68 replies to this topic

[MaddMaxx]

Requital, on 03 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

*shrug* doesn't bother me at all...I am ambidextrous. I shoot with my right or left. I have driven cars with right or left hand drive, and they have right hand drive in more countries than just Europe...I suppose I could list studies and statistics for you on how many people are right handed, and how much of the world is set up for right handed or left handed use, but what is the point? No matter if you are a righty or lefty, the point is the majority is right handed, there are still plenty of people right handed, and most left handed people have learned to adapt. I would not expect that to change in a fictional future where parts of the government, society, and technology has actually backpedaled from where we are today.

Possible? yes...likely? No. That is why mech's are not mirrored in BT lore.

EDIT: Why is this all an issue anyway? there is a mechlab, you can change weapons locations...unless it is on a hunchback, ect. Even then, other than for aesthetics, who cares? I haven't seen many drops in open servers of league matches where people ran in formation, that's the easiest way to get yourself killed.

The OP was interesting in its thought, but as most of these post types do, they quickly degrade into some form of ******* match between the hard done by and the have nots. I did not know that Left handed people were so hard done by. I will go and give my wife a big "Left handed HUG" when I get home.

As for the BT Mechs and their apparent RH load out bias, perhaps the designers of the day were mostly RH folks. Hard to know really.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 03 April 2012 - 09:14 AM.

[VarietyOfCells]

Hmm, fair enough. Opposite sides of an alley I can see mirroring being useful for. And who knows, it might already be supported. We'll find out tomorrow.

[Requital]

MaddMaxx, on 03 April 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

The OP was interesting in its thought, but as most of these post types do, they quickly degrade into some form of ******* match between the hard done by and the have nots. I did not know that Left handed people were so hard done by. I will go and give my wife a big "Left handed HUG" when I get home.

As for the BT Mechs and their apparent RH load out bias, perhaps the designers of the day were mostly RH folks. Hard to know really.

uh, it seems you are the one seeking discrimination. I am left eye dominant, I should have been left handed...I learned to use my right also because it is useful for many things around me because there are fewer things set up for left handed use. I am not trying to hate on your wife for being left handed, so stop reading into things. Just because I don't think battletech should be re-written so a person can feel special looking out the left side of a video games cockpit doesn't mean I hate myself or others for preferring to use the left hand...it means I don't want special treatment and have adapted to hot shells sometimes hitting my arm if I choose to use my left hand.

So as far as keeping the post from degrading have and have nots, that would be another reason why keeping somewhat in line with lore is a great idea, because then the devs can just say "that's what it says in the books". Back on topic, I still think it would not be feasible in the games current time setting because of the work required to swap a weapon from one side to the other, and I still don't see why that matters, because it offers no real tactical advantage...this game does not have crosshairs, it has a HUD. Anyone filing in formation will find out what the armies in the late 1800's found out...lines of soldiers(or in this case, mechs) advancing against bullets in open ground at the same speed and in a straight path are prone to lead poisoning.

[Stone Profit]

I wouldnt hold my breath for "mirriored" versions of mech, as that would require new modelsfor every mech that replicate the capabilities of said mechs

[Garth Erlam]

MaddMaxx, on 03 April 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Then import a Left handed car from Europe if it bothers you that much. Rifle ejection system bias? really... So you mention 2 items and the world is RH biased still. Wowzers.

As someone with left-handed kin:
Scissors are right handed; Cars are (almost always) right-handed; Almost every assault rifle ever built is right-handed; all computer defaults are right handed; default FPS controls are right handed (try WASDing with a mouse to the left of your keyboard); can-openers; 90% of guitars; virtually all tools above a screwdriver (chainsaw; drill; etc); and so on.

Take heart though, lefties - almost every major warrior figure in martial societies has been left-handed.

[damage]

Yeah it makes sense in theory - and the novels even talked about mapping over mirrored controls, but actually mirroring a Mech's build is a big rebuild. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Dihm]

Garth Erlam, on 03 April 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

Take heart though, lefties - almost every major warrior figure in martial societies has been left-handed.

That's cause they cheated and made a pact with the debil (hence why they are lefties in the first place).

[Aegis Kleais]

Dihm, on 03 April 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

That's cause they cheated and made a pact with the debil (hence why they are lefties in the first place).

!!!



GET HIM MY MINIONS!! Drag his worthless soul into the depths of the abyss! mwa.... mwa ha... MWA HA HA HA HAH!!!




I mean...er...... Good point!

[Trevnor]

Who's Debil? I made no such pact with this person....

[Dihm]

Lt Trevnor, on 03 April 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Who's Debil? I made no such pact with this person....

[empath]

Garth Erlam, on 03 April 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

As someone with left-handed kin:
Scissors are right handed; Cars are (almost always) right-handed; Almost every assault rifle ever built is right-handed; all computer defaults are right handed; default FPS controls are right handed (try WASDing with a mouse to the left of your keyboard); can-openers; 90% of guitars; virtually all tools above a screwdriver (chainsaw; drill; etc); and so on.

Take heart though, lefties - almost every major warrior figure in martial societies has been left-handed.

Semi-auto handguns typically have the ejection port on the right side, which means if you fire it with your left hand, you get a hot casing plopped down your shirt.

Heck, even the LANGUAGE is biased against 'sinistre': "a left-handed remark"

I grew up a bit of a screwed-up southpaw, I'm left HAND dominant, but I'm right-EYE dominant - I learned to fire with my right hand, and when I learned to fence, the instructor just started teaching me right-handed without asking; I'd since become ambidextrous with a blade (still sucked with either hand, but at least it was equal )

...and my handedness never influcenced how I played any of the MechWarrior games.

