60 replies to this topic

[Jason McComrade]

I dont know what you people think (and obviously those of you who are fast base cappers and easy credit goers will not agree to what Im going to write now) but base capture is actually killing all the mood of this game...

There are tons of reasons I can count that my point is actually valid. For example if we're goin by fluff in the BT universe, you can't just go to some planet atack them and then say to the enemy " Hey we capped your base! you lost!" they would answer you with some salvo of PPC, AC, LRM or whatever they have in their hands so this actually makes base capture obsolete...

and even in reality capturing a base doesnt mean that the fight is over, the base can be recaptured!...

some might disagree I see their points in this by saying "hey what else to do then? we want easy money! we dont want the fight we just wanna jockey on a fast mech, get behind the lines and capture base while other ppl try to have their fun and actually try to LIVE a Mech fight"

well to those of you I just can say ; there are millions of other games that allows you to do that... just dont ruin the Mechwarrior game please, we have waited for such thing about a decade till now! (ok we have played mechwarrior merchandise too but online is somethin else! and for those who're TT players it is more valuable than you can ever imagine!)

There still might be people who wants to capture a base... well I have a solution for that; Capturing some objective points in the game (like bases or other places of value) can give more strategic value to the game and those maps like the volcano place( I dont remember the map name now sorry you can correct me as you wish) wich is actually a huge map and where Mechs can capture base without even meeting each other. So capturing such places can give huge c-bill bonuses or other kind of bonuses (maybe loot or somethin like that) at the end of the game, so people consider to go and catch those places... That will actually prevent these LRM campers too... so they actually have to fight their way to the base.

There are actually tons of things I can suggest to the game.. like evacuation points in the game so that those who dont want to be annihilated can retreat to those points and exit the field. This way it opens another tactical playstyle to those ppl who dont want to get into shredding fights, or those who's fur is very valuable to them and dont want their paint get scratched =)

More? well like I said there are tons of ideas I have that can be included into this game but first of all Im imploring the game makers! please remove this base capture from the game the way it is now! It really kills all the mood from the game... sometimes the game just ends although were on the run to the enemy!

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

Wait until your last guy is an Atlas and the last enemy is an Jenner; And the Jenner just runs away from the Atlas. With Base Capture the Atlas can end the match. Without base capture you have to wait out the mission clock.

Base Capture gives you an objective and a purpose for fast moving light scouts. Previous mechwarrior games that were Team Death Match only turned into camp-fest waiting out the other team to come out of hiding.

[Apoc1138]

it can be annoying when you lose to a cap when you were otherwise winning... however it is part of the game at the moment and not advancing too far without having someone running sweeper / interceptor to protect your base is also part of the game

new game modes are coming over the next few weeks which you might enjoy more if the current 1 mode is not so your liking

hope this helps

[TheMightyWashburn]

Nope. This game mode is fine. There will be other game modes at some point. This allows for strategy and encourages defense.

[Calmon]

This

Eldragon, on 30 October 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Wait until your last guy is an Atlas and the last enemy is an Jenner; And the Jenner just runs away from the Atlas. With Base Capture the Atlas can end the match. Without base capture you have to wait out the mission clock.

Base Capture gives you an objective and a purpose for fast moving light scouts. Previous mechwarrior games that were Team Death Match only turned into camp-fest waiting out the other team to come out of hiding.

This.

In addition it gives the game (slightly) a bit more roles beside simple weapon use.

[Phantom Lamb]

Primarily, the speed cap is just boring. I don't blame people for doing it, but even the winners leave the game with a sense that the game was lacking. The maps are too big and heavies too slow to recover with PUGs.

A potential solution is to slow down the timer. Another would be to add second tier capture points - you can't cap the main base until you capture one of two outposts, for example.

[Congzilla]

Quote

For example if we're goin by fluff in the BT universe, you can't just go to some planet atack them and then say to the enemy " Hey we capped your base! you lost!"

