439 replies to this topic

[Jacob Davion]

Okay, I'm not sure if somebody mentioned this or not. But, take the Banshee. It's got a PPC in one torso, and an Autocannon/5 in the other. But, it's arms mount nothing. So, since there aren't any hardpoints there, can it mount any weapon the player wants, or can it not mount any at all?

[zzerker]

Q:when you first join the game and go to the mechlab can you buy a catapult or jenna or atlas and hunchback with cb credits that the games gves you or do you have to spend money to get those types of machines?

Edited by zzerker, 19 July 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[Shammus]

I am very interested in the micro transactions and the cost associated with many of the customization options when will that information be coming?

[Harlock Fredrick]

vary nicely done

[Tuonen Surma]

Images in first page not work

[Chabari]

I noted after installing and playing a couple of days I shut down the game and the PC.. came back the next day and found that the Mechlab loadout screen was pixilated and washed out . I tried uninstalling the game as well as getting the most current driver for my card GTX 460 and reinstalled the Direct x 9.0c. as a side note to this aout the same time the Saitek Cyborg 3D gold j-stick stopped working but still shows in the windows controler. I tried a second stick of the same name and still got nothing. any Ideas?

former (PEN)Reddragon
AKA =LoD=Reddragon

Edited by Chabari, 08 August 2012 - 04:01 PM.

[Morashtak]

Bullvark, on 22 June 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Check the original post in the news: http://mwomercs.com/...-blog-6-mechlab

The pictures are working there

Yep, because those have a link of; http://static.mwomercs.com/img/news/dev_blog6_10.png

While the ones on the first page; http://img.mwomercs.com/news/dev_blog6_10.png

Would a nice Mod change all the image links on the OP to; //static.*

Thanks,

[RoyalPurple]

This will be one of the best customization screens in any game i have played

[Kalindaro]

When does visual customization come out?

[Streaks]

Strum Wealh, on 26 June 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

MWO starts in 3049, and (at least in the near term) presumably uses a 1-to-1 day progression (1 day IRL = 1 day in-game).
Laser Reflective Armor is canonically developed by the Lyrans (House Steiner) in 3058.
Reactive armor is canonically developed by the Combine (House Kurita) in 3063.
So, it is unlikely that either of those - or several of the other alternative armor types - are going to be available for quite some time yet.

Also, OmniMechs (both IS and Clan) are not (canonically) nearly as modular as some seem to think they are.
From TechManual, pg. 20:
(emphasis on the first paragraph)

Moreover:
"OmniMechs are not fully modular. An OmniMech's structural components: its engine, internal structure, armor and any equipment installed on the base chassis of OmniMech are "hard-wired" and cannot be modified outside of a total redesign of the 'Mech. While customization of these components is theoretically possible in the field, it is avoided as it hard-wires all the 'Mechs components and effectively transforms it from a OmniMech into a standard BattleMech." (from Sarna, see here)


"All complete primary and alternate configurations thereafter must use the same arrangement of internal structure critical slots." (TechManual, pg. 47)

"The engine type, rating and placement of its critical slots must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in that OmniMech’s completed primary or alternate configurations." (TechManual, pg. 48)

"The gyro type, weight and placement of its critical slots must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in the completed primary or alternate configurations of that OmniMech." (TechManual, pg. 50)

"The number, type and placement of jump jets need not be determined as part of an OmniMech’s base configuration, and so do not need to be established at this stage if the designer wishes to leave jump capability as an option.
If any jump jets are established for a base configuration at this stage, they are considered permanent and may not be altered in that OmniMech’s completed primary or alternate configurations. However, additional jump jets may be placed on an alternate configuration if the base configuration does not carry the maximum possible jets for its type." (TechManual, pg. 51)

"The cockpit type and placement of its critical slots must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in that OmniMech’s completed primary or alternate configurations." (TechManual, pg. 52)

"The type, weight and placement of critical slots for MASC and Triple-Strength Myomer must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in that OmniMech’s completed primary or alternate configurations.
Unlike jump jets, neither MASC nor Triple-Strength Myomer may be “pod-mounted,” so an OmniMech may not feature MASC or TSM capabilities on an alternate configuration unless the base configuration is so equipped." (TechManual, pg. 53)

