101 replies to this topic

[AdiY]

I rather suggest to go with 75 to 100 ton mechs that I never seen before in Mechwarrior .

[Black Rhino]

There are a huge number of heavy 'mechs that are not being mentioned. I hope that eventually the ugly step-children..<cough> Champion <cough> Flashman <cough> <cough> show up eventually. Somehow, jumping into an available 'mech rather than one that is personalized and popular seems like a challenge that I would like, if not continuously, then sporadically.

[Deaths Touch]

Mattiator, on 03 April 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

This problem is precisely why we need to bring back the Age Of War-era heavies. Say a Star League cache was found, or a small company is doing a limited run for 'collectors'. The following would be perfect for filling out the Heavy class with 'Mechs without having to dip into the Unseen quagmire.

BKX-7K Battleaxe: 2x PPC, 2x LRM-5, 1x SRM-6. Similar to a Warhammer, but instead of the 2 Medium lasers, 2 Small lasers, and 2 Machine Guns, you get LRM-5s. Plus it's got Jump Jets!

KSC-3I Koschei: 1x AC/10, 2x Medium Lasers. Something for the Capellans to get excited about. Fast for a heavy and 12 tons of armor makes it a more dangerous design than the weapons would indicate.

HMH-3D Hammerhands: 2x AC/10, 2x Medium Lasers, 1x SRM-6. The 'Mech that made the Davions love their Autocannons. Basically an assault 'Mech with a speed of 54 kph.

CRS-6B Crossbow: 2x LRM-10s, 2x Medium Lasers, 1x PPC. No, I will not stop promoting this 'Mech in every thread! A beautiful mix of long-range firepower and speed, and it's one of the better-looking 'Mechs in my humble opinion.

I could see them doing something like this. My question would be how they give these things out and balance them correctly within the game. Giving out 'special' 'Mechs could break the game, and we don't want that to happen now do we?

....but I wouldn't mind a Hammerhands....

AdiY, on 03 April 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

I rather suggest to go with 75 to 100 ton mechs that I never seen before in Mechwarrior .

Now do you mean ones you haven't seen in a game or new to lore completely?

Edited by Deaths Touch, 03 April 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[Kell Pryde]

Back in the day my favorite heavy lance was a Thunderbolt, Orion, Warhammer, and Archer. All those mechs hit hard for their weight class.

[Mason Grimm]

Ok ok ok ok!!! You all know I love my Marauder right? But there is another Heavy I would take...

The Thunderbolt... TDR-5SS to be exact. The Grimm Reaper Company uses one of these in the TT games as part of a Fire Support Lance. It punches holes at distance while a pair of Archers and a Catapult crit-seek. It, combined with the Archers medium lasers and the Catapults medium lasers, can do medium/short range slugging.

Agile, Mobile, Versatile, Hostile!

[EDMW CSN]

And you are wondering where they got the inspiration for the Summoner.....

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 03 April 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Solis Obscuri, on 02 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

The Guillotine (Irian), downgraded Flashman (Defiance Industries), and downgraded Black Knight (Kong Interstellar) should all be fairly common...

Oh, and the LNC25-02 Lancelot (in continuous production since the 2nd Succession War) as well. It should be available. The CHP-2N Champion is also around, though I'm not sure how common it is.

Alex Wolfe, on 02 April 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Out of all those, only Orion (a design dating back to the Second Punic War) is 75 tons, three others 70... and the rest is more on the puny side, from the "barely heavy", AKA "chubby medium" category.

Interesting how, disregarding unseen, there seems to be a huge gap between 65t and assaults in that time period.

60 ton
Dragon/Grand Dragon
Champion
Quickdraw
Lancelot

65 ton
Axman
Catapult
JagerMech

70 ton
Caesar
Cataphract
Grasshopper
Guillotine

75 ton
Black Knight
Flashman
Orion

That's 14 commonly available designs between mediums and assaults. Of them, three are fast skirmishers, four are primarily ranged direct/indirect fire support, one is a specialized close-combat unit, and 6 are more generalist designs suitable for a variety of combat roles. I don't see a gap here.

Oswin Aurelius, on 02 April 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Harmony Gold didn't flip out over the Mechwarrior: Reboot trailer.

Yes, they did...

[Thomas Hogarth]

Mattiator, on 03 April 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

This problem is precisely why we need to bring back the Age Of War-era heavies. Say a Star League cache was found, or a small company is doing a limited run for 'collectors'. The following would be perfect for filling out the Heavy class with 'Mechs without having to dip into the Unseen quagmire.

BKX-7K Battleaxe: 2x PPC, 2x LRM-5, 1x SRM-6. Similar to a Warhammer, but instead of the 2 Medium lasers, 2 Small lasers, and 2 Machine Guns, you get LRM-5s. Plus it's got Jump Jets!

KSC-3I Koschei: 1x AC/10, 2x Medium Lasers. Something for the Capellans to get excited about. Fast for a heavy and 12 tons of armor makes it a more dangerous design than the weapons would indicate.

