257 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Ehrithane, on 02 November 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

Except here, if you are on a large enough target, it's closer to 38-40. Even on smaller targets, only 2-4 missiles will miss if they are running. I pilot a cicada and at 129 kph, I can only hope to outrun LRMs if I'm strafing at medium range, even then a few almost always hit, so saying you can just outrun them simply isn't accurate, you CAN use cover, but you're rolling the proverbial dice on wether or not those LRMs are actually going to be STOPPED by that cover.

Then take into account if someone is wasting an assault slot for the ever popular LRM atas boat.... It doesn't fire all 20 missiles at once, it fires 5 at a time, which increase both its accuracy AND lower its damage spread, while allowing it to fire continuously, nullifying the cooldown numbers you've posted.....


Oh, and lets not forget, you can just sit in your base, never actually move and barely move your torso and top the damage and kill charts every time.



How exactly weren't they overpowered again?



Oh that's right...... cause you have to have a third party target to hit with them at max range? Man LRMs suck.....

The problem isn't, "how much fun do we get to keep having blowing up newbies in our LRM boats!!!!?" The problem is, how long do you think newbies will honestly stick around when they are getting destroyed in seconds from targets they never saw, and who used no skill whatsoever to kill them? (anyone claiming the skill lies in the LRM boat and NOT the spotter is just delusional)

The problem isn't the amount of damage, the problem is how tight is the cone of fire for LRM hits. LRMs could be changed in a number of ways that can change the per missile damage or keep it and nerf the accuracy of a flight of Missiles. Personally I would not like it, I have lots of matchs where my Frame rate is abismal, and LRMs keep me a viable part of my team even with rates as slow as 7-9 per second. No other weapon gives me that.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 November 2012 - 06:22 AM.

[Wispsy]

you are right, i have never scored above 1000dmg with the 4fps bug in anything but an lrm boat, that is one reason to keep them as they are.

[IamSeanConnery]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 November 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

The problem isn't the amount of damage, the problem is how tight is the cone of fire for LRM hits. LRMs could be changed in a number of ways that can change the per missile damage or keep it and nerf the accuracy of a flight of Missiles. Personally I would not like it, I have lots of matchs where my Frame rate is abismal, and LRMs keep me a viable part of my team even with rates as slow as 7-9 per second. No other weapon gives me that.

I've heard this argument from multiple people with bad frame rates. I'm sorry you experience them. However, I don't think LRMs should be a weapon in which can put you on an even playing field so to speak without the effort behind it. This isn't the special olympics here.

Let's focus on having the dev's fix the frame rates to scale better for worse systems or bugs that cause them. Secondarily, if you are playing on a very old system under specs then there is nothing to offer. Such is the problem of new games. I know some people who are playing on dual cores with their 8800GTS'. I apologize for sounding cruel but welcome to 2012. Your grandma wants her PC back. On the other side of that, it's up to the devs to do everything in their power to expand the breadth of playable systems to the maximum capability the engine and system will allow. Outside of that, LRMs are not an acceptable answer to that in my opinion.

Edit1: In fact, because they are so usable with people having the 4fps bug shows how OP they are

Edited by Platinum Booger, 02 November 2012 - 06:33 AM.

[mark]

LRMs are currently on several of the trial mechs so there are lots of LRMs in matches. None of the trial mechs have AMS so there are less countermeasures being used. The lrm buff modules, narc and tag have both been implemented, but the second lrm counter, ECM hasn't. This is why lrm may seem a problem currently to some, but once trial mechs change our are less common and ECM is implemented they won't be.

[Myrenous]

They are not even close to being OP, the biggest thing most people dont realize is that they are usually getting bombed by more then one mech making if feel like a single mech is dominating them.

But some collision mechanics need to be addressed right now there are a lot of buildings that missiles can pass throught, the entire refinery on the hot map is a great example.

[Joseph Mallan]

Platinum, no offense taken, for my missiles to do their job I have to keep lock on a Jenner doing 130-140 Kph for the flight time it takes to reach 980M it's called fire support for a reason.

I am using a fairly new Asus Laptop yes the Processor is understrength but I get by, and I get kills. At 4 frames per second I just die.