"As heat sinks may be mounted in Omni-pods just like other weapons and equipment, any additional sinks can easily be left to alternate configurations.
However, said configurations must always use the same heat sink type as that used by the base chassis." (TechManual, pg. 54)

"The type, weight, number of points and critical slots (if any) required for an OmniMech’s armor must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in the completed primary or alternate configurations." (TechManual, pg. 55)

"Though it is unusual, weapons and equipment may be established as fixed components of an OmniMech’s base configuration just like heat sinks and jump jets.
In such cases, these “fixed” items must be mounted and placed on the Critical Hits Table before completion of the base configuration, and may not be altered in the completed primary or alternate configurations." (TechManual, pg. 57)
Examples of such fixed components include the flamer on the Adder/"Puma", the Medium Lasers on the Avatar, and five of the Jump Jets on the Summoner/"Thor".

So, yes - hardpoints do make sense as much sense in terms of OmniMechs as for normal BattleMechs (that is to say, a lot).
Granted, OmniMechs should be characterized by having hardpoints that can accept any weapon type (as opposed to normal BattleMechs, where the hardpoints can accept only one weapon type).
But OmniMechs, canonically, are not (and, IMO, should not be implemented in MWO as) the proverbial "bags of guns and components" that some seem to believe (or desire) them to be.

Your thoughts?

Strum, the techmanual seems to be totally in opposition to what I was going by which was the 3050 book....

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/OmniMech]Per the Sarna Wiki[/url]

Based on the modular replacement system of the Mercury BattleMech, OmniMech technology was developed by a team of Clan Coyote scientists led by Scientist Richard (Remer) with the assistance of Clan Sea Fox. In 2854, their collaboration resulted in Clan Coyote's Coyotl, the first true OmniMech. The Coyotl's OmniMech technology provided far more flexibility than the famous ease of replacement of the Mercury's semi-modular Hessen IX small lasers^[1]. Clan Coyote and Sea Fox had evolved the technology to allow complete reconfiguration of the weapon systems and certain structural components of an OmniMech within hours.^[2][3][4]
Prototype OmniMech design was hampered by several major problems in targeting, stability, and construction. The OmniMech gyro had to adapt to large structural changes in the center of mass of the 'Mech. Without specialized software and extreme increases to physical tolerance, the OmniMech would not be as stable as a conventional BattleMech. Changing loadout quickly also required the OmniMech battle computer to accept "snap and go" software for its targeting and tracking system. Likewise, the frame of the OmniMech could not waste space and mass for the physical interfaces of interchangeable equipment. Only standardized, specially constructed OmniMech components could be utilized on the OmniMech's frame. Richard (Remer) and his team required six full years to solve these complications before prototype OmniMechs began combat trials, and another 1.5 years before the Coyotl entered full service.^[2][5][4]
OmniMech utility resulted in revolutionary changes on the battlefield. An OmniMech was more tactically and strategically flexible than any BattleMech before, allowing Clan Coyote (and to a lesser extent, the demurring Sea Foxes) to choose the capabilities of a machine depending upon the requirements of a particular mission. The major limitation to this flexibility was the mass of the chassis, which constrained the speed, armor and pod space of the Coyotl. This was quickly addressed with the introduction of at least three more first generation OmniMechs, each a different drop weight.^[2][3][4]
The first generation OmniMechs were largely overlooked until 2859, when Clan Coyote equipped nearly all of its Alpha Galaxy with OmniMechs. Due greatly to their OmniMechs, Clan Coyote became dominant on the Clan battlefield and quickly expanded within the Kerensky Cluster. By the time Clan Jade Falcon won the prized technology in 2863, Clan Coyote's OmniMechs had been nearly unstoppable on the battlefields of the Clan Homeworlds for almost a decade.^[3][4] By the end of the next calender year, six more Clans possessed the technology.^[3] The final Clan to adopt OmniMech technology was Clan Ghost Bear, who took the technology from Clan Hell's Horses in 2873.^[6]
A completely unintended consequence of their advanced gyros, OmniMechs could also be used extensively as infantry transports. In 2868, Clan Wolf began fielding Battle Armored Infantry, based on environmental suits used by Clan Goliath Scorpion in the seas of Dagda. First demonstrated on the field against Clan Nova Cat, battle armor revitalized infantry in 29th Century Clan warfare and accelerated the propagation of the new Elemental warrior phenotype developed by Clan Hell's Horses. Though several types of battle armor were tested, the classic Elemental battle armor, a blend of speed, anti-Mech capability, protection and firepower, prevailed during development in 2867.^{[7][8][9][10]} However, Elementals are only capable of 90-meter leaps and are nearly one ton in mass.^[10] Without dedicated troop transports or longer-ranged weaponry, battle armor could only be used effectively as fixed defenders against experienced adversaries. Rather than utilize conventional Combat Vehicles for deployment and redeployment, designers realized the specialized gyroscopes of OmniMechs could allow a star of Elementals to mount in the field. By [color="#ba0000"]refitting[/color] and [color="#ba0000"]retrofitting[/color] OmniMechs with handholds, OmniMechs could perform as dedicated infantry transports. This concept was taken to its logical conclusion within six years of the initial Wolf-Nova Cat trial, when Clan Cloud Cobra began production of the Fire Moth.^{[11][2][12][13]}
The OmniMech's ease of repair, rearmament, and weapons loadout modification allowed Clan MechWarriors to quickly return to the battlefield, and kept the Clans moving at an amazing pace during the Clans' invasion of the Inner Sphere.^[14] But the Clans' obvious technological advantage resulted in a rapid response from Inner Sphere weapons manufacturers. While not able to replicate the advanced construction materials of the invaders, the Inner Sphere was able of reverse engineer OmniMech technology from captured or crippled machines. Thanks to the pristine examples gained from the [color="#ba0000"]Battle of Wolcott[/color] and several galaxies worth of salvage in the aftermath of the Operation Dragonslayer, the Draconis Combine led Inner Sphere OmniMech development. Just five months after Dragonslayer, as the Com Guards fought the Clans on Tukayyid, the Draconis Combine introduced the first Inner Sphere OmniMech, the Raptor, in May 3052. ^[15] By 3058 the Combine had eight separate OmniMechs in production with licensed versions being built in the Lyran Alliance and the Free Worlds League. By 3067 every Successor State had their own OmniMechs in production.^[16][17]
[edit] Advantages