HMH-3D Hammerhands: 2x AC/10, 2x Medium Lasers, 1x SRM-6. The 'Mech that made the Davions love their Autocannons. Basically an assault 'Mech with a speed of 54 kph.

CRS-6B Crossbow: 2x LRM-10s, 2x Medium Lasers, 1x PPC. No, I will not stop promoting this 'Mech in every thread! A beautiful mix of long-range firepower and speed, and it's one of the better-looking 'Mechs in my humble opinion.

Or, just say that the development continued, and the Marauder, Warhammer, Archer etc never happened. End result: Same stats, different art, different name.

Don't forget the FWL Hector, rumored to be the predecessor of the ol Maraudie.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Solis Obscuri, on 03 April 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

60 ton
Dragon/Grand Dragon
Champion
Quickdraw
Lancelot

65 ton
Axman
Catapult
JagerMech

70 ton
Caesar
Cataphract
Grasshopper
Guillotine

75 ton
Black Knight
Flashman
Orion

Out of your list, I've selected a few 'Mechs to share commonality numbers for by picking the faction that uses the design the most, and posting those numbers. If we were to calculate commonality in the entire Inner Sphere, these would appear much more rare than this method. Numbers are presented in a out of 1,000 format for easy comparison.

Champion has a commonality of 16 out of 1,000 heavies in St. Ives space,
Lancelot has a commonality of 11 out of 1,000 heavies in Kuritan space,
Axman is very recent construction - commonalities would be measured in "out of 10,000,"
Caesar is very recent construction - commonalities would be measured in "out of 10,000,"
Cataphract has a commonality of 18 out of 1,000 heavies in St. Ives space,
Guillotine has a commonality of 30 out of 1,000 heavies in FWL space,
Black Knight has a commonality of 7 out of 1,000 heavies in Federated Suns space,
Flashman has a commonality of 28 out of 1,000 heavies in Kuritan space.

Solis Obscuri, on 03 April 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

commonly available

You sure about that?

Contrast with the availability of Orions, with a commonality in FWL space of 161 out of 1,000 heavies.

Out of the remaining 'Mechs, I've removed what has been confirmed for MWO, leaving us with this selection.

Quickdraw
JagerMech
Grasshopper
Orion

A fine, common spread to be sure, but none of these replicate the capabilities of certain other designs.

[Tuborn]

Mims, on 02 April 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

ewww flashman, do not want! atleast make the first 75 ton the orion.

first 75 ton a thanatos in both configs. Second a Black Knight or what i call a Mad Cat.

[Mims]

Tuborn, on 03 April 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

first 75 ton a thanatos in both configs. Second a Black Knight or what i call a Mad Cat.

Thanatos is a 3067 mech, Madcat is clan, and Blackknight is rare. Choose again, you wont see 2 of them. The chance of having Blackknight at launch is low. now that we pretty much know the next 75t mech will be flashman.

[renegade mitchell]

Mims, on 02 April 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

If you take out. -clan -unseen & reseen -tech after 3050 you get heavies few people have seen before, heavies hardly mentioned, heavies not seen in previous mechwarriors. i believe this is a topic of great debate, and possible the hardest weight class to select chasis' for. We have the most notable heavies of the time period. Other than that Comstar has the monopoly on heavies. Seriously, how does this work? We buy over priced rare 300 year old models from comstar? I am assuming the price will be production price and not antique price... because like i said, comstar has all the heavies. i say this mostly because all the heavies in technical readout 3050 that aren't clan or unseen are (less than ideal). and ive still never heard of them. However i never heard of the comstar models, but they are way more Boss than faction heavies.

Heavies are rare as are assualts. You got to know, mediums and lights were the workhorse of any clan, Merc, IS house. Seeing heavies and assaults on the battlefield was rare.

Edited by Renegade Mitchell, 04 April 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Thomas Hogarth, on 03 April 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Out of your list, I've selected a few 'Mechs to share commonality numbers for by picking the faction that uses the design the most, and posting those numbers. If we were to calculate commonality in the entire Inner Sphere, these would appear much more rare than this method. Numbers are presented in a out of 1,000 format for easy comparison. Champion has a commonality of 16 out of 1,000 heavies in St. Ives space, Lancelot has a commonality of 11 out of 1,000 heavies in Kuritan space, Axman is very recent construction - commonalities would be measured in "out of 10,000," Caesar is very recent construction - commonalities would be measured in "out of 10,000," Cataphract has a commonality of 18 out of 1,000 heavies in St. Ives space, Guillotine has a commonality of 30 out of 1,000 heavies in FWL space, Black Knight has a commonality of 7 out of 1,000 heavies in Federated Suns space, Flashman has a commonality of 28 out of 1,000 heavies in Kuritan space.

You sure about that? Contrast with the availability of Orions, with a commonality in FWL space of 161 out of 1,000 heavies. Out of the remaining 'Mechs, I've removed what has been confirmed for MWO, leaving us with this selection. Quickdraw JagerMech Grasshopper Orion A fine, common spread to be sure, but none of these replicate the capabilities of certain other designs.