We will just have to agree to disagree, And be careful... My Granma died in the 80s, she has the left ear of god, and loved me very much . Don't make light of of the connections I have... you could end up with a worse frame rate that I

[IamSeanConnery]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 November 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

Platinum, no offense taken, for my missiles to do their job I have to keep lock on a Jenner doing 130-140 Kph for the flight time it takes to reach 980M it's called fire support for a reason.

I am using a fairly new Asus Laptop yes the Processor is understrength but I get by, and I get kills. At 4 frames per second I just die.

We will just have to agree to disagree, And be careful... My Granma died in the 80s, she has the left ear of god, and loved me very much . Don't make light of of the connections I have... you could end up with a worse frame rate that I

Since fast lights usually only represent 25% of targets on a high average I believe your argument is of a minority. The other 75% of targets are not quite that difficult. Don't mistake me as saying LRMs take no skill- they do. But less skill than lasers or even moreso easier than ballistics. I enjoy a game of tactics AND skill. I just believe LRMs detract from the skill part. Edit: In their current form.

Agreed. This 4fps bug is not acceptable. I'm glad you can play though until they fix it!

Haha. My grandma never owned a computer (rest her soul). Making light is the only thing that keeps "discussions" palatable.

We will most definitely agree to disagree. When it comes down to wanting a game to feel and play a certain way, it's all opinion and personal experience. Logic is logic, however. So I make sure to point that out and likewise expect others to point out my own. It's natural to do so.

Edited by Platinum Booger, 02 November 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[wanderer]

Ehrithane, on 02 November 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

The section you wanted to hit? which section was that exactly when you were halfway across the map? This isn't a legitimate argument as it does do damage over the whole mech, very effectively shredding their armor with minimal effort or ammo consumption. For a FRACTION of a ton, 2 salvos, you can kill a light mech in seconds, strip a medium of all armor, or even tear a component off of a heavy. No other weapon offers this advantage up, even the dreaded gausscat requires line of sight, quick reflexes and a steady hand to kill someone, the LRM literally just requires you to be sitting there and push the fire button. You could probably even just write a macro and not even have to do that.

I kill a light with two salvos when it's standing still...if I'm firing 45+ missiles to target, maybe. Try more like -60-. That means "Hi, I'm an assault 'Mech or dedicated Catapult with the armor protection of tissue paper". Moving, two LRM salvos like that don't even kill a Trial Raven, barring TAG/NARC guiding it all in- and even then, you hope you get lucky.

Ditto for stripping a medium of all it's armor or taking a component off a heavy in two launches. I call BS, cause I've been the guy shooting you with LRMs for months and pretty much constantly up until OB- at which point I decided to test grinding a bit and piloted a Trial Awesome and shot LRMs at you anyway.

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Also, the majority of missiles hit the target in its largest hitbox location, so it IS dealing damage unevenly across the mech, not equally to a side torso and arm.... a hunchback will take MUCH more of the damage to its CT than a centurion would.

Yet, a good portion of my LRM damage to a virgin Hunchback from, say a 30-missile shot shows damage scattered across the entire 'Mech. Yeah, that salvo is centered on the CT, but you end up with missiles hitting it across the entire thing. Try it some time, a good chunk of damage is wasted on other parts you'd never have fired at with a laser or ballistic.

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Also, if this were "a good rule of thumb" would LRM boats be doing 1600 damage per fight while nothing else gets close to them? I don't think so.

1600 damage is extraordinary even FOR an LRM boat. In fact, it's the highest damage count I've seen from one, ever. And you know what? If any other weapon type did that kind of damage, they couldn't GET to that total if they were actually aiming- because even 800 points of focused damage would core it's way clean through four different Atlai in the process. The reason LRM boats have a higher damage count is simple- they spread that damage much, MUCH more evenly across their targets. If they didn't, the target would die from the damage simply from lack of having the capacity to absorb it in a smaller area. Normally, on a good game? You're happy as an LRM carrier to see your damage total just barely crossing the 1000 damage mark- which is about 500 damage for your normal direct-fire type. When you take a look at the damage listings, you see his team collectively dealt an immense amount of damage even without him- indicating the fight was nearly all heavily armored assaults- Awesomes and Atlai, in other words. Nothing smaller would have been able to actually be shot at that long without exploding first unless they were literally reducing every 'Mech to a CT with one leg attached before killing them.