The modular construction allows MechWarriors to customize their machine's weapon loadout to suit their own skills and preference, and suit specific tactical or environmental needs as required. Where a BattleMech of comparable weight is designed and built for a specific role, a OmniMech can serve as a direct-fire combatant one day, and a missile boat the next.^[14] A single 'Mech that can perform the role of four frees up significant logistical space during a campaign. ^[17]
Though not solely created for modular weapon loadouts, the OmniMech design greatly **** repair and construction as well. If a weapon pod is damaged, it can be quickly detached and replaced with another while the original is undergoing repair. If certain weapons or ammunition are unavailable, alternates can be easily substituted. Once their modular weaponry and equipment is removed, the empty bays generally provide larger spaces to access and repair the base chassis. Damaged components such as arms and legs can be easily replaced in half the time it takes for common BattleMechs, and often with less experienced technicians able perform such tasks.^[14]
The technology also greatly **** salvage, even if an enemy OmniMech is virtually destroyed, an intact OmniPod can be detached and reattached to a functional Omni just as quickly and easily as it was factory fresh, maximizing the Clan's overriding drive to avoid waste. While Inner Sphere and Clan technologies are generally incompatible with each other with regard to repairs, this does not apply to OmniPods, with Inner Sphere OmniMechs able to mount Clan pods and Clan Omni's able to equip Inner Sphere pods interchangeably.^[18] This is due to Inner Sphere Omni technology being based on Clan designs, as opposed to being separately developed.<sup>[citation needed]




THIS is what I was going by when talking about hard points vs omni mechs. Omni mechs are supposed to be totally modular. Now, granted this is talking about just omnimechs and not the current state of the game which involves just the IS, so ok I'm fine with the idea of fixed positions on IS mechs at this point in the time-line. That said, is it really such a stretch to imagine that engineers couldn't figure out how to mount things in positions that have nothing installed by default? Perhaps just energy weapons as it's easier to route power cables vs ammo feed mechanisms? Or that if you have say, an energy weapon in one location, that said location can only have a set amount of energy weapons there? If you have a PPC in a torso for example, why wouldn't those power conduits be able to supply say, five medium lasers or two large lasers? I'd imagine the PPC draws a lot more power right?

