439 replies to this topic

[Fresh Meat]

very nice,i'm pleased

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

Dihm, on 04 April 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Hey we match! Yay us!

[Daneiel]

I am not so happy with the weapon swapping - > that give you a chance for radical change of the weapon ranges - example ->if you have AC/20 you can change it with Gauss Rifle - not acceptable , another example -> you have 2 medium lasers -> 1 large laser - again not acceptable . That weapon replacing give you a chance to remove some disadvantages from some chassis and make them better . Personally i don't wanna see Hunchback with Gauss Rifle or AS7-D with Gauss Rifle instead of AC/20 or swapped 4 ML for 2LL .

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

daneiel varna, on 04 April 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I am not so happy with the weapon swapping - > that give you a chance for radical change of the weapon ranges - example ->if you have AC/20 you can change it with Gauss Rifle - not acceptable , another example -> you have 2 medium lasers -> 1 large laser - again not acceptable . That weapon replacing give you a chance to remove some disadvantages from some chassis and make them better . Personally i don't wanna see Hunchback with Gauss Rifle or AS7-D with Gauss Rifle instead of AC/20 or swapped 4 ML for 2LL .

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but swapping an AC20 for a Guass was a very common practice when Gauss rifles were rediscovered. See: Victor, Atlas, Cyclops.

[Mchawkeye]

All sounds good to me, loving the hybrid system.

[Dihm]

daneiel varna, on 04 April 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I am not so happy with the weapon swapping - > that give you a chance for radical change of the weapon ranges - example ->if you have AC/20 you can change it with Gauss Rifle - not acceptable , another example -> you have 2 medium lasers -> 1 large laser - again not acceptable . That weapon replacing give you a chance to remove some disadvantages from some chassis and make them better . Personally i don't wanna see Hunchback with Gauss Rifle or AS7-D with Gauss Rifle instead of AC/20 or swapped 4 ML for 2LL .

I'm not sure why you're against this, could you elaborate on why it is so bad? You're removing some disadvantages but you're also taking away some advantages.

[EDMW CSN]

Hybrid system = teh awesome.
Well done

[Sporkosophy]

Skwisgaar Skwigelf, on 04 April 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but swapping an AC20 for a Guass was a very common practice when Gauss rifles were rediscovered. See: Victor, Atlas, Cyclops.

Don't forget the Pillager [Star League era], and the DCMS tried it with a few Hunchbacks; tack on Stealth armor to that Hunchback in the 3060's/3070's and it'd be wonderful.

Dihm, on 04 April 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'm not sure why you're against this, could you elaborate on why it is so bad? You're removing some disadvantages but you're also taking away some advantages.

It sounds like he just named the AS7-K variant of the Atlas.

Edited by Sporkosophy, 04 April 2012 - 10:19 AM.

[Listless Nomad]

I'm glad this was dev blog posted - I wish we had actual pictures instead of stickmen, but that is besides the point. It looks overall to be pretty good, although not ideal. Then again compromise must be struck somewhere. I do have a number of concerns, and I'm sure I'll be shouted down by people in love with it, but I'm going to say it anyway. Also please, before a million people shout this at me - I KNOW ITS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. That doesn't mean it will, and unless concerns are voiced it won't.

1. Boating
- While it would appear that minmaxing with respect to armor is again likely an issue - it's nearly impossible to avoid. Boating is a separate issue, and does not appear to have been adequately addressed. Take for instance the flashman. Canon stock loadout is 3LLs and 5MLs. Using the given example from the vase study - say I remove all three LLs and put 6 MLs back in to replace it. I've now created an 11ML boat, turning a laser boat into a bigger laser boat. Combine that with 2 lasers per weapon group and one could manually chain fire reasonably effectively. Some will say that I should not complain, that customization has always been a part of the game and I need to be quiet. This leads me to my second point however.

2. Variants
- Most of us are familiar with the "Swayback" hunchback shown in the teaser trailer. It would appear from this release that the main way variants are going to be implemented is merely to provide different combinations of hardpoints across a chassis. This is a step forward from MW4, and is to be applauded. However, I would have liked to see variants be less flexible and/or have a more solid purpose for the reason below.