Per 3039 RATs, the FLS-7K Flashman has a commonality of 38 per 1000 in Lyran space, the Cataphract represents 64 per 1000 in Liao space (FedSuns have 28 per 1000), Draconis has 77 per 1000 Champions and 74 per 1000 Guillotines in their A-rated units (thanks again to Comstar, no doubt).

The Cataphract has an AV rating of 7 in the Capellan Confederation (5 in FedSuns), the Flashman has an AV rating of 6 in the Lyran Commonwealth, the Bombardier has an AV rating of 4 in the Combine and FWL (where it represent 12 per 1000 heavies), the Champion has an AV rating of 4 in both the CC and St. Ives, the Grasshopper has an AV rating of 6 across most factions, the Quickdraw has an AV rating of 7 for FWL FRR and Kurita (though just 5 Lyran, 4 for FedSuns, and 3 for Liao). The Lancelot has an AV rating of 4 for both the Combine and FRR. The Guillotine has an AV rating of 4 for every faction except the FWL, where it rates 6. The Orion has an AV rating of 5 for most factions except the FWL, where it rates 10. The Catapult is scarce outside of the Combine and CC, where it has an AV rating of 6. The Dragon has an AV rating of 10 in the Combine and FRR, but is mostly unavailable elsewhere. The Jagermech has an availability of 8 in Fedsuns, 6 in Liao, but almost unknown in other factions.

But I'm not seeing what the RATs have to do with the functionality of the designs, being as they were designed to facilitate rolling up 'mech units representative of each faction in TT, not in assigning 'mechs to players in a video game where Unseen designs are likely to be unavailable due to copyright issues. There are canonical heavy 'mechs available that fulfill about every conceivable role, which are not Unseen, not post-3060, not Clan designs, not "unheard-of" by BT players, and many of which have been included in prior MW games (the Orion, Catapult, Black Knight, Bombardier, Jagermech, Quickdraw, Champion, and Dragon have all appeared in previous titles IIRC.)

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 04 April 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[flying1ace]

this is what i would like to see battling an atlas!! http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rifleman

[GrimJim]

[EDMW]CSN, on 03 April 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

And you are wondering where they got the inspiration for the Summoner.....

I always wondered if it was ideas about 'Mech evolution or lawsuits that inspired the first iconic OmniMechs.

Mad Cat = Marauder + Catapult
Vulture = Rifleman + Archer
Summoner = Thunderbolt + Crusader (check the original hips!)
Loki = Warhammer + Mararuder

I always chuckle when ppl slam on the "unseen" saying they prefer the modern post-3050 era 'Mechs. In a way they are still lovin' on the Macross/Dougram classics. Testament to Studio Nue (et al.) designs.

[Seabear]

I like the Lancelot originally a Star League mech but in production ever since. Even as a downgraded version it still has considerable use. The downgraded version functions as well as the Rifleman which is slower and has less armor.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Solis Obscuri, on 04 April 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

(the Orion, Catapult, Black Knight, Bombardier, Jagermech, Quickdraw, Champion, and Dragon have all appeared in previous titles IIRC.)

As a note, not one of those, even the rare ComStar gifts, can replicate what a Warhammer or Marauder can do. Sure, you've got some chassis with twin long-range weapons and support armaments, but PPCs are point damage. There's a world of difference between an LRM-20 and a PPC damage-wise. Large lasers are medium-range weapons, and definitely fall sort of PPCs in damage delivery.

Frankly, I'm not really sure what the disconnect is. The reseen should be 100% fine to use, unless we're not being told something. But if that is the case, just drag out the Battleaxe and Hector - predecessors of the Warhammer and Marauder, respectively - give them Warhammer and Marauder stats and pretend they continued in development while the WHM and MAD never got produced. Yeah, it kind of takes a dump on canon, but the end result is we get the WHM and MAD stats with different art and a different name.

People that don't know the lore won't know any different, and people that do know the lore will know the controversy that surrounds the WHM and MAD. Therefore, they will be able to figure out what happened and will smirk at PGIs cleverness.

[DeformedSlowest]

Ghost0405, on 02 April 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

i go for the 65t Thunderbolt or the not so popular 60t ostroc/ostsol

I'm with you...GIMME ME THUNDERBOLT PLEASE!

[Kudzu]

Thomas Hogarth, on 05 April 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

As a note, not one of those, even the rare ComStar gifts, can replicate what a Warhammer or Marauder can do. Sure, you've got some chassis with twin long-range weapons and support armaments, but PPCs are point damage. There's a world of difference between an LRM-20 and a PPC damage-wise. Large lasers are medium-range weapons, and definitely fall sort of PPCs in damage delivery.

The Thug says "Hi".
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thug

[McDuff]

Kell Pryde, on 03 April 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Back in the day my favorite heavy lance was a Thunderbolt, Orion, Warhammer, and Archer. All those mechs hit hard for their weight class.

I absolutely agree. I just hope that the unseen will be available in game!!