23 replies to this topic

[Yeach]

A question I've asked before but would like to have more opinions on.
And a focused should lore be the law discussion (somewhat)

In Battletech mech movement is dictated by how many hexes a mech can walk in a single turn or movement points (MP). (A hex equals 30m and a turn is 10 secs; 1 MP = 10.8 kph)
The running speed of a mech is calculated by the walking speed multiplied by 1.5 (150% of walking speed)
Mechs with an odd-numbered walking speed end up with running speed that ends up ending in .5. The Battletech rules allow this number to be rounded up to the next whole number.

A 60-ton Dragon (with a Vlar 300 engine) can walk at 5 MP which equates to 7.5 run MP (81 kph).
In the TT board-game where there is no 0.5 MP, this gets rounded to 8 run MP (86 kph).

Should MWO stick to the canon 8 MP run speed or the non-approximated value of 7.5 MP?

Note:
Mechwarrior3 used the non-approximated values when calculating the run speed.
Also if walk/run canon values are retained then there could be less engines choices; ie you are dictating by the Battletech arbitrary multiples of 10.8 kph rather than the engine ratings / tonnage ratings. see this thread

[BarHaid]

This is one of those instances where the TT abstraction needs to give way to the physics engine of the video game. I'd even go so far as to give speed boosts if you built your mech a few tons shy of its target weight. Or even 1-2% acceleration differences for different leg styles; i.e. humanoid vs chicken-leg. Let's open up that can of worms!

[That Guy]

with a games ability to crunch more complex numbers more quickly and efficiently than some geeks standing around a gaming table, definitely give each mech a little more individuality when it comes to movement speed

[Damocles]

That Guy, on 02 April 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

with a games ability to crunch more complex numbers more quickly and efficiently than some geeks standing around a gaming table, definitely give each mech a little more individuality when it comes to movement speed

Yeah! Death to nerds!

[firestorm119]

As that the 86 kph is merely a rounding "error", I would suggest that following the spirit of the rule (1.5x) would take precedence and therefore be equally 'canonical'.

[Slepnir]

I go with what the TRO says, remembering that a light show and big explosions look better on screen or in game than the actual physics

[El Loco]

BarHaid, on 02 April 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

This is one of those instances where the TT abstraction needs to give way to the physics engine of the video game. I'd even go so far as to give speed boosts if you built your mech a few tons shy of its target weight. Or even 1-2% acceleration differences for different leg styles; i.e. humanoid vs chicken-leg. Let's open up that can of worms!

I like your ideas.

The construction rule in the TT states that running speed equals 1.5x walking speed... and it is only because there are no half hexes in the TT that we have the rounded numbers. There is no conflict with canon/lore here... just the limitations of a board game. Last time I checked the gameplay video there were no hexes, therefore we don't need the rounded numbers.

[Stormwolf]

Slepnir, on 03 April 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

I go with what the TRO says, remembering that a light show and big explosions look better on screen or in game than the actual physics

Same here.

[Soviet Alex]

5 kph difference? Who cares? The devs could implement either or neither & 99% of us wouldn't notice. As long as I can walk my Dragon backwards as fast as an Atlas runs forward, that's all I need.

[Dihm]

BarHaid, on 02 April 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

This is one of those instances where the TT abstraction needs to give way to the physics engine of the video game. I'd even go so far as to give speed boosts if you built your mech a few tons shy of its target weight. Or even 1-2% acceleration differences for different leg styles; i.e. humanoid vs chicken-leg. Let's open up that can of worms!

Amen, no more free [faster] rides!

[T0RC4ED]

TRO 3025 has cruising speed set as 53.75 km/h and max speed set as 86 km/h. So im going with that until the devs say otherwise.

[CCC Dober]

Applying cunning ork logic: you just paint it red and it's faster haha

Seriously, it won't matter all that much, because even 80 klicks is bloody fast for a heavy Mech any way you look at it. What may be even more interesting is the ability to maintain or build up that speed in rough or 'sticky' terrain, not to mention agility. Has there been any official word on that so far?

[Mason Grimm]

To the op...

[Sporkosophy]

Am I allowed to say too fast? Where's the armor/guns!

[Vtack]

Mason Grimm, on 03 April 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

To the op...

Came here to post this, but got beat to the punch. So I'll post this



/also my dragon will be called: "the bus that couldn't slow down"

[Monky]

I think Lore should be used as a strong guiding influence, however when and where we have opprtunities to make improvements we definitely should. Leaving archaic systems intended/forced by a tabletop game in play in a game environment that has much more flexibility is simply a sign of lazy game-making. Use the engine to its extent - and what's more this is nothing new, every mechwarrior game has had to take liberties with the TT rules before in an effort to make the transition from table top hex and turn based mech strategy game to real time first person mech combat sim.

Above all just stay true to the spirit of the rules, bend them where necessary, and if you have to break one come up with a good work around and explanation.

As for this particular scenario, it's obviously an 'engine limitation' of the TT game that they couldn't do half hexes. 1.5x speed is the spirit of the rule, that's what it should get.

[trycksh0t]

Another issue with using the TT 30m hexes to calculate movement speed is there is no definitive starting/ending point. A hexagon that stretches 30m from one side to the opposite side constitutes an area of roughly 779.4 m², and the 'Mech in question could be anywhere within that area. Better to just stick with the TRO numbers, 86.4kph in this case.

[Morashtak]

Let the TT rules be a guide then hand it over to the cpu - the devs can factor in top speed and acceleration based on engine size vs total mech tonnage. As in another post, one wouldn't even have to use a "even number" engine anymore (ex. 300 rating engine in a 50tonner for a 6/9). Use whatever sized engine you have tonnage allocated for and let the 1's & 0's handle the rest.

Also, heat generated a given speed can be based on x points at a x speed using the TT rules as a base.

Will need to be balanced but pretty sure this has already been well thought out.

[Zakatak]

Should have went with Grand Dragon.

97.2kph is way cooler!

[Saint of Sinners]

Depends on how many villagers he ate...

Does an extra 5 mph really matter? As long as it moves at the same pace as other mech that move 5/8 in the tabletop game I don't really care.