21 replies to this topic

[Siilk]

There was a couple of posts(this one by Brian and this one by Paul) that made me concerned about the possibility of MWO having 3rd person view. I know, there are some die-hard fans of playing in 3rd person but let me bring up some points on why addition of 3rd person view will harm MWO.

Thinking that 3dr person view would be a net positive for the game is rather untrue as there are a some advantageout gameplay tactics, available in 3rd person in a multiplayer match. Pre-aimed poptarting, shooting from around corners, looking around buildings and above obstacles, all that ruins the immersion and, more importantly, makes scouting and acquisition of targeting info in general much less important.

The notion of having 1st or 3rd person views restricted match-wide is great but, that right there divides the community because *very* few people play (and like) both, 1st and 3rd person view. It also creates problems with the campaign/tournament play, as it would have to force only one type of view or leave 1st person players at disadvantage.

In short, optional 3rd person, while being seemingly harmless eye-candy as it is in a single-player games, could turn up game-breaking and ultimately community-breaking feature in MWO due to it's focus on multiplayer. With that in mind, I'd like to ask dev team to reconsider their decision on 3rd person view as it could seriously harm MWO gameplay experience.

[Vodkavaiator]

Agreed.

First person restricted views are simply much more immerse/fun.

It actually makes the cockpit of the mechs or rather the visibility they offer matter.

The advantages third person provides in some situations is also problematic, strategically and tactically.

Edited by Vodkavaiator, 31 March 2012 - 02:51 AM.

[Thrall]

If the devs are considering putting in a forced 3rd person view, making it so you cannot switch back and forth in just one gametype, then i'd be alright with that.

Everyone deserves to have the best experiences as possible in the game, but the games does need to be balanced for that to work as well... And the best way to do that is.. Use all of us players as guinea pigs for their experiments to determine if we should or should not have 3rd person mode.

Synical experiments aside. - The best option is to set up the gametype, monitor how things play out, make adjustments where believed to be needed, continue to monitor gameplay, loop this process until the decision is made to do 1 of 3 things.

A. Keep it as is.
B. Add more content to test and/or Remove previous content
C. Cease 3rd person altogether.

Edited by Thrall, 31 March 2012 - 03:13 AM.

[StaIker]

Siilk, on 31 March 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

There was a couple of posts(this one by Brian and this one by Paul) that made me concerned about the possibility of MWO having 3rd person view. I know, there are some die-hard fans of playing in 3rd person but let me bring up some points on why addition of 3rd person view will harm MWO.

Thinking that 3dr person view would be a net positive for the game is rather untrue as there are a some advantageout gameplay tactics, available in 3rd person in a multiplayer match. Pre-aimed poptarting, shooting from around corners, looking around buildings and above obstacles, all that ruins the immersion and, more importantly, makes scouting and acquisition of targeting info in general much less important.

The notion of having 1st or 3rd person views restricted match-wide is great but, that right there divides the community because *very* few people play (and like) both, 1st and 3rd person view. It also creates problems with the campaign/tournament play, as it would have to force only one type of view or leave 1st person players at disadvantage.

In short, optional 3rd person, while being seemingly harmless eye-candy as it is in a single-player games, could turn up game-breaking and ultimately community-breaking feature in MWO due to it's focus on multiplayer. With that in mind, I'd like to ask dev team to reconsider their decision on 3rd person view as it could seriously harm MWO gameplay experience.

Agreed. Virtually everything about it made MW4 worse in some way. Even if by some miracle it could be incorporated into MWO without giving any advantage at all, it would still split the community down the middle for no purpose.

Edited by StaIker, 31 March 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[Siilk]

Another thing to consider: balancing 1st and 3rd person view together would require a lot dev team of efforts, which IMO would be better spent on more important things like mech or weapon balancing or fixing bugs.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

From Brians post it is clear that if 3rd person is in then it will be an option for that view only. It then comes down to how many would play that section of the game. Would it be only those who suffer from motion sickness? I never played in that view simply from choice, I got more immersion from 1st person. Having said that I can see many people who are new to the IP perhaps preferrring it as it can be a lot easier for all the reasons Siilk outlined above. I'm not sure if they will ever be able to mix the two.

[A6PackofToucans]

If you have 3rd person you can get some real advantages, I now have a vastly wider field of view and can more readily see where weapons fire is coming from and react much faster to it. I am looking over my mechs shoulder higher than the height of the mech and can peek over that hillside or around a building to take advantage of pre-targeting my systems on that enemy mech without exposing myself over the hill, around the building etc.

These are real tactics that were used ad nauseum in MW4 and I feel it would break this sim. When we forced 1st person in the servers in MW4 we ended up with a completely different gameplay experience. Suddenly the guys used to 3rd person were having trouble exposing themselves and acquiring a target while jump jetting, and they admitted it too. But after some of them got used to it, they liked the new, more realistic tactics involved in scouting a target and keeping him in view from your cockpit, as well as the challenge of targeting and hitting moving mechs when both sides are limited to the views of their unique mech cockpits.

Please keep this sim a 1st person simulator in online matches.

Edited by A6PackofToucans, 31 March 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[That Guy]

i agree, please keep the game first person only

[Anita Chess]

I hate first person view, always did, with exception of Albion (3d parts) and Might and Magic perhaps, ah, and Morrowind.

It is one thing to choose for yourself that you prefer 1st person view, another to want to deny the option for all players.

Edited by Anita Chess, 31 March 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[Shai tan]

A thing that CAN be exploited, WILL be exploited. Altho, I have refused to use and have never used included 3rd pov asscam perspectives. Never have, never will.