Yes you can. There are several missions in the tract system that only require you to get within x number of hexes, scan the objective, and get off the map edge.

Edited by Congzilla, 30 October 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[Dark Severance]

Jason McComrade, on 30 October 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

For example if we're goin by fluff in the BT universe, you can't just go to some planet atack them and then say to the enemy " Hey we capped your base! you lost!"

Actually lore wise in the BT Universe, capturing strategic locations and certain areas (often just pieces of land) resulted in the battles being over.

Jason McComrade, on 30 October 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

and even in reality capturing a base doesnt mean that the fight is over, the base can be recaptured!...

It is an objective. You are fighting to not win a fight or a war, you are fighting to achieve objects. Objectives in war are many things and often something trivial, just look at history and where major battles have been fought (very few are actual places of any worth).

Jason McComrade, on 30 October 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

please remove this base capture from the game the way it is now! It really kills all the mood from the game... sometimes the game just ends although were on the run to the enemy!

Yes please remove anything that actual requires someone to think and work as a team. I mean if someone is capping your base and the only answer is "were on the run to the enemy" then you were caught with your pants down. There are 8 mechs, essentially 2 Lances in a drop for a team. That means one group can defend and one group can have point. Or don't go beyond your supply chain (ie: too far from base to respond to it being attacked). I mean I like to watch nothing but 8 mechs group completely together and walk in a straight line, paying no heed that usually there are 3 direct paths to each base... thereby ignoring the other 2 or the fact that it says "Base Being Capped" on the screen

[EDMW CSN]

Base capture gives new players a chance to scoring a slim victory.

[dal10]

Phantom Lamb, on 30 October 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

Primarily, the speed cap is just boring. I don't blame people for doing it, but even the winners leave the game with a sense that the game was lacking. The maps are too big and heavies too slow to recover with PUGs.

A potential solution is to slow down the timer. Another would be to add second tier capture points - you can't cap the main base until you capture one of two outposts, for example.

no, just no. that would be a disaster. you simply could not defend the outposts. If you tried to defend both you would lose 4 mechs plus the outpost to the 8 mechs they run at it with.

[Atlas3060]

Though I wouldn't mind a game setting where it is Last Man Standing, or Last team standing, I do think we should keep the base cap for some game types.

[AndyHill]

Many game modes need some kind of a focus for the action, someone already mentioned the Jenner vs Atlas last 'mech standing -match as a possible outcome. In WoT for example the base capping also has a real-life function, although probably unintentionally; armored warfare is based on fast break-through actions and if you allow your base to be capped you can consider it a broken line of defense and the enemy pushing through to destroy your support units and circle the combatants.

In Battletech the situation is a bit different, though, so it would probably be more suitable to have some kind of an objective to destroy in the base. I don't know if it would be good for gameplay or not, but this kind of an approach would result in making the slow, heavy 'mechs more useful in "capping", since although they would make it to the base slower than a scout, they would get the blowing stuff up -job done much faster.

[Jason McComrade]

Congzilla, on 30 October 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Yes you can. There are several missions in the tract system that only require you to get within x number of hexes, scan the objective, and get off the map edge.

Sorry but you cant... nowhere in the BT universe can you just drop to some planet with mechs (with assaults and all that! were talkin about 2 lances 8 mechs here for a scouting mission that kinda force is too slow and it will end with an disaster, and besides to drop on a planet with 2 lances you need 1 union class dropship or 2 of the dropships that was carrying 1 lance [forgot the name of that dropship now]) to just scan somewhere. To go on a scouting mission you have to drop in fast and get out fast... and in most cases such kinda scout missions are just given when the planetary defences are not threatening... so your point is obsolete...

[Angus McBeef]

Uhm, this is not the only planned game mode. More are coming. Base cap is not going anywhere. I'm being nice because OP has 2 posts and is obviously new and has no idea how many thousands of times this topic has been discussed.