He got great totals because he had huge damage sponges to shoot at who apparently didn't have the brains gawd gave a sand flea to get out of the way- and directed fire means that you kill a target before inflicting that much damage on it, assuming again you have any aim whatsoever, meaning weapons that actually point at a specific location will deal less damage in the process of killing something.

A great example of this is seeing how much of your 'Mech is left after being killed by an LRM barrage vs. someone simply shooting out your CT. Check the numbers before you repair- you'll see exactly how much LRM damage actually spreads out and mangles the target without killing it.

[SendMyRegards]

Stationary LRM boats make fantastic targets for my dual PPC + gauss Atlas. It's pretty fascinate to seem them run behind that cliff they're standing on when I begin to unload on them.

My team rolls LRM heavy teams. If you think LRMs are overpowered you should fit out a team and come play us in an organized drop. We'll show you how wrong you are.

[Korobug]

LRM's aren't that bad. You need to learn to utilize cover and proper movement tactics to avoid getting caught in the open. They are incredibly difficult to counter in a pug of inexperienced players I'll admit, they have a lower learning curve, but this doesn't mean nerfing them. In high level premades LRM's are an asset, but they're by no means a requirement to winning the game.

[Selena Kerensky]

I would say yeah, but then it's more or less the question, what can you do if your only "missile boat" is a Dragon and the rest packs direct LOS or short range weaponry only.....Or if the only Awesome or Catapult is AFK for the whole mission.......


What I would love to have, especially if you consider people playing only random groups, a short mission briefing chat before the game starts. But that's another matter.....

[Xigunder Blue]

Salient, on 29 October 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Now that the doors to MWO are opened to the world, what do you all think? Having a fun time getting pwned by LRMs 1m into the game? ... prolly not, i bet those LRMs seem... pretty OP. That's because, they are.

Respectfully disagree. Are long range snipers OP? Are high speed lights w/double armor OP? Players simply have to learn to deal with the various way death is delt out in a robotic combat game.

[Volthorne]

Please, don't bring "skill" into arguments concerning LRMs (this goes for everyone). Yes, we sit at the back, and wait for our team to obtain locks for us. Yes, we click a single button and barely have to aim (if at all). Does this make LRMs OP? Have you considered that:

• LRM platforms have little-to-no short range defenses
  
• Ammo is expensive as hell
  
• A dedicated LRM platform is only good for one job, whereas literally every other loadout can do pretty much everything else
  
• No other weapon system has a hard-counter that is non-environmental (AMS)

Edited by Volthorne, 02 November 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[SilentWolff]

El Penguin, on 30 October 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

LRMs are fine. Plus they will be even weaker once ECM comes in. Take cover, break locks, kill there scouts and you will be fine with them as well.

This.

[Jake Stark]

Calmon, on 29 October 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Well playing with 2x20LRM and 2x15LRM in my awesome I can say LRM is OP. I just made more than 1400 damage as a random without any TAG. DHS in arms help a lot. DHS in engine is not even working in moment!

I can say: its OP and I'm sure it got a nerf in near future.

Just to clarify: This was yesterday in before open beta reset. So with ASM all around. DHS is just too good for LRM boats even bugged like in moment (no engine DHS)

What is your Heat Efficiency? I am running same LRM setup and heat is a problem. I have only have two DHS.

[Ransack]

I'm guessing that people won't be happy until they can stand in a shower of LRM's and still Benny Hill the Jenner without fear.

Listen up people. LRMS are a weapon. Just like every other weapon, they are SUPPOSED to kill you. They will if you get hit by enough of them

Quit singing in the LRM rain, and you'll be fine.

[XvDraxvX]

72% of the population disagree with you? Thats ok just whine until someone pays attention to you!

Give it up "LRM'S are OP!" Crowd you loss

I hate to say it but "Scoreboard" (points up to the poll)

[Particle Man]

Ehrithane, on 01 November 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

It doesn't matter how well you know how to play, if half your pug team dies to LRMs, you aren't likely to come out on top.

like i said, learn to play. your Pugs need to learn to play or you need to learn to not play with PUGs. Using noobs that dont know how to play as an example as to why lrms are overpowered isnt really a good counter argument to my stating that once noobs learn to play, lrms wont be a problem. Because in non-pug games, they arent a problem.

i'm sorry if you insist on playing a team game solo. but nerfing the game for that reason isnt going to happen