See what I'm get'n at?</sup>

Edited by Streaks, 17 September 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Streaks, on 17 September 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Strum, the techmanual seems to be totally in opposition to what I was going by which was the 3050 book....

(snipped quotation of Sarna.net's article on OmniMechs and references to the Mercury and Coyotl)

THIS is what I was going by when talking about hard points vs omni mechs. Omni mechs are supposed to be totally modular. Now, granted this is talking about just omnimechs and not the current state of the game which involves just the IS, so ok I'm fine with the idea of fixed positions on IS mechs at this point in the time-line. That said, is it really such a stretch to imagine that engineers couldn't figure out how to mount things in positions that have nothing installed by default? Perhaps just energy weapons as it's easier to route power cables vs ammo feed mechanisms? Or that if you have say, an energy weapon in one location, that said location can only have a set amount of energy weapons there? If you have a PPC in a torso for example, why wouldn't those power conduits be able to supply say, five medium lasers or two large lasers? I'd imagine the PPC draws a lot more power right?

^{See what I'm get'n at?}

I see what you're getting at... but, I also see that you're mistaken.

Firstly, it was possible to mount weapons where there were none previously... if one had access to a Class D refit kit and a proper maintenance facility.
In fact, I actually touched on this in another thread:

Strum Wealh, on 13 September 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Also, there are the "refit kits" described on pages 188-189 of Strategic Operations.

• Class A: field refit kit allowing for replacement of a single already-present weapon with one of the same type (energy/ballistic/missile) and similar or lesser size (criticals)
  
• Class B: field refit kit allowing for replacement of a single already-present weapon with one of a different type (energy → ballistic or missile, ballistic → missile or energy, missile → energy or ballistic) and similar or lesser size (criticals)
  
• Class C: maintenance refit kit allowing for change of armor type and distribution, replacement of a single already-present weapon with one of a different type (energy → ballistic or missile, ballistic → missile or energy, missile → energy or ballistic) regardless of size, movement of a component to another location (e.g. RT → LT, or vice versa), addition or removal of ammunition bins, or addition or removal of a heat sink (but not a change of heat sink type)
  
• Class D: maintenance refit kit allowing for the addition of a new (not already-present) weapon or piece of equipment, a change of heat sink type, or a change of engine rating (but not engine type)
  
• Class E: factory-level refit kit allowing for the installation of CASE or a change of myomer type
  
• Class F: factory-level refit kit allowing for a change in internal structure, engine, gyro, and cockpit types

The price of each kit is 1.10*(sum of prices of all components in the kit).

Each kit allows for only one instance of the listed effects, thus necessitating multiple kits to produce multiple changes of the same type (e.g. changing each of an Atlas' Medium Lasers to Medium Pulse Lasers would require a separate Class A refit kit, so changing all four lasers requires four separate refit kits).

To use your own example, a PPC in the right torso of a non-OmniTech BattleMech has exactly one set of power conduits, while a duo of Large Lasers would require two separate sets of power conduits (double what is actually available) and quintet of Medium Lasers would require five separate sets of power conduits (five times what is actually available).
The same holds true for ammunition bins and feed mechanisms - thus, why one cannot simply exchange a single LRM-15 launcher for three LRM-5 launchers on a non-OmniTech BattleMech.
And then there are the issues of mounting brackets on the frame/skeleton, coolant lines to connect to the heat sinks, connection and calibration to the fire control system, and so on...