[Jason McComrade]

Dark Severance, on 30 October 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Actually lore wise in the BT Universe, capturing strategic locations and certain areas (often just pieces of land) resulted in the battles being over.

Im very interested in that BT story where just some merc units or house units runs in to some planet and captures some strategic point and the war is over... all those books I have readed never mentioned such thing... indulge me please... I would like to read that book wich you mentioned...

Dark Severance, on 30 October 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

It is an objective. You are fighting to not win a fight or a war, you are fighting to achieve objects. Objectives in war are many things and often something trivial, just look at history and where major battles have been fought (very few are actual places of any worth).

An objective in war does mean you have to capture some point, or you have to hold some place. This is a problem for both sides of those who's warring, coz those who'se defendin are mostly bunkered in and those who'se the aggressors have to fight their way trough... in both cases its a blood bath and in any case this doesnt end with "hey we captured your flag/base now give up" coz in many cases that ***** who tells that gets some bullet between the eyes as answer. The only case to make 1 side give up is to surround them and MAKE them surrender.. or else they have to die. And so said, in the history you can see many battles that people are fightin to teeth and nail and die instead of surrendering. And I can tell you that coz I am a war veteran dude I have seen that many times.

Dark Severance, on 30 October 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Yes please remove anything that actual requires someone to think and work as a team. I mean if someone is capping your base and the only answer is "were on the run to the enemy" then you were caught with your pants down. There are 8 mechs, essentially 2 Lances in a drop for a team. That means one group can defend and one group can have point. Or don't go beyond your supply chain (ie: too far from base to respond to it being attacked). I mean I like to watch nothing but 8 mechs group completely together and walk in a straight line, paying no heed that usually there are 3 direct paths to each base... thereby ignoring the other 2 or the fact that it says "Base Being Capped" on the screen

Well the fact that I am not playin with any friends together (that means mostly solo) means I have to group up with ppl I dont even know. That results in the problem that people dont do whatever you tell them. So staying in the base and trying to defend it alone doesnt make actually any sense because mostly the counter party is comin at least with 2 mechs... (in rare occasions 1 mech) so there is actually no place to "think" and "work as a team" coz alltough youre "thinking" and telling the people that theyre gonna base rush so at least that there should be 2 mechs that defends theyre laughing their *** off and mostly there are even morons that tell you "you cant order us around this is a game relax" ok it might be a game Im quite aware of it but I would like to enjoy it instead of getting frustrated. Sooo my dear friend there is the question what are ya gonna do against people that join a game together and have voice chat and can coordinate and you just have a bunch of nobrainers that run with wiring weapons and scraming "WAAAAAAGH!!!!!"

[gregsolidus]

Buddy,I'll break this down for you.This has been discussed well over 20-50 times during the closed beta and was answered the same way every time: Stop being dumb and guard the base. It does not take a herculean effort for one member of the team to hang back a bit instead of sprinting off aimlessly to get stomped and chase away the inevitable Jenner who tries to capture your base.Its even easier when you all work together and actually stay near it. I now what I'm saying sounds like the fevered dreams of a mad man but you have to trust me,it just might work

Also: Without capture mechanics why play a light?

Edited by gregsolidus, 30 October 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[Jason McComrade]

gregsolidus, on 30 October 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Buddy,I'll break this down for you.This has been discussed well over 20-50 times during the closed beta and was answered the same way every time: Stop being dumb and guard the base. It does not take a herculean effort for one member of the team to hang back a bit instead of sprinting off aimlessly to get stomped and chase away the inevitable Jenner who tries to capture your base.Its even easier when you all work together and actually stay near it. I now what I'm saying sounds like the fevered dreams of a mad man but you have to trust me,it just might work

Also: Without capture mechanics why play a light?