Yes, the design of the chassis did (that Phoenix Hawk will creep around the hill counterclockwise to let its large laser take aim more quickly).

And as interesting as this sounds to have 'mirror 'Mechs', it doesn't really become viable until OmniMech technology comes into play, because any given chassis is purpose-built right down to the internal structure being assembled a specific manner to handle the asymetrical loads and stresses; it's not just an easy 'after market mod' to take that PPC off the Awesome's right hand and put it on the left - the whole torso is designed to account for more weight on the right side.

As such, to simply get a 'left-handed Awesome', you're going to have to remember that the factory assembly line that builds it will have to be retooled and start production all over...or you'll have to devote TWO of your assembly lines to building essentially the same chassis.

Not forgetting that while there's been somewhat of a 'renaissance' of technology and industry between the lull at the 'end' of the Third Succession War and the Clam Invasion, what with the Helm GDL core being distributed, and relative peace permitting rebuilding, still a fair chunk of factions' and merc companies' TO&E consist of old, existing vehicles that can't just be 'sent back in for warranty service' (in some cases the factory that built a specific 'Mech doesn't exist anymore, nor are any of the engineers who designed it still alive)


Again, interesting idea, and it may prove fascinating once we get the Avatar and similar showing up in DCMS rosters.

As for "handedness affects strategy regarding cover, etc.", yeah, it DOES. But you know what? If there's no easy approach for a 'right-handed' 'Mech...why not try a left-handed design, or...gee wilikers - maybe one of the many symmetrical chasses? No need to complicate the dev's work just to provide a solution we already have solutions for.



(Oh, and can I just take a moment to say that I'm impressed that my recessive gene is growing throughout the populace? When I was a kid, I was told that left-handers made up 10% of the population, not fifteen. )

[Insidious Johnson]

What about ambidexterous mechs? Hhhm? Well? What difference does it make!!! Release beta already!!! The forum is starting to resemble a thread zombie apocolypse and multiple thread retreads. People are really reaching for topics these days and it has become painfully apparent that many folks NEED to shoot the people who NEED to be shot.

[empath]

No, please! PGI; disregard the above and TAKE YOUR TIME; I'll wait beyond whatever that wingnut radio-pundit thinks Judgement Day is going to be this time for you to get the game done RIGHT.

I *will* agree that we as a community are starting to...well, 'stew' a bit long, but however that waters us out, it still means that what we get to play will be all the better.

[Trevnor]

empath, on 03 April 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Semi-auto handguns typically have the ejection port on the right side, which means if you fire it with your left hand, you get a hot casing plopped down your shirt.

I gotta ask, how the heck are you shooting your pistols? Any pistol I've ever shot has been held at arms length, center of my body mass.... The gun is in the same position for left-handers and right handers, the only difference being if it's the left or right hand on the trigger... LOL I'm just curious.

[Elizander]

I'd like the ability to mirror my mech. I am left handed and I always prefer to have my main weapon available on the left side of my character/robot/whatever.

[Deaths Touch]

Lt Trevnor, on 04 April 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

I gotta ask, how the heck are you shooting your pistols? Any pistol I've ever shot has been held at arms length, center of my body mass.... The gun is in the same position for left-handers and right handers, the only difference being if it's the left or right hand on the trigger... LOL I'm just curious.

I'm thinking that it would hit his forearm and burn that. Just having cloth there would be a good precaution as a lefty firing a righty gun.

[Trevnor]

Deaths Touch, on 05 April 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

I'm thinking that it would hit his forearm and burn that. Just having cloth there would be a good precaution as a lefty firing a righty gun.

Well, that would be the same for a right handed person as well.


The only difference between this right handed person shooting and a lefty is the hands switch positions....

[Deaths Touch]

Lt Trevnor, on 05 April 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

Well, that would be the same for a right handed person as well.


The only difference between this right handed person shooting and a lefty is the hands switch positions....

Good point. Looks like I need more coffee this morning.

[Famous]

There are some tactical advantages of mirroring that haven't been brought up yet, namely the effect of torso twist on weapon aiming. This may seem like a minor thing, but as another poster pointed out even slight advantages can be huge when everyone is very skilled.

Take the Hunchback for example, given the choice I would approach the mech from his left. He has to turn further to put the AC on m, giving me those precious seconds to cripple him first. If he's mirrored and I go in assuming he's a normal Hunch then I'm in for a big surprise.

Even if it is limited to arm mounted weaponry the devs have already said that the arms will track faster than the torso, so having a mirrored mech that favors left lets the pilot guard the left flank more effectively.

[MaddMaxx]

Garth Erlam, on 03 April 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

As someone with left-handed kin:
Scissors are right handed; Cars are (almost always) right-handed; Almost every assault rifle ever built is right-handed; all computer defaults are right handed; default FPS controls are right handed (try WASDing with a mouse to the left of your keyboard); can-openers; 90% of guitars; virtually all tools above a screwdriver (chainsaw; drill; etc); and so on.

Take heart though, lefties - almost every major warrior figure in martial societies has been left-handed.

And as I noted. You can BUY Left hand versions of pretty much all that stuff. My House is full of Left handed stuff. So the hard done by gambit is moot. (an Assault rifle may be a bit tougher in Canada though)

Edited by MaddMaxx, 05 April 2012 - 01:35 PM.