3. Visual Representations
- Without proper visual representations - the art and effort put into variants is largely wasted. Take for instance the "swayback" example again. From the video we saw, it would appear to have 6 MLs grouped in the right shoulder as opposed to an AC/20. Even if it ends up being 3 and 3 on each shoulder - that's still likely 3 hardpoints per area. Theoretically, it's possible that a PPC requires only 3 hardpoints. Now say that a person puts a PPC into that location instead of the MLs. Now, I go into battle against this person and see on my target info it is the HBK-4P. I plan my strategy accordingly, planning ranges etc for the MLs - only to see a single PPC bold shoot out from where I expected MLs. This may be an extreme example, and may seem vain - but for a game that counts itself as more of a sim - and will rely on team and unit tactics, the ability to have an idea of what to expect (or better yet, not being led astray) is not an unreasonable thing. In the example they used in the dev post - when they swapped that LL out for two MLs - did the visual appearance of the mech change to reflect the new weapons?

I just feel that the idea of having visually distinctive variants will be wasted, if when customized they still look the same. How can I trust that the AS7-D identified on my scanner is really an AS7-D and not a laser boat that I need to watch out for. Boaters will boat, and they have ways to be beaten. I'm not complaining about that. I'd just like to know what to expect and I though variants was how that could be achieved.

My suggestions are twofold.

1. If a mechwarrior swaps out any weapons at all, (armor and things idk about) make the identification say HBK-4P (Custom), so that I at least know it's been tinkered with. I know that one of the levels of targeting information will eventually say the weapons it has, but time is crucial occasionally.

2. A more drastic solution would be to make, in the community warfare aspect of the game, variants and stock mechs can only remove weapons and armor, but can not swap out one weapon for another. At the very least it has to be 1 for 1 and only of equal or less hardpoints. Then, have an unranked romper room type deal where you can boat/minmax/go nuts with no consequences and just have fun to blow off steam.

I think the overall mechlab idea is about as good as it can be - barring my concerns here. I think the visual customization section is 100 times better than what I was imagining was going to be available. I know all of this is subject to change. Perhaps the devs have already thought of this/seen this/fixed this.

Then again maybe they haven't and that's why I bring it up. I'm a huge fan of this game, and I just want to see that it is the best it can be. If that makes me a troll, or dumb, or someone to be ridiculed - so be it.

[IceSerpent]

daneiel varna, on 04 April 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I am not so happy with the weapon swapping - > that give you a chance for radical change of the weapon ranges - example ->if you have AC/20 you can change it with Gauss Rifle - not acceptable , another example -> you have 2 medium lasers -> 1 large laser - again not acceptable . That weapon replacing give you a chance to remove some disadvantages from some chassis and make them better . Personally i don't wanna see Hunchback with Gauss Rifle or AS7-D with Gauss Rifle instead of AC/20 or swapped 4 ML for 2LL .

Why is it not acceptable?

AC/20 to Gauss - you gain range, lose damage, and need to free extra 1 ton of weight somehow (iirc AC/20 is 14t and IS gauss is 15t).
2xML to 1xLL - you gain range, lose damage, and need to free extra 3 tons of weight somehow (ML is 1t and LL is 5t).

I don't see a problem.

[Dihm]

Sporkosophy, on 04 April 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

It sounds like he just named the AS7-K variant of the Atlas.

That's exactly what I thought, which is what surprised me. AS7-K updates to an XL engine, Gauss Rifle, LRM-20, 2 ER Large Lasers, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, AMS. Keeps the single heat sinks though, bleh.

Huh, that brings up an interesting thought... if the variant doesn't have double heat sinks, is it possible to swap that out in the MechLab? I would GUESS not, since those are sort of integral to the engine, but you CAN swap engines, so...

