103 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

The bug where upgrading your Mech to DHS did not actually convert your Engine heatsinks from singles to doubles has been noted, addressed, and the Nov. 6th patch will bring their cooling rates up closer to 0.2 heat/sec (exact numbers pending). There will also be a second heat fix.

That Command Chair thread has been locked, so we can use this Discussion thread for Discussion.

Firstly, I'd like to congratulate everyone who didn't say that PGI is too obtuse to adress/fix the engine HS or boldly threaten to quit if they left engine HS as they are.

Secondly, I'd like to say that this will be changing gamelay significantly beyond where the first "introduction" of DHS in their current [bugged] state took us. A great benefit will go to Light Mechs for they store most of their HS in the engine, but Assaults might now be adding bigger weapons, too... Also, a big benefit I see for Energy Assaults is the ability to drop the XL engine and use DHS to save weight, instead.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 30 October 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

I think we can kiss heat management goodbye once people buy the upgrade, which is unfortunate.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Solis Obscuri, on 30 October 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

I think we can kiss heat management goodbye once people buy the upgrade, which is unfortunate.

Well, we can also kiss some of that double armor goodbye, too... DHS means more pewpew and more dakkadakka. It will probably mean less ska-thuuuummm, since dakka will look more attractive, but I dont't expect to see any reduction in wooosh.

[gregsolidus]

Sounds nice, hopefully weapon heat will be given a once over next.

[EtherDragon]

Solis Obscuri, on 30 October 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

I think we can kiss heat management goodbye once people buy the upgrade, which is unfortunate.

Hardly, even with fully functioning DHS in the engines - fire rates are such that you build up lots of heat over time, even with DHS during continuous fire.

[Vactus]

I'm Vactus Ka-Sun and I approve this message. Honestly, DHS will help out in a lot of ways, but it isn't the miracle cure some people want. Not sure a stock AWS will still be very useful. However, we'll see what happens.

[DragonsFire]

Solis Obscuri, on 30 October 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

I think we can kiss heat management goodbye once people buy the upgrade, which is unfortunate.

Eh, someone not able to properly manage their heat is most likely still going to run into issues anyways, just have a bit of a higher initial tolerance.

[Yokaiko]

Solis Obscuri, on 30 October 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

I think we can kiss heat management goodbye once people buy the upgrade, which is unfortunate.

If you build the mechs like today, true. Fact is double heatsinksstill mean that the weapons are producing at least 1.5 times the heat that they did in the tabletop. So hot builds will still be hot builds, just easier to manage.

[Starstryke]

Actually one of the major changes I see for assaults is that combined with endo steel it makes very large standard engines attractive. Heavily armed, reasonably fast, and no XL engline. I am going to have some fun in my atlas.....

[Random Numbers]

Now if they would just fix the issue with the netcode and light lag amor plus do a seriously weapon balance pass things might start to look up. Of course that's if they don't nerf the bejesus out of heatsinks with this patch because they deem that they're "too good" now

[Obeast]

Prosperity Park, on 30 October 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Well, we can also kiss some of that double armor goodbye, too... DHS means more pewpew and more dakkadakka. It will probably mean less ska-thuuuummm, since dakka will look more attractive, but I dont't expect to see any reduction in wooosh.

I am really going to have to nominate that for best post ever. That was hilarious!

[Calmon]

This means 4xLRM 20 on my Awesome... I need to play a lot to show LRMs OPnes

Edited by Calmon, 30 October 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[Hot Rod]

Prosperity Park, on 30 October 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

The bug where upgrading your Mech to DHS did not actually convert your Engine heatsinks from singles to doubles has been noted, addressed,

and thats the point why they didn't bug for me, because i sold the old engine first, upgraded to dual heatsinks and THEN bought the new engine.

[Norris J Packard]

Hot Rod, on 30 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

and thats the point why they didn't bug for me, because i sold the old engine first, upgraded to dual heatsinks and THEN bought the new engine.

No, they were still bugged. I did that trick too to see if it was an issue with the build order, but no, nothing changed.

[Hot Rod]

Norris J Packard, on 30 October 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

No, they were still bugged. I did that trick too to see if it was an issue with the build order, but no, nothing changed.

then how the heck i could field 8 MPL and a ML in a HBK? The Mech was running cool for 1 minute chainfire and he had only 3 (i think) "non" engine heatsinks mounted. It stated 26 hs in the overview (260xl). I couldnt use the mpl in the single hs setup so my thought is that they were not bugged like for 99% of the playerbase.

Edited by Hot Rod, 30 October 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[J4ckInthebox]

Quote

Well, we can also kiss some of that double armor goodbye, too... DHS means more pewpew and more dakkadakka. It will probably mean less ska-thuuuummm, since dakka will look more attractive, but I dont't expect to see any reduction in wooosh.

Sorry for killing the joke, but i didn't find out what "dakkadakka" and "ska-thuuuummm" were supposed to be.

[Overlord Klein]

Prosperity Park, on 30 October 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Well, we can also kiss some of that double armor goodbye, too... DHS means more pewpew and more dakkadakka. It will probably mean less ska-thuuuummm, since dakka will look more attractive, but I dont't expect to see any reduction in wooosh.

Very well put, good sir.

[Corbon Zackery]

The TT system allready takes care of the issue you can't have it all on a mech. Hardpoints are messing this TT system up a bit. because its allowing laser mechs like the Jenner to use all of the upgrades. since you only need 4 to 6 slots for energy and 2 ct slots for missles.

You lose slots for both FF and Endo then you burn 6 more for xl eng. That leaves you with 13 slots for weapons and heat sinks say you add 2 double heat that 6 more slots for 4 heat sinks

So the TT system thats in the mech lab prevents this type of boating unless your playing a light laser based mech. Eng. heat sinks rule of thumb is every eng. gives 10 free heatsinks so just setting a starting cap of 10 and letting people add afterwards is a good thing to do. I dont think you want to allow people to change out eng heat sinks with double that would give most people 20 heatsinks to start out with and cut down on heat overloads during the game.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Solis Obscuri, on 30 October 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

I think we can kiss heat management goodbye once people buy the upgrade, which is unfortunate.

Never going to happen. Even using Table Top Values, probably 90% of the TRO mechs required some pretty hefty heat management. Take a Marauder 5D for example. 2 ER PPCs, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, 1 Lg. Pulse Laser and 1 S.SRM2. 16 double heat sinks for a total of 32 heat dissapated per round.

This stock config produced 50 heat alphas so even under TT rules you counldn't manage more than maybe 1/2 your load out firing each round.

So even with double heat sinks actually working like double heat sinks we still have weapons firing 3x the rate they did in TT which means....yep you guessed it.....heat will still have to be very carefully managed on 90% of the builds out there.

Also keep in mind that the maximum amount of DHS that can be mounted (aside from those residing in the engine) is 12 and that is ONLY if you don't need those critials for weapons, endosteel, FF armor or XL engines. Realistically most people won't be able to mount more than probably 6 DHS beyond those in the engine.

I did some experiementing with mechbuilder program and I think the most heat capasity we will see is the abilty to sink about 40 heat every 10 seconds. The translates into being able to not quite render ONE (1) ER PPC heat neutral. Add a couple medium lasers to that and your going to still be risking overheat inside of 30 seconds of firing.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 30 October 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Calmon, on 30 October 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

This means 4xLRM 20 on my Awesome... I need to play a lot to show LRMs OPnes

I forsee a K2 in my near future.