98 replies to this topic

[BlindPR]

Youngbull1980, on 31 October 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

Personally I think the trial mechs are a good idea, and before i get flamed for being founder "And i have a better mech because its a founder" (which they aren't its the same friggin' mech with a different skin but i can change the load-out which cost money). Let me say this.

1. I think that everyone should start with say 3.5mill C-Bills. this way they can buy all the lights and some of the med's straight off the bat. Or save the money if they are after a heavy or assault mech. But then it really doesn't take that long to grind up to buy a mech. One of the guys in our group has had enough to buy 2x commandos in less than a day (on a 50/50 win ratio).

2. Trial mechs couldn't be limited to 1 from each class. They should have 1 version of each mech up at all times. If i'm looking to buy a new mech I don't want to waste my MC or C-Bills i want to try a version of that mech first and don't want to have to wait 2-4weeks for it to come up in the rotation. I wouldn't mind giving an atlas a go but last 2 assault mechs have been different versions of the Awesome

3. Trial mech's should get GXP but not MXP as they need to get something for their troubles and as GXP is the slowest of everything in this game (and most useful - but needs saving and not wasting) this seems a good choice.

As for the grind comments I've been seeing - PLEASE all MMO's have a grind of some type its the nature of the beast. If they didn't you wouldn't have any skills/weapons/armour etc.... to upgrade.

sounds good.

[Evil Deaz]

Youngbull1980, on 31 October 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

3. Trial mech's should get GXP but not MXP as they need to get something for their troubles and as GXP is the slowest of everything in this game (and most useful - but needs saving and not wasting) this seems a good choice.

Well i got to agree w/ the GXP idea, should get some GXP from trail mechs. Now the grind part aint so bad. I made enough C-bills over a weekend to get a Dragon and fitted the way i wanted, and had plenty left over to buy a raven the next day...just takes some time investing like any game does.

[Palmtree]

I see PGI's view here. From their perspective, there needs to be a reason for a player to come in and pay money. If you can start at the same level as someone who has paid for MC, why would anyone pay? One of the major incentives of paying for MC is the avoidance of the trial grind. Note that this is not the same as pay to win - in current format, anyone can unlock anything, it's only the speed of those unlocks that changes. People need to understand that these games can only sustain themselves as "free to play" as long as some portion of the players are in fact paying. PGI would be pretty dumb to neuter one of the only incentives paying players have to pay.

That all being said, I like the idea of trial mechs gaining GXP at the rate a normal mech does.

Edited by Palmtree, 31 October 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[StriplingWarrior]

I know I have a founder tag and that means "I have no idea what we go through." However, over the course of 30 matches, I have,
1 Fully configured my Jenner so it is how I want it.-This includes double heatsinks and a 5M C-bill engine
2 Still tweaking my Atlas but it has been modified rather heavily

I know if I run my founders stuff with the premium account I get approx 70% more C-bills per match, my point is that between just the engine for the Jenny and the doubles, that is 6.5M Cbills. Take the bonus off and that would be just about 4M Cbills in that time. More than enough to buy any light and almost any, if not any medium mech. I have not spent any MC at all. No extra mech slots. No Hero mechs. Nothing. Im not an amazing mechwarrior, as you can see. I don't do premade, although running with a single lancemate does not count as premade IMO. Which I was doing last night for about 15 rounds.

Spoiler

I do think that Trial mechs should get full GXP for their trouble so that those who have to run them can see some progress. That means that running trials over the same 30 games you would have about 650 950 GXP, depending on blah, blah, damage, blah, blah, assists, blah.

EDIT corrected bad GXP figure.

Edited by StriplingWarrior, 01 November 2012 - 09:09 AM.

[Rip Calkin]

gamingogre, on 30 October 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Because I have to start over and especially because of the grind; I will not continue to play. When the reset occured and I found I had no money, I went to see about spending money and buying a mech. I have no interest in buying(real world money) a mech that can be bought with ingame money. Since there is only one 'special' mech and it is not the type I want to play, I will not be playing until there is something worth my money. I REFUSE to do this grind with the trial mechs. The game went to open beta to early. It needs more mech selections at the minimum.