[That Guy]

and thats why we still have MW4

[syngyne]

Anita Chess, on 31 March 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

It is one thing to choose for yourself that you prefer 1st person view, another to want to deny the option for all players.

Except that this is a competitive multiplayer game, and the third person perspective gives a number of advantages over a first person view which have been outlined above. If you make it a choice to play either first or third person view, everyone is going to need to play third person in order to stay competitive. People who want to play in first person view are going to be effectively denied that choice, because they're going to have a hard time getting anywhere in the game vs. players who are able to see around corners, etc.

Additionally, the devs have stated that they're really wanting to push the idea that you're piloting your 'Mech, not that you are your 'Mech, and third person view is counter to that goal.

[pesco]

syngyne, on 31 March 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Additionally, the devs have stated that they're really wanting to push the idea that you're piloting your 'Mech, not that you are your 'Mech, and third person view is counter to that goal.

Exactly this. I remember when the first article about gameplay came out, there was an outcry because the author mentioned 3rd-person view. The developers rushed to point out that it was only a debug feature for show and definitely not going to be in the game proper.

Clearly, with the statements linked to in the top post, something has changed. The option of a "mutator" is clearly on the table. From the sound of it, it will be in from the first days of beta. A mutator, I assume, means that before you start the matchmaker, you can do something like click a box to select "3rd-person allowed". Then you get only into matches that have the same mutator. If you don't enable it, you get the opposite, only matches that don't have it.

Piranha, please reconsider. People will only enable that mutator if they really want that feature. Those who do will want it because it makes the game easier. Once enough people use it, everyone will have to. You will split your community and alienate your core player base. But the latter is what you need to keep, because those guys are going to keep paying no matter how "unpopular" your game will be compared to the big boys. And it will be. MechWarrior is a niche title. And that's fine. I just hope you're planning for it.

Edited by pesco, 01 April 2012 - 03:06 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

I chuckle at the "I want this because I want this" posters. They seem like the teenagers who hate their parents because they did not get the iPad 2 in the color they wanted for xmas. Things like 3rd person view for one person is selfish, as is NHUA and the desire to only pilot Assaults. And motion sickness as an excuse? How many people really do get motion sickness playing 1st person - I mean, REALLY get motion sickness that requires medical assistance? If they do not play because of FFP, I think the drop in playership would be statistically insignificant.

MWO is going to be (or should be) a game that you want to play to compete in and not just to win. To play just to win suggests a character flaw. People who only play a game to win are missing a lot - not just in the game, but the community that is likely to develop. If you are always getting 3rd person view, NHUA and Assaults, you are probably going to abandon the game fairly quickly.

That would be grand for the rest of us.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 01 April 2012 - 08:25 AM.

[Tvae]

As far as the actual gameplay goes, I definitely agree that it should be kept to first person so that everyone is on the same playing field. It also adds another dimension of differentiation between mechs: different mechs have different viewports, as opposed to just looking different from the outside. Some mechs being a bit more effective, yet a bit harder to see out of, could prove an interesting balancing point (not so much as to render a mech unusable, but for something with a larger viewport - like the Urbanmech - could definitely take advantage of it being solely 1st person).

There should definitely be a 3rd person view (as well as many other views) in regards to a replay feature if one is implemented, though.

[GaussDragon]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 April 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

I chuckle at the "I want this because I want this" posters. They seem like the teenagers who hate their parents because they did not get the iPad 2 in the color they wanted for xmas. Things like 3rd person view for one person is selfish, as is NHUA and the desire to only pilot Assaults.

I can't help but point out how absurd your logic is. Forcing everyone into 1st person because you don't like playing 3rd person is unselfish how? Calling other players' preferences selfish simply on the basis that they're not preferences that you share, such as 3PV, NHUA and piloting assaults is about as hypocritical as it gets lol.

Just to point out, I'm indifferent on this debate. In fact, it's moot, the devs already said it's FFP anyway.

Edited by GaussDragon, 01 April 2012 - 10:53 AM.

[Kaemon]

No views for anyone!

You'll all have to play by hearing alone.

[T0RC4ED]

3rd person view is a game breaker unless it is only used in 3rd person view game types (Im all for allowing 3rd person view ranked matches). The only type of 3rd person view I would find acceptable in normal game types is a UAV.

[Requital]

syngyne, on 31 March 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Except that this is a competitive multiplayer game, and the third person perspective gives a number of advantages over a first person view which have been outlined above. If you make it a choice to play either first or third person view, everyone is going to need to play third person in order to stay competitive. People who want to play in first person view are going to be effectively denied that choice, because they're going to have a hard time getting anywhere in the game vs. players who are able to see around corners, etc.

Additionally, the devs have stated that they're really wanting to push the idea that you're piloting your 'Mech, not that you are your 'Mech, and third person view is counter to that goal.

^ This

Two letters in regards to 3rd person view in a mech sim. N and O.

[Gremlich Johns]

GaussDragon, on 01 April 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

I can't help but point out how absurd your logic is. Forcing everyone into 1st person because you don't like playing 3rd person is unselfish how?

It is not absurd - any game that offers 1st and 3rd person view does not allow an even playing field. In such games where both options are available, I always play 1st person, but I never demand that others in the match choose the same. You assume much. If the game is set for 1st person view, great, that is the mode I prefer an it is not selfish if I make no demands on other players to do so. That separates the players from the Mechwarriors. If it is set for 3rd person view only, it presents as even a playing field as 1st person does in a match. When you have an option between the two, it does not present fair play if some choose 3rd person over 1st - the game is ostensibly rigged towards one mode over the other. It means the difference of an arcade style game over a sim - you are either in the game or on it.

But, as you point out, the argument is moot.

Seyla vie

and what syngyne said!!