I will answer from your last question up. Why playing light?... well the objective of the light mech is to fastly cover land and scout out units for assault/heavy troops in order to bombard or warn to be cautious. in the BT universe the job of an light mechhockey is one of the hardest ever to achieve, because their job is to "stay alive" AND "gather intelligence" so in this point of view you can see that light mechs in this game are "mostly" not used for this purpose...and those who do their reconnaissance job well theyre doin it pretty fine... have been bombarded out of nowhere many times coz some sprintin jenner was runnin around.

to the next argument; you said this has been discussed in closed beta many times... aye I know I am a closed beta player but that didnt changed my opinion to the fact.Guarding the base alone doesnt have any use coz it happened to me many times that the base often was assaulted by "multiple" mechs so my chance of survival is 0 as a lone player. To the matter of teamplay... well yeah as you see most ppl actually seems not to understand the sentence "stick together and dont try to be the hero"

Edited by Jason McComrade, 30 October 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[Lin Shai]

I know you're new here but just because your team isn't playing as a team, isn't communicating and coordinating, and doesn't understand the strategies involved in the game mode ... doesn't mean the game mode is broken.

The only way the enemy caps the base is if you let them.

Oh, and when that Jenner is on your base it's not actually there to cap it. It's there to split your team and let his friends decimate the ones that (correctly) don't chase the squirrel. Your team has lights, they need to perform their role.

gregsolidus, on 30 October 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Stop being dumb and guard the base.

Worst advice ever. You just (uselessly) left X tons at your base that isn't shooting at anything. Best way to lose.

You have lights. Their job is to haul back to base the second that message pops up. There is no reason to leave a mech at the base ever. (Unless of course your team isn't playing as a team ... usually a problem with PUGs. If that's the case, YMMV)

Edited by Lin Shai, 30 October 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[rythex]

Yep, it's lazy game mechanic and anti-fun. I had a game where I stayed back to defend since the rest of the team went off to die solo and I chased a raven or jenner away.. then I decided to stay there incase he came back since I can only run at <50km/hour in my trial mech. Then my team ******* and moans that I wasn't fighting with the group.. ok great..
So I said "F it" shut down and started waiting for the match to be over.. Then my team tells the other team "He's in sector E3" so then I suicided. This game sucks to be honest, it's only appealing to some nerds that like rolling noobs and solo queue players. Not sure how much great "beta" data PGI is going to get from premades violating noobs non-stop.

Lin Shai, on 30 October 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

I know you're new here but just because your team isn't playing as a team, isn't communicating and coordinating, and doesn't understand the strategies involved in the game mode ... doesn't mean the game mode is broken.

The only way the enemy caps the base is if you let them.

Oh, and when that Jenner is on your base it's not actually there to cap it. It's there to split your team and let his friends decimate the ones that (correctly) don't chase the squirrel. Your team has lights, they need to perform their role.



Worst advice ever. You just (uselessly) left X tons at your base that isn't shooting at anything. Best way to lose.

You have lights. Their job is to haul back to base the second that message pops up. There is no reason to leave a mech at the base ever. (Unless of course your team isn't playing as a team ... usually a problem with PUGs. If that's the case, YMMV)

Yes, he's not there to cap it.. yet the little life bar keeps going down. Stop making up ridiculous lame ******** excuses or justifications for lame strats used by premades against random queue people.

[Protection]

1) I began as a big critic of the base capture mode, but after the tournament and league games, I've come around to liking it. There is some actual tactical depth to it - if your team is too aggressive you risk being unable to defend, if you turtle up you sacrifice map control and position, if you split forces, you risk fighting an uneven battle. There's a lot of tradeoffs, and requires excellent team coordination and communication.

And like they all said, this is one game mode. There will eventually be more.

2) Do not at all listen to people telling you to "have one guy defend the base." I don't know if they realize, but letting your team go to fight a 7vs8 while an Atlas sits on the spawn is a terrible idea for so many reasons. Jenners and other fast mechs have a responsibility to respond to small base captures, and the tactical commander should be the one to make decisions about larger capture movements.