Also, the limitations on OmniMechs mentioned in my previous post are not really a new thing - in addition to being the current BattleTech construction/customization rules from TechManual (published in 2007), they are also described (albeit in far, far less detail) on pages 93 and 129 of the Classic BattleTech Maser Rules, Revised (published in 2003).

With MWO being built the way it is, the distinction between BattleMech chassis - and eventually, between standard BattleMechs and OmniMechs, and between OmniMech chassis - takes on renewed importance.
They're part of what keeps, for example, a Night Gyr and a Mad Cat unique from each other; otherwise, both of them are "merely" 75-ton gunbags with different skins.
Likewise, there would never be a need - or justifiable reason - to ever develop/implement either the Mad Cat Mk.II (90-ton OmniMech) or the Blood Asp (90-ton OmniMech) if the same engine/armor/weapon/equipment load could be put into a Kingfisher (90-ton OmniMech) that predates both of them by almost 200 years.
This would be analogous to how the current hardpoint system would keep the Hunchback and the Centurion from being "merely" 50-ton gunbags with different skins.

Implementing the canon restrictions would be what achieves such differentiation between OmniMech chassis while still allowing the weapon-loadout flexibility that is the primary characteristic - and, arguably, the raison d'etre - of the OmniMechs while also keeping with PGI's apparent goal of building a game that is more true to its source material than its predecessors.

[Streaks]

Sorry to revive this one, it's been busy at work and I've not had much time to log on but, I enjoyed this chat with ya I guess the problem I'm having is that I don't have the tech manual. To me, as I understand it, it seems to contradict the previous 3050 description of omnimechs is what I'm getting at. And I think that's what the confusion is on my part. The omni's were at the 3050 time line described as hot swappable and then the tech manual seems to contradict it by stating that they're more like designs of old IS with hardpoints restrictions.....am I missing something there? Yes you'd still need some specialized tools like heavy lift equipment to be able to physically lift heavy weapons systems into place and even limbs etc. Ok but I'd think a HQ would have that and maybe even a fortified forward base could even make use of mechs to do the lifting for some of it. At least for weapons pods though I'll grant that major chassis parts like engines or even heatsinks would require more specialized tools. But I thought the whole point of the modular system was to facilitate such weapon layout changes >in the field< and thus giving the omnimechs their edge and hence names as the top of the food chain for mech development. Yup, that makes them a gunbag as you put it but to me that's the whole point. They're a chassis that is able to mount various parts in whatever configuration the pilot desires. Much of the lore involves this, even the novels etc. Then the techmanual seems to contradict all this cannon? I guess to me that seems to be a bad move on FASA's part is what I'm getting at and I personally disagree with it but that's just my opinion *shrug*

To my way of thinking it speaks of a pilot/player's design skill to come up with a very effective chassis that can mount sustained firepower while running cool, having good armor and mobility. Sure it's easy to just load up a bunch of PPC's or LRM's and go out and nuke things but you'll be either shutting down or running dry on ammo pretty quickly in my experience. Personally I like to design it in layers....long range punch then medium range steady damage and short range devistation to keep people at bay with the "OMG that guy hurts close up stay far away from him"

Was the techmanual an optional rules set or was it devoted to standard rules changes? If the former then I'd simply opt not to use said rules in my games and if the later, I'd still not use them as to me that's just not an omnimech

[Strum Wealh]

Streaks, on 07 October 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Sorry to revive this one, it's been busy at work and I've not had much time to log on but, I enjoyed this chat with ya I guess the problem I'm having is that I don't have the tech manual. To me, as I understand it, it seems to contradict the previous 3050 description of omnimechs is what I'm getting at. And I think that's what the confusion is on my part. The omni's were at the 3050 time line described as hot swappable and then the tech manual seems to contradict it by stating that they're more like designs of old IS with hardpoints restrictions.....am I missing something there? Yes you'd still need some specialized tools like heavy lift equipment to be able to physically lift heavy weapons systems into place and even limbs etc. Ok but I'd think a HQ would have that and maybe even a fortified forward base could even make use of mechs to do the lifting for some of it. At least for weapons pods though I'll grant that major chassis parts like engines or even heatsinks would require more specialized tools. But I thought the whole point of the modular system was to facilitate such weapon layout changes >in the field< and thus giving the omnimechs their edge and hence names as the top of the food chain for mech development. Yup, that makes them a gunbag as you put it but to me that's the whole point. They're a chassis that is able to mount various parts in whatever configuration the pilot desires. Much of the lore involves this, even the novels etc. Then the techmanual seems to contradict all this cannon? I guess to me that seems to be a bad move on FASA's part is what I'm getting at and I personally disagree with it but that's just my opinion *shrug*