Edited by Dihm, 04 April 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[EDMW CSN]

daneiel varna, on 04 April 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I am not so happy with the weapon swapping - > that give you a chance for radical change of the weapon ranges - example ->if you have AC/20 you can change it with Gauss Rifle - not acceptable , another example -> you have 2 medium lasers -> 1 large laser - again not acceptable . That weapon replacing give you a chance to remove some disadvantages from some chassis and make them better . Personally i don't wanna see Hunchback with Gauss Rifle or AS7-D with Gauss Rifle instead of AC/20 or swapped 4 ML for 2LL .

AS7-K Atlas says "Hi !" With it's 2 ERLarge Lasers and Gauss rifle.
And yes there is even a Hunchback (HBK-5SG) with a Gauss rifle and STEALTH armor on top of it, no less.

All official variants. It is due to quick and easy swap that leads to such variants.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 04 April 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[Black Sunder]

daneiel varna, on 04 April 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I am not so happy with the weapon swapping - > that give you a chance for radical change of the weapon ranges - example ->if you have AC/20 you can change it with Gauss Rifle - not acceptable , another example -> you have 2 medium lasers -> 1 large laser - again not acceptable . That weapon replacing give you a chance to remove some disadvantages from some chassis and make them better . Personally i don't wanna see Hunchback with Gauss Rifle or AS7-D with Gauss Rifle instead of AC/20 or swapped 4 ML for 2LL .

You are completely ignoring tonnage restrictions.

[Garth Erlam]

Quote

...you have 2 medium lasers -> 1 large laser - again not acceptable

Large Laser is 5 tons so... uh...

Quote

...say I remove all three LLs and put 6 MLs back in to replace it. I've now created an 11ML boat, turning a laser boat into a bigger laser boat.

If you like overheating yourself to death

[Sporkosophy]

Dihm, on 04 April 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

That's exactly what I thought, which is what surprised me. AS7-K updates to an XL engine, Gauss Rifle, LRM-20, 2 ER Large Lasers, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, AMS. Keeps the single heat sinks though, bleh.

Huh, that brings up an interesting thought... if the variant doesn't have double heat sinks, is it possible to swap that out in the MechLab? I would GUESS not, since those are sort of integral to the engine, but you CAN swap engines, so...

I'd like to see Heat Sink swaps if they port over the variable heat sink types, single and double, so long as they adhered to limited critical slots, which is what really limited the number of double heat sinks in the tabletop.

Oooo, what about the other variant heat sink types from the tabletop; compact/laser, albeit those were later on.

Edited by Sporkosophy, 04 April 2012 - 10:28 AM.

[Listless Nomad]

Garth Erlam, on 04 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Large Laser is 5 tons so... uh...


If you like overheating yourself to death

Not necessarily but it does come with a dozen eggs. If you did an alpha strike you would definitely haha. However, with the right groupings, and slow deliberate fire - you could have a sustained laser barrage. Again I'm not advocating boating - just pointing out that if there is a will there is a way.

[Sporkosophy]

I don't have issue with boating so long as it isn't easy to pin point target like in MW4.

[Listless Nomad]

Sporkosophy, on 04 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

I don't have issue with boating so long as it isn't easy to pin point target like in MW4.

I don't either really as long as they look like boats, and you know how to deal with them.

[Max OConnor]

I like it so far. My biggest concern is that they will make certain cannon mechs in such a way that you cannot recreate the actual weapons layouts.

ie, a Marauder sporting Ballistic weapons in the arms. They did this in the MekPacks and when I would go to mock up a classic mech, I would find I couldn't make it because they blocked the mech off from having the room to place the actual weapons in the locations they should.
The Warhammer was a good example. You couldn't actually lay the weapons out as they should be and you had to leave off the small lasers because there was not enough energy slots available.

I do like having some of the restrictions like if your mech does not come with jump jets, then you can't just slap them on. If you want to jump you will have to choose a different mech. I also hope engine upgrades will also be difficult to modify. It will make you choose your mech carefully and you can't just modify any chassis you like to jump and run as fast as you want and throw whatever weapons you like willy nilly on it.

Marauders should be Marauders, not try to be an Archer or Hatchetman.

[William Petersen]

Reading the comments makes me sad. No matter what you do, you can't make everyone happy. =((

Anyway, PGI-type guys, you've made this MechWarrior very happy. <3