If you really don't like the game, I don't blame you for walking away.

Just do all of us who do enjoy the game a favor:

Don't whine and gripe so much on your way out that you make the game less fun for others. Just go away as you've stated you intend to do.

Drunetovich, on 30 October 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Remove this boring trial mech drag, i got insanely bored on my 10th match with them, i want to go to mech lab already and tinker with my own configurations!

Troll!

[Mahotsukai]

"Free" entry-level tanks/planes/whateves in other games are not that free - they are just cannon fodder

[Mahotsukai]

oups sorry the end of the post was lost...

"free" units in other games are sponsored by higher lvl players - who paid and now pwning low lvl units, who can not even scratch them
hopefully this is not the case with Mechwarrior - "low" lvl Jenner can kill Atlas
so no no to the free low lvl Mechs - it will kill the interest to use higher lvl Mechs

and it will be bad for business - now you either grind or pay
good free mech = no intence to pay

[AtomicFrawg]

I will weigh in as a non founder. I played closed beta and had to do the grind twice. Once joining closed beta and again during open.
This grind is what you will be doing with other mechs as well. You might as well grind and or learn with a mech that cost nothing to repair. This means each win or loss is a profit. I did this grind with the Med trial mech and did not take long to get a Jenner. Please don't expect to grind in a trial mech to get an Atlas.

I do not agree with letting people customize the trial mech from the get go. However if PGi does decide to go that route, I really hope they will just make available the Jenner. But I am sure people will just complain about that too.

I swear when did this world turn away from Work = Reward?

[AtomicFrawg]

Mahotsukai, on 31 October 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

oups sorry the end of the post was lost...

"free" units in other games are sponsored by higher lvl players - who paid and now pwning low lvl units, who can not even scratch them
hopefully this is not the case with Mechwarrior - "low" lvl Jenner can kill Atlas
so no no to the free low lvl Mechs - it will kill the interest to use higher lvl Mechs

and it will be bad for business - now you either grind or pay
good free mech = no intence to pay

Well, see a Trial mech has just a good of a chance on the battlefield than any other mech. If new player would not just run head long out in the open or into enemy mechs Solo, they would have a fighting chance.
If you do this with an Atlas your result would be the same.

[Mahotsukai]

AtomicFrawg, on 31 October 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Well, see a Trial mech has just a good of a chance on the battlefield than any other mech. If new player would not just run head long out in the open or into enemy mechs Solo, they would have a fighting chance.
If you do this with an Atlas your result would be the same.

that is what I am saying - MWO is not like the others games, it does not need the free "normal" mechs
Trials suxx, they arent customizable and dont have the AMS and might mislead the new player - but they are ok to start

[Kirkland Langue]

Well, during CB - I argued that the Trial Mechs should be ENJOYABLE. They not only should "not be bad", but should actually be excellent builds.

1. This would lead players to actually PLAY the new mechs, instead of suicide rushing just to gain the C-Bills.
2. This would lead new players to actually ENJOY their first 20 games, instead of just looking back and realize that they did nothing more than suicide rush to grind C-Bills.
3. This would actually ENCOURAGE people to buy real mechs because regardless how good a fit it was, players would still want to tinker with it and the trial mechs don't give xp so you could never maximize its potential without getting the skills.

Obv my sentiments fell on deaf, marketing, ears.

[-Seneschal-]

Rip Calkin, on 31 October 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

If you really don't like the game, I don't blame you for walking away.

Just do all of us who do enjoy the game a favor:

Don't whine and gripe so much on your way out that you make the game less fun for others. Just go away as you've stated you intend to do.


Troll!