To my way of thinking it speaks of a pilot/player's design skill to come up with a very effective chassis that can mount sustained firepower while running cool, having good armor and mobility. Sure it's easy to just load up a bunch of PPC's or LRM's and go out and nuke things but you'll be either shutting down or running dry on ammo pretty quickly in my experience. Personally I like to design it in layers....long range punch then medium range steady damage and short range devistation to keep people at bay with the "OMG that guy hurts close up stay far away from him"

Was the techmanual an optional rules set or was it devoted to standard rules changes? If the former then I'd simply opt not to use said rules in my games and if the later, I'd still not use them as to me that's just not an omnimech

My copy of the Classic BattleTech Master Rules (product code 10984, rather than 35000) states, on page 129, "However, engines, endo steel, MASC, triple-strength myomer, and armor cannot be added to an OmniMech using pod technology, for obvious reasons".
The basis for TechManual's descriptions of the OmniMechs' restrictions was already there; TechManual merely fleshed it out.

Since 2007, TechManual (along with Total Warfare, Tactical Operations, and Strategic Operations) has since supplanted the CBTMR and its companion works as the current standard rule set for BattleTech.
Of the four current core rulebooks, TechManual specifically addresses the construction of "factory fresh" new units ('Mechs, ships, Battle Armor, common vehicles, etc).
By contrast, the customization and repair rules for already-existing units (as opposed to building a "factory fresh" new unit) are addressed in Strategic Operations.

[Streaks]

Wow that's a shame IMO, it'd be a game killer for me and knowing that I'll just not buy it then. It'd be like FASA coming out tomorrow and stating that oh btw this new manual changes heat managment, now all weapons deal with their own heat or maybe that all engines and core parts now occupy the entire chassis and weapons can only be mounted on the arms. Just seems very wrong to me to make such a drastic change to the omni mechs *shrug*

[SPACE SPECTURE]

I Call Dibbs on The Grey Death Legion.

If nessecary. I will start out like Mr. Grayson did in Dicesion* at thunder rift

Also when will we see Ferro-Fibrous Armour ???

I haven't read this entire thread. So this question might have been asked already

(*=Posssible spelling error)

[SPACE SPECTURE]

I'm sorry to hear that Merc companies like the Grey Death Legion aren't playable in MWO.

That is a shame. Because the GDL was one of my top 3 favorite Merc Units.

No.1 was the Wolf Dragoons and No.2 was the Black Thorns

[Lieutenant Dan]

wohaa i want a mech leb designed like this

[Ace1137]

Hello,

I was just wondering in the next patch, could you make it to when you take a wepon off of a mech' The Wepon actually comes off the arm. Like if you buy a mech' where it has an arm and a ppc. If you take the ppc off, it shows a regular arm instead off a ppc.

Thanks,
Ace

[White Bear 84]

Ace12, on 22 March 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Hello,

I was just wondering in the next patch, could you make it to when you take a wepon off of a mech' The Wepon actually comes off the arm. Like if you buy a mech' where it has an arm and a ppc. If you take the ppc off, it shows a regular arm instead off a ppc.

Thanks,
Ace

Being worked on. Already does with the catapult (notice the guns will go when you take the PPC's out and its even cooler witht the Jager - every weapon looks different!

[Niehsm]

I would love to able to rearrange my mechs position in the mechbay (eg. Put all my lights together, or put the ones that I'm running for efficiently unlock together, or group by role....)
It would also be cool to be able to rename a mech. As the mech name seems to ony appear in the bay, name changing shouldn't have a game play effect -- but it would let me fix my spelling errors (oops).
Thanks