

[Yeach]

Strum Wealh, on 01 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

A turn is specifically defined as representing a 10-second period (Total Warfare, pg. 36).
The same paragraph also specifies that one hex represents an area that is 30 meters across.

We know that one standard Heat Sink would (canonically) dissipate one unit of heat during one turn (10 second period), representing a dissipation rate of 0.1 units of heat per second.
Likewise, one Double Heat Sink would (canonically) dissipate heat at a rate of 0.2 units of heat per second.

'Mechs come with 10 HS or 10 DHS as standard equipment, representing the ability to dissipate up to 1.0 units of heat per second (standard HS) or 2.0 units of heat per second (DHS) as a base value that can be increased as the number of installed Heat Sinks increases.

Another useful example in this case would be the Supernova.
It has 26 Double Heat Sinks installed; it would have an overall dissipation rate of 5.2 units of heat per second.
If the Supernova were to fire its six ER Large Lasers together while standing still, it would generate 72 units of heat (12 per ERLL) instantly.
It should take the Supernova's 26 DHSs about 13.85 seconds to completely dissipate all of the heat generated by that six-ERLL firing.

Your thoughts?

My question is what happens when the Supernova hits that 72 units of heat (which is greater than the 50 heatscale)?

[syngyne]

Hawkeye 72, on 02 April 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Very true, but you still have to deliver/generate the energy necessary to begin the reaciton. No idea how a mech does this, but I do not doubt there are heat consequences involved.

The problem with applying science to fiction is eventually the science portion disappears and we are left to assume the system works so there can be any fiction. When this happens details into these processes disappear. This is problematic when we discuss how something will behave "realistically" for a medium such as a video game.

Yeah, at some point you just have to go "it's like this because it makes the game interesting."

[Siilk]

Yeach, on 02 April 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

My question is what happens when the Supernova hits that 72 units of heat (which is greater than the 50 heatscale)?

A lot of bad stuff, up to reactor meltdown AFAIR.

[Ulric Kell]

I don't need heat as realistic as the books per say but I would love for it to be implemented in a way where there are serious consequences for doing foolish things with lots of heat centered weapons (like alpha striking with several large lasers or PPCs).

I have no idea how to do that but that's what I want damnit!

[Swiftfire]

Heat will also have consequences in mech design. More heat sinks or an extra weapon. A good pilot will have to balance the weapon load with the heat output.

One of my tactics in the previous games is to use water to cool off whenever it was available. Sticking close to a shoreline and dunking in water helped to keep my mech cool. It's not always applicable, but in the right situations it can really make a difference.

[palebear]

I've always had this mad idea (since they announced that there would be urban battles) of kicking over a fire hydrant and firing energy weapons from a rapidly increasing cloud of steam...
/endGeekgasm

[Kael Tropheus]

Tabletop wise, that Supernova would only end the turn with 24 heat since the heat dissipation phase happens before the end of the turn. In game not sure how they will pull it off. TT that pilot has the following effects to deal with:
+4 to fire REEEALLY bad odds of hitting since a target number of 8-9 is pretty common. Really no point in firing the next turn. MWO- extremely blurry vision, major target reticule issues.

Better than 50/50 chance of ammo exploding-pretty much the worse thing that can happen, especially if you do not have CASE, then you only lose the body part that holds the ammo.

Slighty lower than 50/50 chance of shutting down.

-4 movement points. Major nerf on a medium mech that isnt too fast in the first place.

Yeah firing with all weapons is bad....