BAD *hits with newspaper*. He didn't come here to feel better, he came here because he cares about the game developers losing business and you should too. Look, the answer isn't even to give free players free stuff, it's to make the trial mechs competent and keep the players long enough to make them want to spend a few bucks on the game. It's called customer retention, and we who love this game should all care deeply about it, because that's what keeps the families of the developers eating good food in clean clothes.

You're a founder (I just gave beta feedback, your buy in was noble) and we should all be thankful to you for shelling out to make this game as good as it is, but we also have to consider the end market which isn't restricted to the die-hard fanbase. I'm not trying to be adversarial, I could care less about the grind because I already know how it'll be when I earn my cicada and my atlas back. I'm already hooked but we are losing A LOT of people before they even know how much MC a mech costs because the trial mechs are horribad.

Cheers,
Greg.

Edited by GregHM, 31 October 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[Arcturious]

At the moment, the biggest issue is more player skill and the pug / premade problem rather than the trial mechs.

You should be jumping into any mech and having so much fun that you don't even notice the time go by. Before you know it, you have 2million in the bank and you didn't notice "the grind".

I've been playing roughly every second game in a trial mech to do a small part to level the playing field. Yet I still find if I get a decent team I can get 2-3 kills. That's the exception obviously, normally lots of assists because I'm running around... well assisting people. Not many realise it but you get more cash and exp for assists + spotting than you do kills.

If however you have a few bad games - up against a superior premade team or even just a group filled with founders etc, you will not have fun. Most players from the closed beta have hundreds to thousands of games under their belt. Even in trial mechs they will still roll new players.

I don't think there is any issue at the moment really that time won't fix. A better matchmaker and some more experience in the cockpit will resolve the whole "trial mech" perceived issues.

Plus remember this game is around for the long haul. Even if you find it a grind now, take a break and come back in a month. Play a few more games. Take another break etc. It's a persistent world now and you will keep all the cash you earn. One day you will look at the hundreds of millions of c-bills in your inventory and wonder what you are going to do with it all.

[Vechs]

They should give all accounts a free Centurion. The Centurion is the mech that PGI officially said was a good starter mech, you can use all 3 types of weapons on it and figure out what you like, and astute players can use a 2x Medium Pulse Laser zombie build to really grind credits with cheap repairs (only repair the CT).

I think it's a perfect starter mech.

Edited by Vechs, 31 October 2012 - 12:34 PM.

[-Seneschal-]

Vechs, on 31 October 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

They should give all accounts a free Centurion. The Centurion is the mech that PGI officially said was a good starter mech, you can use all 3 types of weapons on it and figure out what you like, and astute players can use a 2x Medium Pulse Laser zombie build to really grind credits with cheap repairs (only repair the CT).

I think it's a perfect starter mech.

This is good if you are willing to give away a 'mech. otherwise buff heat sinks

[AtomicFrawg]

Mahotsukai, on 31 October 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

that is what I am saying - MWO is not like the others games, it does not need the free "normal" mechs
Trials suxx, they arent customizable and dont have the AMS and might mislead the new player - but they are ok to start

Here is the thing. If they were customizable, then what would be the purpose of earning c-bills to get the exact same class mechs?

Seriously trial mech is bad because of no AMS??? You don't need an AMS. What the pilot needs is to stay out of the open and learn to use cover. They need not to learn to rely on a crutch like an AMS.

I find the Trial mechs are setup good. Granted they might not be up to the flavor of the week build. For Free, if piloted right, they will hold their own. Plus no repair bill = profit win or lose.

And come on, 20 or so matches is not that bad. Hell if a person is struggling with a mech after 20 matches, maybe this game is not for that person.

[Flump]

How long do F2P players have to grind in trial 'mechs to be able to start customizing elite variants of their favourite 'mechs?

Should there be a C-bill incentive for players who choose to buy light or medium 'mechs for their grinding, rather than using trial 'mechs?

I believe the battle earnings (C-bills and XP) should be structured so that;
- if a player buys the cheapest light 'mech available (currently a Commando) as soon as they can afford it, that player should earn enough extra C-bills per battle that, after deductions for repairs, and covering the initial purchase price, they will earn enough to buy a heavy or assault 'mech sooner than a player grinding in trial 'mechs (regardless of win/loss ratio).
- if a player continues in trial 'mechs until they can afford a medium, they may still earn their way into an assault 'mech sooner than a player in trial 'mechs, and into a heavy just as soon.
- in either case, the player should be earning XP at such a rate that it becomes a difficult choice between saving for the heavier 'mech, or purchasing further variants of the currently owned 'mech and working towards customizing an elite variant.

After all, there should be more of the cheaper 'mechs in any given battle, right? Who's paying for all these trial Awesomes to be thundering about on suicide runs?

[Zeliwin]

Hey,
The problem with trial mechs is that they lack firepower, and are high on heat. On desert maps forget about doing any damage, you overheat so much it just takes the fun out of the game. I like the trial mech idea, to learn the mechanics of the game. But they are way to limited, and it takes way to much time to be able to purchase your own mech. This is a no-fun factor, I've already lost interest in this game, It has no more fun in it for me. But since I love Mechwarrior, I am here to tough it out and try to help as much as I can. But if I was a regular player, I would of left by now. This being the sole reason.

Edited by Zeliwin, 31 October 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[SL the Pyro]

AtomicFrawg, on 31 October 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Here is the thing. If they were customizable, then what would be the purpose of earning c-bills to get the exact same class mechs?

Seriously trial mech is bad because of no AMS??? You don't need an AMS. What the pilot needs is to stay out of the open and learn to use cover. They need not to learn to rely on a crutch like an AMS.

I find the Trial mechs are setup good. Granted they might not be up to the flavor of the week build. For Free, if piloted right, they will hold their own. Plus no repair bill = profit win or lose.

And come on, 20 or so matches is not that bad. Hell if a person is struggling with a mech after 20 matches, maybe this game is not for that person.

This person wins a cookie.

Customizing Trial 'Mechs? if that were possible, people likely wouldn't ever buy a real 'Mech. It's not only stupid from a business standpoint because there would literally be no reason whatsoever to buy MC, but also from an in-game standpoint since half the gameplay would go ignored.

Anti-Missile System? The only reason you'd ever need this is if you're going at 48.6 KPH or less. Anything else will readily be able to reach cover in time or just plain outrun incoming LRMs. Hell, even the Trial Dragon DRG-1N, a Heavy-class 'Mech, has a max speed of 81 KPH fresh out of the Mechlab.

And for the love of criminy, people need to stop assuming the Trial 'Mechs are bad simply because they lack Heat Sinks or decent weapons: the problem isn't the Heat Sinks or the weapon set, it's how you're using the weapon set. Even an Assault 'Mech loaded with 40+ Heat Sinks and nothing but two Large Lasers will overheat after continuous fire simply because the lasers are that f***ing hot. But this in no way implies that they're bad: most of the trial 'Mechs actually have decent weapon sets (I mean holy sh**, a Large Laser on a Light!?), you just need to learn how to use those weapons effectively. And if you still overheat, so what? Sometimes it's worth shutting down for a few seconds, especially if the overheat-causing attack kills the 'Mech you were aiming at.

The Trial 'Mechs don't just exist for poor people, they exist so you can learn about the game, and the best way to do that is to jump in with other players. If you wonder about what's the best way to play whatever Trial 'Mech you're using, don't be afraid to ask those players for instructions and directions.

Edited by SL the Pyro, 31 October 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[SmithMPBT]

World of Tanks takes ages to earn enough XP and cash for a Tier 10 tank. Ive played a couple nights a week for over a year or more and still don't have one. Yet its still like the number one F2P game. It has a wicked tedious grind but people want cool stuff and they'll either pay to save time, or grind their hearts out to get out. Thats the F2P model. Oh and WoT has no ingame Community Warfare either. (don't bother mentioning the webmap)